So, i've been hearing things about Guild Wars 2...

Monsterfurby

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Well, my dear Watson (that's the captcha), I...

No, let's do this properly.

For the past few weeks, I've been cobbling together a few bucks here and there from my overstretched student budget to be able to afford Guild Wars 2 in good conscience (without exceeding my self-set budget).
Browsing through the hallowed sites of the internet lately, though, I stumbled upon a few rather critical voices. Suddenly, it appears that large parts of the game are called "empty" where it was considered overloaded before, and other criticisms about the lack of an end-game emerge.
Before I spend money on GW2, obviously, I would like to be certain it is worth it, so here's my call to all friendly GW2 players out there: what is the game like right now? How long have you been playing? Are there any elements you enjoy particularly, or that you are growing bored with?

Looking forward to your responses!
 

SajuukKhar

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I really liked guild wars 2...... until I beat it.

the game is fun and all, but once you are don with the content, there is no reason to keep playing.

Arena Net's "we don't want players to grind" philosophy kinda backfired because there is no need to grind for end-game gear, because stuff you can buy is just as a good.

There really isn't anything to work for.
 

FalloutJack

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The truth is that I'm not really that dedicated an MMO player, not like my girlfriend. RTSs, MMOs, ETC. - she's very good. I get on these things and I get off of them. When I got us GW2, I was delighted to know that it was just one blessed payment to inherit this massive world. So far, I have delved somewhat, and I've taken a break, but I expect to get back on it because the Charr are awesome.
 

Monsterfurby

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FalloutJack said:
The truth is that I'm not really that dedicated an MMO player, not like my girlfriend. RTSs, MMOs, ETC. - she's very good. I get on these things and I get off of them. When I got us GW2, I was delighted to know that it was just one blessed payment to inherit this massive world. So far, I have delved somewhat, and I've taken a break, but I expect to get back on it because the Charr are awesome.
You sound like you have a similar approach as I do. I don't have all day to dedicate to the game, more like two or three hours during the week, more on weekends, and I really need to see some degree of success to keep me coming back.

I see SajuukKhar's point too, though. Shouldn't the PvP / WvW work as end-game content? How does that look?
 

FalloutJack

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Monsterfurby said:
FalloutJack said:
The truth is that I'm not really that dedicated an MMO player, not like my girlfriend. RTSs, MMOs, ETC. - she's very good. I get on these things and I get off of them. When I got us GW2, I was delighted to know that it was just one blessed payment to inherit this massive world. So far, I have delved somewhat, and I've taken a break, but I expect to get back on it because the Charr are awesome.
You sound like you have a similar approach as I do. I don't have all day to dedicate to the game, more like two or three hours during the week, more on weekends, and I really need to see some degree of success to keep me coming back.

I see SajuukKhar's point too, though. Shouldn't the PvP / WvW work as end-game content? How does that look?
Again, I'm not really big into MMOs. Do you know what I like to do in 'em? Explore and kill things. It's going to take me a while to get to any supposed end.
 

Monsterfurby

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Again, I agree. I don't really participate in high-level stuff as much as I like to just think I will have the possibility should I ever get there. Most MMOs I played in the past I managed to stay engaged in up until level 35 or so (which took me several months each time), which is when you reach the point where gameplay progress grinds to a halt and my attention span couldn't sustain the grind.
 

Maeshone

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The thing about Guild Wars 2 is that there is no endgame grind for gear. Gear plataeus pretty much immediately at level 80, and the only gear hunt is for items with unique looks. Instead, the idea is that people keep playing the game because, shock and horror, they are enyojing the content. I love it. The SPvP is great, vista hunting and jumping puzzles distract me for hours at a time and I haven't even started doing explorable dungeons yet.

All in all, if you get Guild Wars, don't think you're getting another WoW. Guild Wars 2 is a very long way away from that type of MMO.
 

Norrdicus

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Monsterfurby said:
Suddenly, it appears that large parts of the game are called "empty" where it was considered overloaded before
Well it's certainly not the same as my experience has been. You'll more often than not find another player if not a handful during most dynamic events, and if you bother to ask for assistance in map chat, you'll soon find a lot more

Although some areas do feel empty at 8 o'clock in the morning during weekdays. Hmmm, can't imagine why
 

Scarim Coral

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I have been playing the game since launch but my progress has been slower compared to others because I have been playing 5 characters at once (I have a job but most of my free time are spent toward that game). A the moment my chracters had reach over level 50.

So far I am still enjoying the game but in saying so I was a fan of the first Guild Wars game and GW2 is a huge improvement compared to the first. While I do love the game but sometime I do find it a chore trying to get 100% on a area which can take a couple of hours to do.

Technically there are few endgame stuff like completing the dungeons again but taking alternative routes and some rare gear but those are not madatory to do or get.
 

Jandau

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SajuukKhar said:
I really liked guild wars 2...... until I beat it.

the game is fun and all, but once you are don with the content, there is no reason to keep playing.

Arena Net's "we don't want players to grind" philosophy kinda backfired because there is no need to grind for end-game gear, because stuff you can buy is just as a good.

There really isn't anything to work for.
Yeah, but did you have fun doing the content? If yes, then isn't that enough? The game doesn't have a sub fee that keeps milking you. Your argument would be valid for a sub-based MMO, but for a one-time purchase it's not really applicable.

From a consumer perspective, if the game was fun and had plenty of content to go through, then it's money well spent, right?

From ArenaNet's side of things, they aren't counting on you subbing for years and years, so they don't mind if you leave.

So where exactly is the problem?
 

General Twinkletoes

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SajuukKhar said:
I really liked guild wars 2...... until I beat it.

the game is fun and all, but once you are don with the content, there is no reason to keep playing.

Arena Net's "we don't want players to grind" philosophy kinda backfired because there is no need to grind for end-game gear, because stuff you can buy is just as a good.

There really isn't anything to work for.
Is that a bad thing?
You stop playing when it stops being fun, cool. They don't need to keep you, you don't need to stay. People keep complaining about lack of endgame, but they got dozens, possibly hundreds of hours of entertainment.
OT: Like I said, it's not a massive endgame experience. Don't treat it like one, and make sure not to rush to 80, you'll ruin it. Just have fun exploring maps and doing events.
 

Rawne1980

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Righty ho.

Guild Wars 2 has very little character progression. There is no amazing gear you get from spending hours in dungeons or PvP. All exotic armour is pretty much the same just with stat variation and different look.

At 80 you have very little choice on what to do. WvW, sPvP and dungeons .... that is it.

WvW isn't what I thought it would be. Someone told me it was like DAoC so I purchased GW2 without looking into it more (I loved DAoC).

It is nothing like it. WvW is instanced battlegrounds. There are 4 maps but only 2 variations. The borderlands maps are all exactly the same just the towers, keeps and camps have different names. Eternal Battlegrounds is the larger one but once you hold certain towers you can treb the castle and once you own the castle you can treb a lot of the towers making siege defense pointless.

It got boring, fast.
 

Monsterfurby

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Thanks to all who have answered so far, this is helping me tremendously in forming an opinion about the game. The truth is: I loved DaoC. I loved being swept up in this sense of contributing to something that is larger than oneself or even one's potential guild. I didn't like WoW's PvP system because it felt like Counter Strike, and from videos, I get the feeling that WvW in Guild Wars 2 might be the closest digital gaming might get to things like major [http://www.kreiszeitung.de/bilder/2010/08/06/868717/747038137-conquest-mythodea.9,c;1iE;0;ouS;q0U;28Xa1C.jpg] LARP battle events (re: other things I spend time and money on).

What I gather seems to be that there is a major disconnect between those rushing to the maximum level and those taking their time. The former seem to be disappointed by the perceived lack of content, while the latter are quite happy with how alive the world feels and how much there is to do. Never having been someone to rush through a game like this, I probably fall squarely into the second category, yet I wonder: Is there enough of a sense of progression that "slower" players will still feel motivated? Also, to those who say that they have grown bored with the game: how long did you play before that happened?
 

TheBelgianGuy

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I feel GW2 is a casual, easier mmorpg for people like me who don't have the time and patience to kill 500.000 random mobs just to get that one piece of armour.

And, NO MONTHLY FEE! Good god!
 

Norrdicus

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Monsterfurby said:
Never having been someone to rush through a game like this, I probably fall squarely into the second category, yet I wonder: Is there enough of a sense of progression that "slower" players will still feel motivated? Also, to those who say that they have grown bored with the game: how long did you play before that happened?
What kind of progression are we talking about?

Stat progression? I have no doubts that anyone could easily buy the 2nd best tier gear the moment they reach level cap, and the best stuff isn't that much more prowerful, so there's not much of that.

Visual progression? Tons of it, especially after you reach level 80. Granted, your options are somewhat limited until level 35.

Game content type progression? A whole lot until you reach level 35 with the introduction of Explorable (aka Hard) Dungeons, then it's sorta samey until you reach level 70 and you find areas with absolutely massive amount of Dynamic Events and 0 traditional quests, plus the level 70+ areas themselves finally turns up the open world difficulty to appropriate, "stay on your toes" levels.

Class gameplay progression? Quite fast until you unlock your elite skills a bit after level 30, then you'll keep refining the tricks given to you, possibly changing it up at levels 40 and 60 because you get access to new passives that can have serious effects on skills

Also, 300-hour player here with 2 characters (one of them max level) and my journey's far from over
 

BloatedGuppy

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Monsterfurby said:
What is the game like right now?
It's an excellent game, and excellent value for the money. There are, of course, some caveats, which we'll cover below.

Monsterfurby said:
How long have you been playing?
Closing in on 250 hours.

Monsterfurby said:
Are there any elements you enjoy particularly, or that you are growing bored with?
The game is extremely rewarding to explorers, and the size and detail of the world makes it a good playground for the RP crowd as well. It's one of the best PvP MMORPGs on the market, so it appeals to killers. Achievers? Ehhhh...

Monsterfurby said:
I loved DaoC.
GW2's WvWvW was indeed inspired by DAoC, and shares many qualities with it.

Monsterfurby said:
What I gather seems to be that there is a major disconnect between those rushing to the maximum level and those taking their time. The former seem to be disappointed by the perceived lack of content, while the latter are quite happy with how alive the world feels and how much there is to do. Never having been someone to rush through a game like this, I probably fall squarely into the second category, yet I wonder: Is there enough of a sense of progression that "slower" players will still feel motivated? Also, to those who say that they have grown bored with the game: how long did you play before that happened?
And here's where we reach our caveat. GW2 is not content light by any stretch of the imagination. The world is huge, and full of activities. The issue that achievement focused people are running into is that very little of the content is gated behind grind, and what IS gated behind grind is cosmetic and optional (and the grind for that stuff is, frankly, ludicrous). So there's no drag chute impeding their process. They play their 200-400 hours, cap out their progression, say "what now?" and storm out. There is no infinite progression treadmill in GW2 as seen in WoW and EQ and other games of that ilk. No tiering of gear, no incremental bumps in stats that allow you to progress to the next raid, so you can get more incremental bumps in stats. You hit 80. You spend a week or two getting your exotic gear. Presto...you are as statistically powerful as you will ever be. Some people HATE this. I quite appreciate it. It comes down to human psychology. You can chase a carrot forever, or you can eat the carrot. In the former situation it always feels like you've got something to do, even though you're really doing nothing. In the latter situation, you get to do something, but then the carrot is gone. You pick your poison.

It is notable that "lack of infinite progression" is not the only charge that can be leveled at the current "end game", however. There are some other problems afoot, and they are as follows.

1. The game is BUGGY AS FUCK. This is not as apparent at lower levels, where the content was more rigorously tested, but it breaks with hilarious regularity at higher levels, with DE's constantly stalling out, and skill points disappearing and preventing map completion. It's gone past the point of "understandable for a new game" and into the realm of "ANET WAT R U DOING FFS". They release a patch "fixing" broken events, and within a day or two the events are all broken again. It's becoming worrisome.

2. The "end game" zones (the game employs level scaling, which is...fitfully successful...so technically there ARE no end game zones...although realistically there are), specifically the three zones that compose Orr, are...less than optimal in their current state. Bugs, as listed above, contribute to this. But the zones are just an almighty slog as well. Constant respwans of undead every few feet means you'll fight like a dog to get anywhere, and then again to get back. What at first feels sinister and challenging eventually feels routine and exhausting, and the fact it's a single enemy type for three zones (an enemy type you will already be WELL familiar with) means combat fatigue sets in really quickly. Those who want to "play optimally" and farm spend most of their time here, with the expected negative impact on their fun.

3. The dungeons are not particularly well designed. Without the trinity, they lack the simple elegance of WoW's dungeons...the carefully tuned encounters and trash packs. It feels a bit willy nilly, to be honest. Scrambly, and not always in a good way. They are occasionally punitively difficult, as well, with questionable rewards, so if you're a risk/reward oriented person you will swiftly come to wonder what the point of it all is. That a single dungeon can easily end up eating several hours has been my major reason for avoiding them at this point.

4. WvWvW is FUN AS HELL, until it isn't. Specifically, when you get into a bad matchup, which will happen, as your matchups change every week at the moment. Last weeks' matchup was brilliant. This week? We are getting pounded, and I just look at the current state of things and think "Ugh, why bother", and play alts instead. On that note, pick your server carefully. Most will do well in one bracket or another, but there are a couple of perpetual weak sisters who just get dominated in the bottom bracket all the time.

5. The personal story isn't very personal (or very good). It starts out alright, if a tad campy, but by level 50 you'll become acquainted with an asshole named Trahearne. This poorly acted piece of cardboard will HIJACK YOUR STORY, and you will spend the last 30 levels participating as his toady in the "Adventures of Trahearne". Yes, this is technically spoilers, but it's rubbish, really, and I don't feel bad about spoiling rubbish. Better you be prepared, and have your expectations low.

ALL THAT SAID, I have had a great amount of fun with this game, and feel like I've had my money's worth many times over. As an RPG, or a game, it's a great buy. As a lifestyle replacement for the sort of person who wants to play their MMO for 5+ hours a day for 5 years, it has some issues that need sorting. Gird yourself for some bugs and some bad storytelling, and you'll do alright.

If you have any other questions, ask away.
 

Vegosiux

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SajuukKhar said:
I really liked guild wars 2...... until I beat it.

the game is fun and all, but once you are don with the content, there is no reason to keep playing.

Arena Net's "we don't want players to grind" philosophy kinda backfired because there is no need to grind for end-game gear, because stuff you can buy is just as a good.

There really isn't anything to work for.
Nothing new in the GW franchise...if you only want stats and min-maxing, then yes, you're done quite soon. If you want looks, though...My character looks quite good by now, but there are still plenty of skins I want that I'll have to grind some more for.

Then there's the jumping puzzles. By Grenth, the jumping puzzles. I am reasonably convinced that Anet is secretly evil and wants to take over the world.

But indeed, if you go into GW2 just to consume the content, you're gonna have a bad time.

Oh, of course I have complaints about the game (lousy story, show-stealing vegetable with no personality, more bugs than Beetlejuice manages to chomp throughout his series...), but, eh, lack of content isn't one of them.

Oh, and, ever played Oblivion? Well, "We don't have outhouses" is to GW2 what "I saw some mudcrabs the other day" is to Oblivion.

Oh yeah and finally, a mumorpuger I can get some decent roleplaying in, too.
 

Monsterfurby

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Thank you all for your opinions so far. Let's see..

* Bugs - I can handle bugs. Bloody hell, I worked on the DS port of Legend of Kay. Talk to me about bugs.

* Cheesy Story - That's kind of sad, but it's alright. Guild Wars wasn't really a game you played for the immersion. Also, as long as it's *entertaining*, I suppose bad voice acting is okay.

* WvWvW - Lots will happen to this, I expect. It's a MMORPG in its first year, I am willing to cut it some slack.

Now here is what scares me though: GW2 is obviously a game that lives and dies with its playerbase. Not necessarily in an economic sense, but in a very real gameplay-sense. No players, no dynamic events. Reading through the GW2 forums, there seems to be an overwhelming sentiment of either "The game feels dead now" and "It's not dead, but most players are concentrated in high-level areas".

Both of these alternatives sound pretty scary when they concern a game one is thinking to just now get started with. How do lower-level areas look? Does level scaling actually encourage some activity there?

Vegosiux said:
Oh yeah and finally, a mumorpuger I can get some decent roleplaying in, too.
What!? Tell me more!
 

Lunar Templar

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i didn't dislike it, but its not something i'd pay full price for, it'd be more an impulse purchase when its down to like $20 or so
 

TheLazyGeek

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It's evened out a bit since launch. On my server (Henge of Denravi) the population has spread out so areas aren't as busy, but at the same time, during "off-hours" it's quite empty. I've only played a little over 400 hours and managed one 80, but that's me. Also in the same time I've yet to fully explore the whole open map/world.

And people keep talking about end-game like idiots because they can't wrap their mind around the fact that there really is none. It's more like a RPG that you can play through multiple times (choosing a different race/class and all). There's no monthly fee so end-game is pointless since that's how subscription MMOs keep their claws in you. Or talons. Or hooves, maybe?

Anyway, game is great and fun, even if playing alone (not in a party) because there's a likely chance you'll run across someone else doing the same thing as you so you can tag along, in a sense.