So what's anime like these days?

[Story]

Lately, I've been hanging out with my friend and we've been taking turns watching a show we each enjoy. I show him a movie or a show and he shows me a movie or a show that he enjoys.

Now, I considered myself an anime fan. My favorite anime of all time is Princess Tutu and my favorite movie period is Princess Mononoke. So far I've shown those to him and also The Cat Returns another Studio Ghibli film. Later I plan to show him some Satoshi Kon films like Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, and Paprika. The next series I have planned is either something short we both haven't seen yet or Gankutsuou: the Count of Monte Cristo. Take note that these are all old.

My friend on the other watches way more anime than me (and reads way more Manga). So far we've watched his favorite show No Game, No Life then Re:Zero and Konosuba. Take note that all of these are very new shows. I found all but one to be pretty mean spirited and the fan service distracting. Which I feel bad about, I want to continue watching shows with him because I enjoy his company and the discussion of them after even if our tastes differ. But he feels discouraged and I wonder if the problem is me being very much out of the loop when it comes to main stream anime.

So I ask this to my fellow anime Escapist fans out there, are shows like No Game, No Life and Konosuba typical of anime these days? Am I being overly sensitive here? Or is it just the fact that he and I have different tastes? What do you recommend for the both of us to watch?

 

[Story]

New anime sucks, for the most part. Too much pandering and visual novel/manga adaptations. They barely even make big movies and OVAs anymore. All that's left for me to do now is rewatch those I liked (I watched Totoro and Howl again this month.) and dig up the few worthwhile oldies I haven't seen yet.

One of the main reasons I don't watch anime anymore is the animation styles. Even if someone managed to produce an interesting story, it would be ruined by shitty new art styles and clean animation.

Spoiler

I like how characters used to be more angular and shaded. I'm tired of all the generic noseless, chinless, big-eyed, jawless, crazy-haired, lipless, skinny, lanky character designs. It's shit.

The old:

The new:

Jaws have become cones and noses have been reduced for easier animation. The sad thing is, Motoko from Stand Alone Complex is one of the better examples of modern anime designs. Most are even more generic and don't have lips.

Why are the men such pretty boys now?

They used to be masculine.

You're probably thinking, "Hey, Monster isn't that old." But it's based on a manga that started in '94. If someone gave an anime studio the story of Monster now, without any visual references, the product would end up looking as bland as almost any other anime. Hell, they wouldn't even adapt it before inserting younger characters and fanservice.

When the men did lack details, their faces still often managed to have character.

Why are the women such dead-eyed waifu material?

What happened to designs like this?

I miss lovable characters like this:

And expressive characters like this:

Characters used to resemble humans.

Now they look like aliens.

This is bland:

Art styles were more distinguishable, which added to their charm.

The following could be mistaken for a dozen other shows. It's as bland as it gets.

It's like all the artists go to the same bad animation school now.

Eh. I can't say that animation styles bother me too much. I mean my favorite is Princess Tutu and the quality of the animation in that is not very good to put it lightly. You used Princess Mononoke and Paprika as examples which is neat as well as Monster, but I don't expect everything to look like that. I do like the subtle styles of Wolf Children, the look of Stiens;Gate and even the exaggerated alien look of things like Shiki.

It's not even animation I'm concerned about its...tropes? I think. I don't find prevey pranks very endearing or funny at all. In fact, its the fastest way of getting me to not like the character. Maybe it's fanservice? It has been so long I'm not sure if it bothered me back when I kept up with the stuff. I think the fact that many are based off of light novels have something to do with it mayhaps?

Real shame about the OVAs and Movies. I like a good snippet of story every once in a while.

 

[Story]

I mean my favorite is Princess Tutu and the quality of the animation in that is not very good to put it lightly.

Princess Tutu has a good art style, though.

I'm glad you think so. I do too. But I wouldn't be surprised if people were turned off by the animation, Princess Tutu's is very "economical" but it uses what it has as part of its strengths.

What are your thoughts on the styles of Gankutsuou: the Count of Monte Cristo or No Game, No Life?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

All the series you list are some of the best, but not entirely typical. They are meta series which play with overused tropes in new ways such that they become superior despite belonging in those genres.

Re:Zero was amazing for me and you can clearly see how the protagonist being an otaku and having a lot of otakuish themes and terms pop up is an aspect of this. They go into pretty deep analysis but to get the depth you have to have seen tons of anime already and get what they "really" are talking about. Rem became an all time favorite of many people due to her char development in that series and how she and the protagonist Subaru relate. If you failed to appreciate this part of the story (which makes grown men cry) I would just suggest that this type of thing isn't your cup of tea.


When you say "mean spirited" I have to ask what you mean. Some can be dark, of course, but not especially more so than anime of the past at all.


Konosuba on the other hand is more like a satirical take on the genre that sword art online is a member of, it tackles the tropes of the genre with humor but of course, to get the most out of it you need to be somewhat familiar with what it is that the show makes fun of.

 

[RaikuFA]

Only anime I watch is Jojo's Bizzare Adventure. Go watch that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Current anime has become addicted to its own tropes, to the point where you just don't feel like you're watching actual characters inhabiting an actual world. This is what Miyazaki meant when he said otaku (hardcore fans) ruined anime; It's all become about pandering to the tastes of the harcore fans, which means tropes. It means giving them their waifus and tsunderes, and never exposing them to anything that might burst their fantasy bubble.

I rewatched Golden Boy ('95) recently since a long time, and I was surprised by how much more "real" that show felt compared to nearly all anime made currently. And may I remind you this is a rather skeezy show with scenes like this:

Spoiler

I'm also very biased towards post-digital anime. As soon as anime stopped being produced with handpainted cells it lost a lot of its visual texture. Feature length movies can still get around this through sheer production values, but TV shows not so much. Even with One Punch-Man -- a current anime I actually like and which has a lot of great visual scenes -- it's still hard for me to ignore the ugly digital colouring. Add to that the homogenized designs from the past couple of years and there's very little to be visually impressed by in anime.

 

[sageoftruth]

Well, the quality of animation has gone up and the quality of dubbing has gone WAY up. Everything else I'll leave to the aficionados to discuss.

 

[Story]

All the series you list are some of the best, but not entirely typical. They are meta series which play with overused tropes in new ways such that they become superior despite belonging in those genres.

Yes I think that's part of my problem as well. I haven't watched Sword Art Online, Log Horizon, or any other kid comes from another world shows. The last one I watched was Digimon Frontier...a decade ago. So those tropes aren't "overused" to me. On the flip side another one that subverted this trope is Now and Then, Here and There which I watched on my own and liked quite a bit. So maybe that isn't the case?

Re:Zero was amazing for me and you can clearly see how the protagonist being an otaku and having a lot of otakuish themes and terms pop up is an aspect of this. They go into pretty deep analysis but to get the depth you have to have seen tons of anime already and get what they "really" are talking about. Rem became an all time favorite of many people due to her char development in that series and how she and the protagonist Subaru relate. If you failed to appreciate this part of the story (which makes grown men cry) I would just suggest that this type of thing isn't your cup of tea.

I was cynical of Re:Zero at first but by the end I really, really enjoyed the show. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that the show shifted into more and more of physiological thriller and drama as the show went on. I love dramas, and I did end up liking Rem's character a lot (but I didn't cry I think I might have gotten used to high drama after watching things like Grave of the Fireflies and Now and Then, Here and There). However, I loved the MC Suburu and his flaws and strengths even more. My favorite part of him is the fact that he has this idealistic view of Emilia and that he admits to his own selfishness but is ashamed of it.

When you say "mean spirited" I have to ask what you mean. Some can be dark, of course, but not especially more so than anime of the past at all.

Dark humor and themes like that in Re:Zero are interesting to me that's not what I mean. By mean spirited that I find the humor in shows like No Game, No Life and Konosuba to be unfunny and troubling. For example both of the main characters in those shows are the straight men and the smart ones but they are also jerks to nearly everyone else. Side characters are comic relief because they are demeaned and criticized for their flaws but at the same time they are never encouraged to over come them. Since you know Konosuba I'll use that example, though to be fair nearly everyone is a jerk in that show. I really had to question why the MC in that stole the sword of the knight that offered to take care of Aqua? They said he was a narcissistic jerk but he really didn't come off that way. Yet they steal and sell his sword? I get that it was poking fun of the typical chivalrous hero trope but there had to have been a way to do it to not make that MC seem like an ass. And then there is the sexual humor. I don't understand how its funny to demean someone by taking their panties and then blackmailing and bragging about it.

Are these types of things typical in new anime? Again I am I being too sensitive?

Konosuba on the other hand is more like a satirical take on the genre that sword art online is a member of, it tackles the tropes of the genre with humor but of course, to get the most out of it you need to be somewhat familiar with what it is that the show makes fun of.

Yeah again I think that's part of the problem.

 

[Dansen]

Its in a frustrating place, there are a lot of interesting ideas being thrown around especially in the light novel adaptations but for whatever reason the writers feel they need to shackle themselves to certain pandering tropes in order to appease the Otaku market.

A show I have recently been taken with is "Tanya the Evil".

It takes place during an alternate history WW1 where magic is real. Mages, while few in number are fast and powerful. They are kind of analogous to tanks in WW2 in terms of their mobility, firepower and durability. The main character is a child soldier loli though, but don't let that turn you off. There has been no fan service involving her and the adults around her don't fawn over her but consider it terrifying that a ten year old girl is fighting a war. I wont spoil the second episode twist(although I'm sure most synopses include it), but I recommend it for the time being, its pretty entertaining and while I'm not sure it will go anywhere it is something different enough from the norm to intrigue me.


You should also check out Mob Psycho 100, it pretty damn funny with a unique animation style.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Yes I think that's part of my problem as well. I haven't watched Sword Art Online, Log Horizon, or any other kid comes from another world shows. The last one I watched was Digimon Frontier...a decade ago. So those tropes aren't "overused" to me. On the flip side another one that subverted this trope is Now and Then, Here and There which I watched on my own and liked quite a bit. So maybe that isn't the case?

Those anime are more like .hack than a spirited away style story. They're basically VR MMOs where you live inside the game.

Now and then was really good and doesn't require quite as much outside knowledge as stuff like no game or konosuba do so it's easier to enjoy.

I was cynical of Re:Zero at first but by the end I really, really enjoyed the show. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that the show shifted into more and more of physiological thriller and drama as the show went on. I love dramas, and I did end up liking Rem's character a lot (but I didn't cry I think I might have gotten used to high drama after watching things like Grave of the Fireflies and Now and Then, Here and There). However, I loved the MC Suburu and his flaws and strengths even more. My favorite part of him is the fact that he has this idealistic view of Emilia and that he admits to his own selfishness but is ashamed of it.

Right, if you enjoyed it that much, I can be hopeful in that if you take your time and watch stuff you'll end up enjoying it. Yeah, Subaru is a good MC because of how useless he is. All he has is his save points. Other than that he's a normal dude struggling against super-powered folks. That it goes as bad as it does for him over and over is obvious but in a lot of shows wouldn't expect it and the way he initially expects to have some sort of super power highlights that gap even more.

Dark humor and themes like that in Re:Zero are interesting to me that's not what I mean. By mean spirited that I find the humor in shows like No Game, No Life and Konosuba to be unfunny and troubling. For example both of the main characters in those shows are the straight men and the smart ones but they are also jerks to nearly everyone else. Side characters are comic relief because they are demeaned and criticized for their flaws but at the same time they are never encouraged to over come them. Since you know Konosuba I'll use that example, though to be fair nearly everyone is a jerk in that show. I really had to question why the MC in that stole the sword of the knight that offered to take care of Aqua? They said he was a narcissistic jerk but he really didn't come off that way. Yet they steal and sell his sword? I get that it was poking fun of the typical chivalrous hero trope but there had to have been a way to do it to not make that MC seem like an ass. And then there is the sexual humor. I don't understand how its funny to demean someone by taking their panties and then blackmailing and bragging about it.

Are these types of things typical in new anime? Again I am I being too sensitive?

You are a little sensitive or nitpicking minor issues too much I think, yeah. Especially the sexual humor stuff, that's just sexual humor and jokes at being a perv. The one being made fun of in that scene is the one stealing the panties, not the one who had their panties stolen. Of course, to newcomers it'll just seem bizarre and whatnot.

Maybe watch the Monogatari series, it's one of my all time fav and will give you a lot of food for thought. It has psychological, folklore and humor elements and a lot of the kind of anime weirdness where after you finish all the various series in the monogatari name you will be impervious to being weirded out. They managed to make a toothbrush dirty in that show lol. Also, based on your mentions earlier, I'm sure your friend would love to watch that with you.

 

[Story]

Current anime has become addicted to its own tropes, to the point where you just don't feel like you're watching actual characters inhabiting an actual world. This is what Miyazaki meant when he said otaku (hardcore fans) ruined anime; It's all become about pandering to the tastes of the harcore fans, which means tropes. It means giving them their waifus and tsunderes, and never exposing them to anything that might burst their fantasy bubble.

Its in a frustrating place, there are a lot of interesting ideas being thrown around especially in the light novel adaptations but for whatever reason the writers feel they need to shackle themselves to certain pandering tropes in order to appease the Otaku market.

I think this is just it. I totally understand that Otaku's are the general market, maybe that's why I have a hard time relating. I can't really relate to Otaku's and their tropes all that much. I don't watch a lot of anime I don't usually find common tropes funny when they are shown or insightful when they are inverted. Also great point Casual Shinji, I'd much rather have an interesting world than one of cliches, I do sometimes feel like some characters in those shows don't act like real people which made it hard for me to be emotionally invested in them. Figuring out who is the most attractive/endearing girl or boy is uninteresting to me. After our hanging out session my friend said that we may have different tastes because he's a boy and I'm a girl, however...

I rewatched Golden Boy ('95) recently since a long time, and I was surprised by how much more "real" that show felt compared to nearly all anime made currently. And may I remind you this is a rather skeezy show with scenes like this:

Spoiler

...see now that's really funny to me. Why is that amusing but things like this make me roll my eyes? Maybe I'm being a hypocrite?

Spoiler: For context this character used a Steal gaming ability to steal this girl's underwear, the one who taught him the spell.

A show I have recently been taken with is "Tanya the Evil".

You should also check out Mob Psycho 100, it pretty damn funny with a unique animation style.

Thanks, I'm going to ask my friend if he's willing to watch Tanya the Evil I'm going to watch Mon Psycho 100 on my own time since I know he's already seen it.

 

[Fox12]

Lately, I've been hanging out with my friend and we've been taking turns watching a show we each enjoy. I show him a movie or a show and he shows me a movie or a show that he enjoys.

Now, I considered myself an anime fan. My favorite anime of all time is Princess Tutu and my favorite movie period is Princess Mononoke. So far I've shown those to him and also The Cat Returns another Studio Ghibli film. Later I plan to show him some Satoshi Kon films like Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, and Paprika. The next series I have planned is either something short we both haven't seen yet or Gankutsuou: the Count of Monte Cristo. Take note that these are all old.

My friend on the other watches way more anime than me (and reads way more Manga). So far we've watched his favorite show No Game, No Life then Re:Zero and Konosuba. Take note that all of these are very new shows. I found all but one to be pretty mean spirited and the fan service distracting. Which I feel bad about, I want to continue watching shows with him because I enjoy his company and the discussion of them after even if our tastes differ. But he feels discouraged and I wonder if the problem is me being very much out of the loop when it comes to main stream anime.

So I ask this to my fellow anime Escapist fans out there, are shows like No Game, No Life and Konosuba typical of anime these days? Am I being overly sensitive here? Or is it just the fact that he and I have different tastes? What do you recommend for the both of us to watch?

It sounds to me like your taste is very similar to mine. I think you appreciate the art form of anime. In that case, sadly, yes. Those shows are representative of modern anime. Most shows nowadays are either highschool romcoms or about NEET gary stu's being whisked away to a magical land where they're perfect. All of them have lots, and lots of fan service. I actually kind of liked Konosuba just because its a parody of modern anime. A loser gets sent to another world, and he's still a loser.

If you want a list of modern anime you can both enjoy then there are options that would probably appeal to both of you. Madoka Magica is still "newish," and I think both of you would enjoy it. The Boy and the Beast and Wolf Children are the newest films by wonderful film maker Mamoru Hosoda, who made films like The Girls Who Leapt Through Time and the best part of The Digimon Movie. Little Witch Acadamia is a sweet show, if your okay with goofy family films/shows. The first two films have already been released, adn the first season of the show is about to be released. It's basically anime Harry Potter. Makoto Shinkai's Your Name is blowing critical and commercial audiences away, and is poised to be one of the biggest anime films ever. You can watch his other films as well, since he's a pretty modern director with a strong arteur streak. While not an anime, you may enjoy Shin Godzilla. It was written and directed by Evangelion creator Hideaki Anno, and is a very thoughtful film about the state of modern Japanese society. There's still great stuff being made, you just have to look a little harder.

Edit: Oh, and if you're attracted to the art style of Monte Cristo, then you'll probably love Madoka. That studio is famous for its avante garde art style. Don't look into it too much, though. The less you know about the plot, the better.

Spoiler

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

snip

As someone who grew up with anime (of course those fondly loved shows such as Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, Studeio Ghibli ext) and over the course of the past year has picked anime up again well...

I do think the overall quality has gone down, or the focus has changed. You just don't see anime with the production values of Cowboy Bebop. That being said, it's not a total loss. Maybe I'm looking at the past with rose colored glasses and there was actually just as much crap back then as there is now.

Konosuba, while enjoyable for its own merits [footnote]it's actually sometimes as much of a parody of modern anime as it is modern anime.[/footnote], is IMO the lowest common denominator. Before you give up hope though, there is still some absolutely fantastic anime out there. In particular, check out "One Punch Man" ,"My Hero Academia" and perhaps "Food Wars!: Shokugeki no Soma" if you can't get into one of these, then perhaps modern anime isn't for you.

As Fox12 above stated, I'll also second Boy and the Beast and Wolf Children. Those films were every bit as brilliant and nostalgic as I remember.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Also great point Casual Shinji, I'd much rather have an interesting world than one of cliches, I do sometimes feel like some characters in those shows don't act like real people which made it hard for me to be emotionally invested in them. Figuring out who is the most attractive/endearing girl or boy is uninteresting to me. After our hanging out session my friend said that we may have different tastes because he's a boy and I'm a girl, however...

I can't be sure, but I suspect the trope heavy trend we've seen in anime for the past couple of years has everything to do with merchandizing. Anime on its own really doesn't make that much money anymore, so they need to find profits elsewhere. I mean, when you look at characters in anime from the past few years they all look like they were designed specifically to sell figurines.

I rewatched Golden Boy ('95) recently since a long time, and I was surprised by how much more "real" that show felt compared to nearly all anime made currently. And may I remind you this is a rather skeezy show with scenes like this:

Spoiler

...see now that's really funny to me. Why is that amusing but things like this make me roll my eyes? Maybe I'm being a hypocrite?

Spoiler: For context this character used a Steal gaming ability to steal this girl's underwear, the one who taught him the spell.

It's the creative process behind it. Golden Boy is a pretty shallow, skeezy anime, but it's presented with such creative animation and charismatic energy that it just works.

Spoiler: Just some of the lovely animated facial expressions in Golden Boy.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[bluegate]

With all the ridiculous fan service and weak characters who are basically walking cliches found in a lot of popular anime, I have pretty much stopped identifying as a person that likes anime because I wouldn't want to be mistaken for a person that enjoys those kinds of anime.

I mean, when they start doing frivolous breast jiggles, crotch, breast and ass shots in Digimon movies, then well, I'm not sure what to say aside from that I don't wish to fuck Lilimon or Angewomon, or any other Digimon that resembles a human female, for that matter.

I only stick with select movies and series lately, I now usually just stop watching shows when they start throwing out too much fan service, because I really don't want to buy a body pillow of my waifu, I just want an entertaining story paired with entertaining art.

 

[Fox12]

I mean, when they start doing frivolous breast jiggles, crotch, breast and ass shots in Digimon movies, then well, I'm not sure what to say aside from that I don't wish to fuck Lilimon or Angewomon, or any other Digimon that resembles a human female, for that matter.

Whoa, when did this happen? I thought digimon was still a children's show?

 

[09philj]

It's genre cinema. Some of it is simply just great genre cinema. Some of it is just crap genre cinema. Some of it is unusual and experimental genre cinema. Some of it is genre cinema on meth. You have to hunt for the good stuff, but it is there.