Socialism: Good or Bad?

[Mcface]

The nazi bit was a joke, because I see one of these threads every 3 days.

Socialism is not good. Why should I have to give someone something just because they were too lazy to get it themselves? This guy is just as capable of working as I am, yet he doesn't. Then I am expected to help him? It's bullshit.

 

[SonicKoala]

The Nazis were socialists.

thats all I have to say.

No, they weren't. They called themselves a socialist party, but their methods can hardly be compared to socialism in any way. Hitler hated socialism.

Weren't they more like communists?

No, Germany under the Nazis was essentially just a fascist dictatorship. Basically, that's what the USSR was too - neither Germany nor the USSR ever practiced the ideologies that they claimed to follow.

 

[hamster mk 4]

Socialism is not bad for certain aspects of the economy, but converting the entire economy to socialism would be a bad idea. Mainly Socialism is a word that can be used to frighten rich old people into action.

 

[Vuljatar]

It is bad precisely because "all people within a society come out equal", no matter what they do. There is no incentive to make yourself worth anything if you'll get the same rewards by sitting around doing nothing.

Socialism makes achievement pointless, because anything you gain will be stolen from you by the government and given to people too lazy to earn it themselves. Aside from this being morally reprehensible, it's also simply a bad idea to give the government too much power over your life when you are entirely capable of taking care of yourself.

 

[Avaholic03]

Wow, there are a lot of misconceptions about socialism flying around this thread. Looks like propaganda won in straight sets.

In a perfect world, socialism would work. But in our world, with corruption, greed, laziness, etc. it just don't work. However, bringing some socialist ideas into a free market economy can be a good idea.

 

[Gladlygoose]

to quote from the Wikipedia article:

Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.



I think that the reason people "hate" socialism in the US is the same reason they hate Communism: Rich people get shafted. So in response to Socialism the various super rich indiviuals used their power and influence to make the less rich people hate Socialism (Similar to kings and nobles convincing the serfs/peasants that having kings and nobles is actually in benefit to said serfs/peasants [though we all know that in most cases this is not true]). At least, that's my uneducated opinion.

After reading the comments so far, it seems that most people don't actually know what Socialism is and are usually confusing it with some twisted version of Communism (which they also don't seem to know much about).

 

[Spitfire175]

No civil rights and compulsory military service are not tenants of socialism. Do your research. Hitler's regime was a totalitarian regime. He had all the power - socialism is a system that stresses equality. Hitler hated that idea - that's why he hated the USSR.

Remind me again how was the USSR governed? Oh yeah, right. A single party state, totalitarian regime, the socialist redivision of property, people forced to serve in the red army and the leader hated jews. The verybigboss also exterminated all of his political rivals. That sound familiar?

Or let's take foregin policy. Makin treaties with another totalitarian state, invading and occupying smaller neighbouring countries? Whoopsie. Which totalitarian socialism driven state we were talking about again?

 

[Captain Pancake]

There's nothing inherently bad about socialism, it's just something that people aren't used to, and that garners a certain degree of animosity. In the 19th century, britain was very anti-socialist, yet now we have embraced that element to a degree.

The Nazis were socialists.

that's all I have to say.

Actually, they were national socialists, and only in name. they were an extremely right wing party, and they despised communism and to an extent, socialism. If you looked at the nazi's policies, they clearly went against the very doctrine of socialism.

 

[Fbuh]

to quote from the Wikipedia article:

Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.



I think that the reason people "hate" socialism in the US is the same reason they hate Communism: Rich people get shafted. So in response to Socialism the various super rich indiviuals used their power and influence to make the less rich people hate Socialism (Similar to kings and nobles convincing the serfs/peasants that having kings and nobles is actually in benefit to said serfs/peasants [though we all know that in most cases this is not true]). At least, that's my uneducated opinion.

After reading the comments so far, it seems that most people don't actually know what Socialism is and are usually confusing it with some twisted version of Communism (which they also don't seem to know much about).

It is true about the rich people thing. In America, even a little bit of money means you can get a "Do Whatever the Hell I Want" card. For instance, let's examine the Chesapeake Bay. It is highly polluted and many much of the aquaculture is dying. In the 1970's the Japanese took a look at it and said" Give it to us and we could feed the world." Unfortunately, that means taking all of the waterfront property and turning it back into wetlands. Even more unfortunate is the fact that the people who own the waterfront property have a lot of money to ensure that no one takes it away, politically or otherwise.

 

[SonicKoala]

No civil rights and compulsory military service are not tenants of socialism. Do your research. Hitler's regime was a totalitarian regime. He had all the power - socialism is a system that stresses equality. Hitler hated that idea - that's why he hated the USSR.

Remind me again how was the USSR governed? Oh yeah, right. A single party state, totalitarian regime, the socialist redivision of property, people forced to serve in the red army and the leader hated jews. The verybigboss also exterminated all of his political rivals. That sound familiar?

Or let's take foregin policy. Makin treaties with another totalitarian state, invading and occupying smaller neighbouring countries? Whoopsie. Which totalitarian socialism driven state we were talking about again?

I was just pointing out that Hitler hated the USSR on an ideological level, I'm fully aware of the similarities that existed between the two states.

Also, I'd like to point out that there is nothing Hitler did that can compare to Stalin's purges. At the same time, Stalin's anti-semitism was a relatively minor part of his political policies, where as they were essentially the core of Hitler's.

 

[jedizero]

Socialisim leads to communisim.


We've already gone a bit towards socialisim. what with Social security. And right now...this small balance is the best so far.

And the number one reason socialisim won't work.

Our society has grown to the point that we need certain jobs done. People will pretty go "Not it!" Until someone throws enough money at them.

For example: Septic tank cleaners.
Now, under a socialistic society, why would they do that? They'll be supported while they go to college.

Same with Sewer Inspectors, garbage collectors, and all manner of jobs that are dangerous/horrificly smelly.

Would *you* wander through human filth if you could just not do it and be supported regardless?

would *YOU* collect the refuse of the world. Every other morning. If you can just leave the job and still have a home?

Would *YOU* be a plumber. Dealing with the least pleasant human activity on the face of the earth.

You see...everybody who supports Socialisim espouses how "Oh everybody'll have a degree and be sooo smart. You can make it where ever you want!"

But everybody forgets that the jobs we take for granted nowadays... Are very important.

 

[Captain Pancake]

State owned factories, no civil rights, a compulsory army, all key points of Hitler's regime and socialism in practicality.

Get your facts right, please. all the points you stated were autonomous from socialism, they were part of Hitler's policy and his alone. you're getting fascism and left wing ideologies mixed up.

 

[nezroy]

Let's see... do folks in the US like their police, fire, and infrastructure (roads, power, water, etc.)? Because that's all socialism. The US, and every other western capitalist society, is a hybrid of socialism and capitalist principles, applied where each society thinks it best and most reasonable.

The reason socialism was so attractive in the 30s and 40s, and the rise of things like the Nazi party, was due in large part to the complete and utter failure of unrestrained, unhybridized capitalist principles of the early 20th century. The Great Depression was seen, and rightly so, as the sad outcome of fanatical devotion to pure free-markets; one that produced pathological results. Socialism was an attractive alternative that seduced many during this time, but we can see how well that turned out.

So what have we learned from history? That, like with most things, moderation is key when it comes to managing your economy and market forces. Unrestrained fanatical adherence to any single market ideology will inevitably result in turmoil. Rational and sane folks know how to synthesize the successful traits of socialist and capitalist ideology into a functioning modern market system. In fact, this is the very definition of synthesis; out of thesis and antithesis comes a new, more holistic understanding.

Luckily for us, anyone living in a modern western/European nation is enjoying the benefits of an economy that integrates socialism and capitalism at different levels, in different places, where it seems most appropriate for each. Different societies squabble about which is appropriate where, painting either side with huge and inaccurate brush-strokes of improperly used terminology, while conveniently forgetting how much they currently rely on the synthesis of both.

So no, socialism is not necessarily bad, unless you'd rather be living in a "Jungle"-esque world once again, poised on the brink of an economic depression that spanned decades, ending only after radical government intervention in all areas of industry from many nations as part of a war effort that killed millions around the globe.

 

[Spitfire175]

State owned factories, no civil rights, a compulsory army, all key points of Hitler's regime and socialism in practicality.

Get your facts right, please. all the points you stated were autonomous from socialism, they were part of Hitler's policy and his alone. you're getting fascism and left wing ideologies mixed up.

Ahem. Give me one socialist country that doesn't enforce those ideas? That's the whole point. Socialism looks good on paper and propaganda, but in the real world it turns to dung.
And are you suggesting the Soviet Union wasn't a socialism driven country? That would turn every historybook ever written upside down and inside out.

 

[Fbuh]

Unfortunately, socialism and communism only really work in small, isolated communities. A country as large as the US (which is effectively an empire in its own way) would not be able to get it working well. It basically depends entirely upon everyone playing by the rules and being a good boy/girl.

 

[Spitfire175]

I was just pointing out that Hitler hated the USSR on an ideological level, I'm fully aware of the similarities that existed between the two states.

Also, I'd like to point out that there is nothing Hitler did that can compare to Stalin's purges. At the same time, Stalin's anti-semitism was a relatively minor part of his political policies, where as they were essentially the core of Hitler's.

Hitler hated Bolshevism, not socialism as such. He hated the soviet revolutionaries and Lenin's bolshevistic ideas. Hitler joined the national socialist workers party, which was, in 1922, basically a socialist party. It just highlited the "one nation, one language, one country" idea instead of "proletariat of the world, unite".

 

[jedizero]

Unfortunately, socialism and communism only really work in small, isolated communities. A country as large as the US (which is effectively an empire in its own way) would not be able to get it working well. It basically depends entirely upon everyone playing by the rules and being a good boy/girl.

*thank* you. I've said this over and over and over.

Yes. Socialisim can work.
In a small group of like say...20 max.

I got into a *huge* Debate a while back where the 'pro socialist/communist'
Proceeded to insult, berate, and harass anybody who wanted to discuss the faults of it.

He basicly kept on saying "That's not our communisim. That's not our socialisim."

Guy was insane.

 

[Smudge91]

Let's see... do folks in the US like their police, fire, and infrastructure (roads, power, water, etc.)? Because that's all socialism. The US, and every other western capitalist society, is a hybrid of socialism and capitalist principles, applied where each society thinks it best and most reasonable.

The reason socialism was so attractive in the 30s and 40s, and the rise of things like the Nazi party, was due in large part to the complete and utter failure of unrestrained, unhybridized capitalist principles of the early 20th century. The Great Depression was seen, and rightly so, as the sad outcome of fanatical devotion to pure free-markets; one that produced pathological results. Socialism was an attractive alternative that seduced many during this time, but we can see how well that turned out.

So what have we learned from history? That, like with most things, moderation is key when it comes to managing your economy and market forces. Unrestrained fanatical adherence to any single market ideology will inevitably result in turmoil. Rational and sane folks know how to synthesize the successful traits of socialist and capitalist ideology into a functioning modern market system. In fact, this is the very definition of synthesis; out of thesis and antithesis comes a new, more holistic understanding.

Luckily for us, anyone living in a modern western/European nation is enjoying the benefits of an economy that integrates socialism and capitalism at different levels, in different places, where it seems most appropriate for each. Different societies squabble about which is appropriate where, painting either side with huge and inaccurate brush-strokes of improperly used terminology, while conveniently forgetting how much they currently rely on the synthesis of both.

So no, socialism is not necessarily bad, unless you'd rather be living in a "Jungle"-esque world once again, poised on the brink of an economic depression that spanned decades, ending only after radical government intervention in all areas of industry from many nations as part of a war effort that killed millions around the globe.

All i have to say is...i love you for writing this haha. This is exactly what i wanted to say but i'm not brilliant at writing down what i want to.

 

[DrDeath3191]

Pure socialism doesn't reward superiority: if all people are only paid according to their need instead of how well they do, there's no incentive to improve the quality of your work. People who do less make the same as people who do more because both need the same things. Plus, who determines what you need? The government, which will do its best to save money by denying you as many things as possible.

Pure socialism is bad, but mix in a little bit with capitalism and it works just fine.

 

[BarkBark]

Wow, there are a lot of misconceptions about socialism flying around this thread. Looks like propaganda won in straight sets.

In a perfect world, socialism would work. But in our world, with corruption, greed, laziness, etc. it just don't work. However, bringing some socialist ideas into a free market economy can be a good idea.

Well with that said anarchy could also work in a perfect world.
Any government system could work great in a perfect world. But
we want a economic system that works fine for us in a imperfect
world.