So what was wrong with the old Dante?

[Hectix777]

OH MY GOD! SHUT THE F$#% UP!!! I am so sick of hearing everyone bitching about "new" Dante! "Oh his hair is black""He smokes""He's an emo!" SHUT UP! Y'know WHY Dante has black hair? It's because he's not a full demon yet! He's a half demon so he's not gonna be born breathing fire and speaking in tongues. Men aren't born we go through puberty, half demons aren't born they fall into it! Dante has black hair because he is young, this is before he reaches full demonification with the white hair...

Sorry if I offended anyone I just needed to prove a point so feel free to prove my post wrong.

While I do agree this is not a big deal, I think your statements of fictional facts as if they were an absolute truth is kind of funny... As far as I know, half-demons can be born breathing fire, speaking in tongues and with a 6ft tail that fells off when they reach puberty... Because they DOESN'T exist.

Yeah well in some cases its a half breed thing late bloomers and all that. Hehehehe, this means this Dante hasnt gone through demon puberty... Anyway if Dante is more mortal than mystic it is totally possible for the demonification to be a progression like a disease almost.

 

[cgentero]

I'm pretty sure he was in his early twenties in DMC3. Going by the manga (canonically before DMC3), he and Vergil are already adults, and Dante had had his demon-hunting business for a while before he had enough money to buy that office.

And your second reason isn't even an argument.

Eva dies when he was eight, the DMC3 manga takes place ten years after so he is 18, then 19 in DMC3, as in still a teenager. My second argument is that even if he didn't look like his DMC3 self in the prior years he would still not look that different, demonic puberty or not.

EDIT: Again I'm not as concerned about the look so much as the overly serious vibe the trailer and interviews gave off.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Ninja Theory will still be making the game, the people who made the abysmal action titles Heavenly Sword and Enslaved. Its safe to say everything would NOT be good, if it was the Dante that millions of fans love.

Heavenly Sword was very well-received and sold well. Enslaved was critically well-received. Capcom claimed that both of those titles were partial reasons why they went to Ninja Theory in the first place.

So...forgive me if Yahtzee's opinion doesn't sway me. I don't see the problem.

I'm pretty sure he was in his early twenties in DMC3. Going by the manga (canonically before DMC3), he and Vergil are already adults, and Dante had had his demon-hunting business for a while before he had enough money to buy that office.

And your second reason isn't even an argument.

Eva dies when he was eight, the DMC3 manga takes place ten years after so he is 18, then 19 in DMC3, as in still a teenager. My second argument is that even if he didn't look like his DMC3 self in the prior years he would still not look that different, demonic puberty or not.

Where are you getting the "ten years" from? TV Tropes says it, but I don't know where they got it from.

Why would he be going through "demonic puberty" of any kind? I was under the impression he chose to look like that...but again, no real details.

EDIT: Again I'm not as concerned about the look so much as the overly serious vibe the trailer and interviews gave off.

I suppose...but frankly, it's made me more curious than anything. I've liked the serious aspects behind all the games (though I wish they'd put more details into DMC4's game, rather than leaving stuff for the novels, like Nero being "blood of Sparda" by virtue of being <color=aliceblue>Vergil's illegitimate son).

 

[cgentero]

Where are you getting the "ten years" from?

There's a scene in the manga where Arkham talks to Vergil about a woman who was killed by demons ten years ago, it's not stated outright that he is talking about Eva but from the context it is obvious.

 

[NickFury90]

Ninja Theory will still be making the game, the people who made the abysmal action titles Heavenly Sword and Enslaved. Its safe to say everything would NOT be good, if it was the Dante that millions of fans love.

Heavenly Sword was very well-received and sold well. Enslaved was critically well-received. Capcom claimed that both of those titles were partial reasons why they went to Ninja Theory in the first place.

So...forgive me if Yahtzee's opinion doesn't sway me. I don't see the problem.

The problem is they aren't very good.

Heavenly Sword was shallow, content-less piece of shit - they spent TWO YEARS getting to that combat system and that was the result. They admitted in interviews they think it was a deep combat system. When you're that detached from reality, it tells me you don't have what it takes. And it too frequently had a bad framerate.

And they made Enslaved - a game that frequently ran at 20fps or less, had one of the worst combat systems I've played with in the last decade of video game releases, awful handholding platforming with no challenge whatsoever, and one of the worst endings I've seen in awhile.

So...you have a team who makes crappy action games with bad framerate, input lag, shallow as a puddle combat systems...and now they're making Devil May Cry, a game that LIVES on a 60fps, incredibly deep and incredibly response combat.

Like, it would actually be kinda hard to find a worse developer team then this.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Ninja Theory will still be making the game, the people who made the abysmal action titles Heavenly Sword and Enslaved. Its safe to say everything would NOT be good, if it was the Dante that millions of fans love.

Heavenly Sword was very well-received and sold well. Enslaved was critically well-received. Capcom claimed that both of those titles were partial reasons why they went to Ninja Theory in the first place.

So...forgive me if Yahtzee's opinion doesn't sway me. I don't see the problem.

The problem is they aren't very good.

Heavenly Sword was shallow, content-less piece of shit - they spent TWO YEARS getting to that combat system and that was the result. They admitted in interviews they think it was a deep combat system. When you're that detached from reality, it tells me you don't have what it takes.

As did a shitton of other people. Mass delusions abound, I suppose.

And it too frequently had a bad framerate.

And they made Enslaved - a game that frequently ran at 20fps or less, had one of the worst combat systems I've played with in the last decade of video game releases, awful handholding platforming with no challenge whatsoever, and one of the worst endings I've seen in awhile.

I've also heard conflicting opinions, though I haven't played this one.

So...you have a team who makes crappy action games with bad framerate, input lag, shallow as a puddle combat systems...and now they're making Devil May Cry, a game that LIVES on a 60fps, incredibly deep and incredibly response combat.

Like, it would actually be kinda hard to find a worse developer team then this.

We'll see, I suppose (eventually, I don't think a release date has been announced). I have trouble believing that.

 

[NickFury90]

Capcom also believed that the entirety of DMC2 was a good idea, so this wouldn't be the first time they were completely tone-deaf for a good direction of the series. All I can go on so far is the trailer(with the abysmal character design), the small amount of interviews(where the developers show contempt for the fans or the history or the series), and the developers resume with the action genre(which is to say, not very good at ALL). We'll see some actual gameplay at E3, but right now...shit aint looking too bright.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Capcom also believed that the entirety of DMC2 was a good idea, so this wouldn't be the first time they were completely tone-deaf for a good direction of the series.

DMC2 was a good game. It wasn't as good as the other three, but it was still a good game.

Also, isn't it a bit disingenuous to call Capcom "tone-deaf" regarding the series because of 2, considering how DMC3 turned out?

 

[NickFury90]

Capcom also believed that the entirety of DMC2 was a good idea, so this wouldn't be the first time they were completely tone-deaf for a good direction of the series.

DMC2 was a good game. It wasn't as good as the other three, but it was still a good game.

Also, isn't it a bit disingenuous to call Capcom "tone-deaf" regarding the series because of 2, considering how DMC3 turned out?

We obviously differ on what classifies as a "good game" if you think DMC2 was anything over complete mediocrity.

And no, Capcom aren't COMPLETELY oblivious to making good DMC games. I'm just saying, I wouldn't be completely surprised if this turned out to be a bad Devil May Cry game, shunned by the majority of critics and fans alike. They've done it before!

 

[NeutralDrow]

Capcom also believed that the entirety of DMC2 was a good idea, so this wouldn't be the first time they were completely tone-deaf for a good direction of the series.

DMC2 was a good game. It wasn't as good as the other three, but it was still a good game.

Also, isn't it a bit disingenuous to call Capcom "tone-deaf" regarding the series because of 2, considering how DMC3 turned out?

We obviously differ on what classifies as a "good game" if you think DMC2 was anything over complete mediocrity.

Obviously. I found the voice acting atrocious, the camera wonky, the lack of an extra melee weapon mildly disappointing, and the combo system hindered by the inability to cancel movements, but basically everything else decent-to-good.

And no, Capcom aren't COMPLETELY oblivious to making good DMC games. I'm just saying, I wouldn't be completely surprised if this turned out to be a bad Devil May Cry game, shunned by the majority of critics and fans alike. They've done it before!

<url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_May_Cry_2#Reception>Devil May Cry 2 reviewed and sold pretty well, actually. People just complained about it.

 

[NickFury90]

I aware Devil May Cry 2 sold pretty well. As did Sonic 2006, so its not like sales are this real beacon of quality.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Vanity aside it would be nice to not have a protagonist who isn't a caucasian guy with short dark hair, we have lots and lots of those...

Yeah, who cares about their personality, or their character. Its all about the way they look - they need to lookk weirdly abstract and stupid for them to be good. Thats why every movie that hasn't featured a bizarre looking character as the main protagonist has been appalling. Sorry Citizen Kane, don't care about your character depth, come back when the lead is an albino with an afro.

I see your point but it does get a little samey after a while. Dante stood out from the crowd and now they have made him just the same as all the others bit of a shame really. Your extreme example aside they could at least make a blonde short guy or an african american woman or something else as a lead protagonist for once, not for DMC obviously but for other games. Citizen Kane is an awesome film but you wouldn't want the same actor appearing in every film ever.

 

[Penitent]

Someone will need to explain to me just why this Dante is so irreversibly different. The only change is that instead of having a head full of white hair, he has a side-cut head of black hair. Is there really anything more than that?

 

[MisterMaster]

Someone will need to explain to me just why this Dante is so irreversibly different. The only change is that instead of having a head full of white hair, he has a side-cut head of black hair. Is there really anything more than that?

He smokes, he's anorexic and he just looks like a goddamn crackhead.

 

[SalamanderJoe]

This topic always gets me giggling. The die-hard fans seem to jump to conclusions before sitting down and thinking:

This is a prequel. He is a young buck being a rebel. (smoking, getting arrested and emo haircut) He will most likely gain his white hair and his classic coat when his powers come through when his Mum is killed by demons and sets out on vengence against Hell or something.

Anyway, I've mentioned this a couple of times on here, but I met a Ninja Theory art director at my University after he did a talk. We got chatting about some projects like Enslaved, and then the new DMC, and he said to me, and I quote, "our original design was like the old Dante, but Capcom turned it down. Said they wanted it to be new and be a bit different."

So before you crazy-die-hard fans go mad, just sit down, have a cup of tea and think for second: it's before all the 4 games, and he looks like this for a reason. And failing that, don't blame Ninja Theory, blame Capcom for actually wanting to bring something new to a decade old series.

[sub]P.S. I'm not being a downer, I'm just looking at it from an intelligent angle rather than just a visual judgement. That and I like the DMC games. Even DMC2. Kind of.[/sub]

 

[rmb1983]

Dante's overall aesthetic has always been a Hot Topic reject that mopes about listening to metal while complaining about a lack of things to do.

While that's true, he's had an aesthetic of a Hot Topic reject that we tend to love, because it showcases a certain affinity for style; he's always had a fairly "classic" look. It was effective because of his attitude.

Dante followed that formula of "it's really cool for the hero to be bored by villains and to act aloof while listening to heavy metal music". AKA douchebag.

He took that attitude with everyone he met, not just the demons he was inevitably facing down. Granted that given his past, there's a pretty good reason for him to feel disconnected and invariably superior to just about anything he comes across, but I digress.

So before you crazy-die-hard fans go mad, just sit down, have a cup of tea and think for second: it's before all the 4 games, and he looks like this for a reason. And failing that, don't blame Ninja Theory, blame Capcom for actually wanting to bring something new to a decade old series.

The problem with that is that it's entirely within the realm of possibility to breathe new life into the character's look without deviating so painfully from the source. Dante's aesthetic has always conveyed a specific sort of style; they're not changing him up, they're rebuilding him from the ground up, and not in a good way. "Not in a good way? How so?", you ask?

Excuse me, Tameem. Don't you have to be busy making Dante your self-insert *****? Seeing as how you're the director, and all?

Anyways, I wouldn't have bitched about it if it weren't for the fact that he made Dante a self-insert and that they can't design fun gameplay to save their lives.

How so, indeed.

He smokes, he's anorexic and he just looks like a goddamn crackhead.

The bolded portion is the reason it's such a monumental, challenging and just plain off-putting leap. Every time I see the pictures of the "new Dante", I keep trying to find his track marks. I'm not sure how one goes about fighting demons (demonic blood or not) with a crippling drug addiction, but I imagine it wouldn't work out all that well. For Dante, that is.

All that aside, the aesthetics aren't the real issue in this, just a stepping-stone to the real problem. If they're willing to make this big a change to an iconic character, what else are they going to do away with? The Devil May Cry series has always been known for fun, fast, fluid, stylish and very responsive combat system. Ninja Theory's track record does not possess any of these qualities, even in small amounts. That's my real worry; not how different he looks. Hell, I dislike Mario, but I've still enjoyed pretty much every Mario game because they were fun.
E3's going to be the real judge for how things are turning out, but as far as it looks at the moment, it really doesn't seem promising.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

I don't like the new design. I mean, i don't know if they're going to change his actual characterisation but he always was a typical cheesy action hero and he looked like it. The Devil May Cry games always were silly, flashy action games, making Dante look like some angsty Teenager doesn't really fit that style.

 

[Sudenak]

You know, I was gonna comment on the rest of the post (and the fact that you clearly just use "douchebag" as a synonym for "badass," rather than any kind of descriptive insult), but then you kindly summed it up.

This is so utterly ludicrous it defies description. Since you also claim you've played at least a little bit of DMC3, you also know it's completely wrong. That, or you stopped paying attention the instant Dante picked up the phone in the first cutscene and never started again. Either way, I suspect this can't go anywhere.

I could argue that you were using "badass" interchangeably with "douchebag", too. You see, what I find badass, you probably wouldn't find badass. But just because you think he's badass, doesn't mean that I think he is.

And what do you expect? I played half of one game. During that half of one game, he was a dickweed wearing reject Hot Topic clothing that acted like a Hot Topic shopper acting out for attention. All he needed was a cutscene of him reading bad poetry to complete the full douchebag shopping list.

This entire topic is to complain about his updated look. Everyone's complaining that his new look is just douche incarnate. I can't see the problem because he always looked like a douche.

You are a fan. As such, you see a badass, unique character that had growth and a wonderful story arc. A character with depth and a truly lovable personality.

I am not a fan. I saw a douchebag that was as original as the entire goth subculture that did nothing to draw me in and couldn't keep me interested enough to finish the game. And I beat Quest 64, a game which had a barely dangling plot consisting of a few lines of text and an abysmally repetitive list of gameplay. DMC 3 had a chance to pull me in, and it failed. Telling me that I would feel more for Dante if I slogged through his entire series doesn't really mean that I'm convinced.

After all, this entire topic is just to take the new Dante at face value. It's not about his character. Nothing has been fleshed out. It is purely to look at him and go "douche". That is the only reason. As such, you shouldn't be so offended by me looking at the old Dante at face value and calling him "douche". It is no different than what this topic is doing.

 

[Mortons4ck]

It's not that the new Dante looks like a "douche" so much as he looks like a teenage runaway who turns tricks behind the 7-11 to feed his meth habit.