Some tips for Squeenix

[Manji187]

So they used an existing and widely successful character as a basis to develop a new lead, and this guarantees she was a rip off? If you bothered to even watch a few clips on youtube. You would notice Lightning differs in many ways from her inspiration. Coincidently, BioWare, who is often adored by people on this forum, are well known for reuse their arch types in similar fashion, yet are hardly ever criticized.

Geez...doesn't anybody read all relevant posts these days? "Rip off" were Legion IV's words...not mine...I even pointed that out in the part you quoted.

My discontent with the matter flows from the fact that FF XIII's PROTAGONIST could've been an ORIGINAL female protagonist. Lightning, whether anyone considers her a good or a bad character, is in essence very much defined by that choice to make her look and act like Cloud. This makes her just that much less original than a completely new character. Even if she does differ in many ways from Cloud, a completely new character would differ even more...and therefore would potentially be that much more interesting. A missed opportunity...

I don't get the Bioware argument. So, because Bioware isn't criticized for reusing archetypes I'm somehow prohibited for criticizing Squeenix? Or do you mean to hold that since it's okay for Bioware to reuse archetypes it therefore must be okay for Squeenix to reuse archetypes? Why put them in the same "box" in the first place and then demand equal treatment? Squeenix is Squeenix, Bioware is Bioware. I am not obligated to link the two.

What I find amusing about this supposed failure of FFXIII is while the game was undoubtedly flawed. It sold quite well, surpassing even Mass Effect 2 if memory serves. Just because you disliked it does not make it an instant flop. People seemingly neglect Square Enix designs games primarily for their Japanese audience while attempting to incorporate elements they can market overseas. Likewise, Mass Effect and Bioshock cater to North America and subsequently do not sell well in Japan.

"It sold quite well". While in itself true, there is really a lot of information that the assertion does not convey. Does this mean that everyone who bought a copy automatically loved the game to death? Maybe there are people who've logged around 3 hours and then let it gather dust for all eternity. Maybe they traded it or sold it (unregistered second-hand sales). All FF's have "sold quite well", but sales figures are a lousy measure for actual quality. Or has FF X-2 been magically transformed into an overall good game because of sales figures? Don't forget to factor in the hype/ excitement/ expectations (possibly followed by disappointments).

If that is not to your interest then play something else. It cannot be made anymore abundantly clear.

Right now I'm more interested in Sakaguchi's Final FantasyThe Last Story and Xenoblade Chronicles....that Wii U purchase is looking more attractive now.

[/quote]

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Now..since you thought it necessary to bring up avatars it's only fair I involve yours. Cloud Strife from FF Advent Children. Fanboy much, perhaps?

Actually, I've never finished FFVII and only watched Advent Children once. I just saw it on a forum and it looked cooler and cleaner than my Jima from Chobits avatar. I tried a Deus Ex avatar, but it just didn't work.

So no, not a fanboy. A fanboy would require me to care enough about the game to finish it.

As for the rest of your arguments, I really don't care. I've made my points, you've made yours. You claim I misunderstood your mini-game point while I was referencing how it worked in earlier and better releases in the franchise.

Honestly, FFXIII is really an apology for FFXI and FFXII. It's more of the style of FFX (yes, a game that is also a teen drama and makes no sense). Still, if you like FFXI better, go play it. That's that. Heck, go play WoW. It's better.

Let's just settle this here: Final Fantasy would be improved ten fold if Eidos Montreal and Sakaguchi teamed up to create an entry.

 

[Defense]

My only tip for Square Enix:
Square Enix, keep doing what you're doing. Although your games all have flaws of their own, I still enjoy your games and I will continue to support you as a company as long as you notice your faults and keep making fun games with characters that aren't half bad.

And yes, I did like the entire cast of Final Fantasy XIII. The worst one was probably Lightning because she was more of a ***** than anything, but all other members don't deserve the hate they get.

 

[linwolf]

Why do people always think that Square Enix needs help. FFXIII sold well and was like by a lot of people that seems like a success to me.

 

[SpaceBat]

-Have the balls to make the protagonist an adult...in more ways than just the legal one. Or, in other words: Basch...not Vaan.

-Don't make another Vanille/ Hope like character ever again

-Don't be making "female" versions of brooding male characters...you know "female Squall" (Paine)...or "female Cloud" (Lightning). If you have problems with strong female characters...get some help from Joss Whedon

- Or in other words: Cecil, not Lightning.
- Agreed completely, especially Vanille. Probably the worst FF character I've ever seen and that's saying something.
- I wouldn't compare Cloud to Lightning. Cloud is still a decent, somewhat multi-layered character, whereas Lightning is excruciatingly painful to watch due to her retardation. Lightning is a failed, shitty character that was inspired by Cloud, not a copy of Cloud.

Also, your first point was enough, actually. Lost Odyssey is probably the best Square-made, FF-esque RPG of this gen.

 

[bjj hero]

I just want an adult for a protagonist. It's not too much to ask as the majority of gamers seem to be adults now.

Having said that Squeenix make a fortune from people who will buy any crap as long as it has FF in the title.

Can we drop FF for a change of pace and make a next gen vagrant story now?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Dear Square Enix,

Please finance more games like Just Cause 2.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Dirty Hipsters

 

[AngelicSven]

My advice to SquareEnix, stop making games and just do everyone's CG work. You know you make so much more money off that anyway. We all know you just want to make movies now, so have at it.

But seriously, their over, done with. Let em' be.

Don't take this as hate, cause it's not. They're responsible for my top 3 RPGs to this day: FF VII, FF IX, and Star Ocean 2. It's just all the people who made the "good" ones left a long time ago and most of the people that work there now don't really want to make games.

 

[mireko]

My advice:

- Don't take yourself so seriously. There's nothing wrong with keeping a consistent tone, but draining all the levity out of the story doesn't make it great or important. It makes it tedious. Worse, actually: once we're bored, we won't feel any of the emotional impacts. Unless you can liven things up a little, it'll be really hard to care about the characters.

- Write better characters. This should be self-explanatory. While I thought XIII was okay [small](and Lightning, Vanille and Fang were fun too)[/small], everyone in it was one-dimensional. People throw that word around a lot, but in this game it really fits. Lightning is brood, Vanille is mania, Fang is.. Australia, Hope is whine and Snow is HERP DERP NAKAMA.

[sub]...Sazh is so boring I forgot to include him until I finished writing all this.[/sub]

I mean, fuck. You were never one for ultra-deep character analysis, but you can still do better than that.

- Make all your main characters female.

- Make battles shorter and more decisive. Reduce HP/increase damage across the board and introduce weakness/resistance systems to more enemies.

- Go turn-based. I liked the combat system in XIII, but after some thought I'd rather you went back and made the fights easier to fully control.

- Bring back grind! Yeah, I said it. One of the things that made XIII annoying was how much of a hassle it was to grind. Just finding the right place was annoying.

- Make all your main characters female. TRUST ME ON THIS.

- Keep the linearity, but bring back the overworld and airships. Tales of Vesperia is a good example of this, go eyeball your contemporaries at Bamco.

- Want to revitalize interest in the Final Fantasy franchise in the West? Make each game extremely controversial. Make harsh, biting remarks about small European nations with every other line. Include an out-of-fucking-nowhere action setpiece where you burn churches and eat the homeless. Go "No Russian" on our asses.

- Have some gimmick. Maybe your protagonist can see the future? Grow fifty feet tall in response to threats? Steal people's memories? Moonwalk?

- Make all your main characters female. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THE JOKE SUGGESTIONS, S-E.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Snip

Am speechless, utterly speechless. I don't know what's more sad and depressing, how you think everything Square does has gone completely over your head,[awkward wording] or maybe you feel pretentiously entitled, thinking you're right when, in fact you are a minority. The FF series is well loved by a huge fanbase. and to this day [redundant]

And I am not even go near your idiotic comparison saying Lightning is a Cloud ripoff.It's something I've heard far to much and if your gonna throw that quote at me I'll throw another one made after it disproving it. [awkward wording]

I think the part that really makes me sad is that judging by your avatar your a fan of guilty gear the greatest game series and games ever made. I thought Guilty Gear players were smarter. Maybe you're just a casual fan.

You do not attack the person's character in an argument. It makes your argument less credible

3/10. Took offensive tone, and there were many grammatical errors and spelling mistake. See me after class.

You sound pretty hurtbutt there, pal. We're just trying to point out how Square should give things more time and attention, and not spend six years hyping up a game that didn't seem to have six years of work put into it. That's all. You don't have to get mad about it. We like the company, we just wanna point out how it could be better.


Square Enix. Make a TWEWY sequel. Do not fuck it up and turn it into yaoi shit. Stop letting Toriyama write your fucking scripts. Give us a real sequel to Parasite Eve, not that cosplay crap for the PSP. Bring back the good characters. Stop hiring such high budget VAs for badly written roles. Let Nomura do what he wants with KH III and FF XIII Versus. It could save your company.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Snip

- Make all your main characters female.
- Make all your main characters female. TRUST ME ON THIS.
- Make all your main characters female. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THE JOKE SUGGESTIONS, S-E.

I hate to break it to you, but:

They flubbed that one already.

 

[mireko]

Snip

- Make all your main characters female.
- Make all your main characters female. TRUST ME ON THIS.
- Make all your main characters female. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THE JOKE SUGGESTIONS, S-E.

I hate to break it to you, but:
-img-
They flubbed that one already.

Ah, see, I had those memories surgically destroyed back in 2004. Point taken.

Still, imagine how much worse it would be if that picture contained Snow, Hope and that third character whose name eludes me. They're going for an all-male party in Versus, and I worry it will turn out like that. Of course, Versus is without Toriyama's involvement (or it will be, when they actually start making the fucking thing), so maybe my worries are baseless.

Then again.. what if XIII's problems were the fault of the other writers as well as Toriyama? What if Nomura suffers a stroke? What if it really does turn out to be Snow, Hope and some tertiary guy for sixty hours? I would honestly rather play X-2.

 

[Defense]

Snip

Am speechless, utterly speechless. I don't know what's more sad and depressing, how you think everything Square does has gone completely over your head,[awkward wording] or maybe you feel pretentiously entitled, thinking you're right when, in fact you are a minority. The FF series is well loved by a huge fanbase. and to this day [redundant]

And I am not even go near your idiotic comparison saying Lightning is a Cloud ripoff.It's something I've heard far to much and if your gonna throw that quote at me I'll throw another one made after it disproving it. [awkward wording]

I think the part that really makes me sad is that judging by your avatar your a fan of guilty gear the greatest game series and games ever made. I thought Guilty Gear players were smarter. Maybe you're just a casual fan.

You do not attack the person's character in an argument. It makes your argument less credible

3/10. Took offensive tone, and there were many grammatical errors and spelling mistake. See me after class.

You sound pretty hurtbutt there, pal. We're just trying to point out how Square should give things more time and attention, and not spend six years hyping up a game that didn't seem to have six years of work put into it. That's all. You don't have to get mad about it. We like the company, we just wanna point out how it could be better.


Square Enix. Make a TWEWY sequel. Do not fuck it up and turn it into yaoi shit. Stop letting Toriyama write your fucking scripts. Give us a real sequel to Parasite Eve, not that cosplay crap for the PSP. Bring back the good characters. Stop hiring such high budget VAs for badly written roles. Let Nomura do what he wants with KH III and FF XIII Versus. It could save your company.

If I heard correctly, a lot of production time was just from creating the Crystal Tools engine.

Would've been good if they made the engine a little bit better since Gran Pulse hardly gave me a "oh shit we're in the wild now" feeling since there was no tall grass.

Snip

- Make all your main characters female.
- Make all your main characters female. TRUST ME ON THIS.
- Make all your main characters female. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THE JOKE SUGGESTIONS, S-E.

I hate to break it to you, but:
-img-
They flubbed that one already.

Ah, see, I had those memories surgically destroyed back in 2004. Point taken.

Still, imagine how much worse it would be if that picture contained Snow, Hope and that third character whose name eludes me. They're going for an all-male party in Versus, and I worry it will turn out like that. Of course, Versus is without Toriyama's involvement (or it will be, when they actually start making the fucking thing), so maybe my worries are baseless.

Then again.. what if XIII's problems were the fault of the other writers as well as Toriyama? What if Nomura suffers a stroke? What if it really does turn out to be Snow, Hope and some tertiary guy for sixty hours? I would honestly rather play X-2.

This is under the assumption that Snow and Hope are bad characters, instead of just badly written characters, right?

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Ah, see, I had those memories surgically destroyed back in 2004. Point taken.

Still, imagine how much worse it would be if that picture contained Snow, Hope and that third character whose name eludes me. They're going for an all-male party in Versus, and I worry it will turn out like that. Of course, Versus is without Toriyama's involvement (or it will be, when they actually start making the fucking thing), so maybe my worries are baseless.

Then again.. what if XIII's problems were the fault of the other writers as well as Toriyama? What if Nomura suffers a stroke? What if it really does turn out to be Snow, Hope and some tertiary guy for sixty hours? I would honestly rather play X-2.

Well, it won't fail if Travis here is a central character.

If I heard correctly, a lot of production time was just from creating the Crystal Tools engine.

Would've been good if they made the engine a little bit better since Gran Pulse hardly gave me a "oh shit we're in the wild now" feeling since there was no tall grass.

Huh, I thought a good part of the game seemd rushed. 6 years to develop the engine and hype it up. If TWEWY got even a tenth of the hype, there'd probably be a sequel to that by now.

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Because another failure (after XIII and XIV) might prove disastrous...

Some tips are substantial...most are rather frivolous.

-Take a good long look at Square's non-FF titles...especially Chrono Trigger/ Cross, Xenogears and Vagrant Story.

-Have the balls to make the protagonist an adult...in more ways than just the legal one. Or, in other words: Basch...not Vaan.

-Don't put moogles in dramatic sequences (I'm looking at you FF XIII-2)...tends to detract the emotional value

-Bring back the world map and exploration

-Don't swamp the game in frivolous/ meaningless mini-games (I'm looking at you FF X-2)

-Don't make another Vanille/ Hope like character ever again

-Try to portray "African Americans" in a non-comical relief/ stereotype way

-Don't be making "female" versions of brooding male characters...you know "female Squall" (Paine)...or "female Cloud" (Lightning). If you have problems with strong female characters...get some help from Joss Whedon

-Maybe more use of reality and logic wouldn't hurt? You know...it's not exactly normal for people to barge into someone else's home and start rummaging through their stuff. Nor is it normal for nearly every NPC to treat you as a long lost friend. "I'm sorry...but why are you telling me all of this?" should not be a player's reaction.

...and now it's your turn.

Yes...you, my fellow escapist...staring at the screen...asking yourself why your life turned out the way it did.

Okay, first, no dissing the moogles man, not cool. ;-)

Second, Squeenix doesn't need help creating strong characters, because they already made Final Fantasy IX, which had Beatrix (most bad-ass female soldier ever), Garnet (a typical Princess characters that DOESN'T just do it for the title, because halfway through, she actually becomes queen) and Freya (who is pretty much a digitized handbook on "how do I make a strong, honorable, yet emotional character who's story is all about patriotism, loss and love - without having her look like a fashion-model, as is the case with countless other female FF characters")

Third, nice list, allow me to add a few points of my own:

- It's nice that you keep experimenting with battle systems, it really is - that way you'll never end up in 'that shady group' of developers that is always re-hashing its mechanics. But, please, make sure it works and remains fun to play. FF VIII was freakishly paradoxical, but still decent. FF XIII was just a bit too... radical. I mean, Almost everything about FF X-2 sucked, but the one thing you did right, was the revamping of the job-system. Maybe you should look into that again? Maybe combine it with some Materia-esque mechanism? On a Grid?

- Don't make your universes needlessly complicated. FF VII had its legacy of materia and mako, it was easy to make parallels with the sources of our own planet. FF VIII had Gardens which looked like military schools and gave a nice twist to the Summons with the Guardian Forces. FF X had a nice continuity going on with its countless spheres. FF XII had a huge library where you could look up detailed info about EVERYTHING. But don't go throwing around terms like l'Cie, Fal Cie, Cieth, people turning into crystal, etc. xkcd once stated that the quality of a story goes down as you invent more non-existing words. I think he has a point.

- Graphics aren't everything Squeenix, just remember that.

- You know why the old FF-music is so fondly remembered? You know why everyone still remembers the tunes from movies like Jurassic Park? That's because the all had one thing in common: simplicity. The don't go overly bombastic, but try to call up an emotion with tunes that aren't to complicated, so they linger around in your head. That's why FF IX's music was so good: it was basically a 16-bit soundtrack created with modern day tools.

- Don't make sequels to main installments of the Final Fantasy franchise. Pretty please?

- Put some more wit in your dialogues, just look back at FF IX.

- Summons are summons, not overdrive/LIMIT/Limit Break/Trance things - so don't use them like that! You messed that part up in X-2, XII and XIII. Don't fuck it up again, please? (Oh, and Summons are NOT transformers - with the sole exception of FF IX's Ark.)

 

[Defense]

Ah, see, I had those memories surgically destroyed back in 2004. Point taken.

Still, imagine how much worse it would be if that picture contained Snow, Hope and that third character whose name eludes me. They're going for an all-male party in Versus, and I worry it will turn out like that. Of course, Versus is without Toriyama's involvement (or it will be, when they actually start making the fucking thing), so maybe my worries are baseless.

Then again.. what if XIII's problems were the fault of the other writers as well as Toriyama? What if Nomura suffers a stroke? What if it really does turn out to be Snow, Hope and some tertiary guy for sixty hours? I would honestly rather play X-2.

Well, it won't fail if Travis here is a central character.

If I heard correctly, a lot of production time was just from creating the Crystal Tools engine.

Would've been good if they made the engine a little bit better since Gran Pulse hardly gave me a "oh shit we're in the wild now" feeling since there was no tall grass.

Huh, I thought a good part of the game seemd rushed. 6 years to develop the engine and hype it up. If TWEWY got even a tenth of the hype, there'd probably be a sequel to that by now.

Oh yes, a good part of the game certainly was rushed. The team was doing their own thing until the end of the game so they poorly strung everything together instead of taking their time fixing things, and the Crystal Tools engine still made very ugly looking hands. But other than story and hands, it wasn't that rushed.

By the way, Hans Gruber is the one that's going to keep the game good.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Ah, see, I had those memories surgically destroyed back in 2004. Point taken.

Still, imagine how much worse it would be if that picture contained Snow, Hope and that third character whose name eludes me. They're going for an all-male party in Versus, and I worry it will turn out like that. Of course, Versus is without Toriyama's involvement (or it will be, when they actually start making the fucking thing), so maybe my worries are baseless.

Then again.. what if XIII's problems were the fault of the other writers as well as Toriyama? What if Nomura suffers a stroke? What if it really does turn out to be Snow, Hope and some tertiary guy for sixty hours? I would honestly rather play X-2.

Well, it won't fail if Travis here is a central character.

If I heard correctly, a lot of production time was just from creating the Crystal Tools engine.

Would've been good if they made the engine a little bit better since Gran Pulse hardly gave me a "oh shit we're in the wild now" feeling since there was no tall grass.

Huh, I thought a good part of the game seemd rushed. 6 years to develop the engine and hype it up. If TWEWY got even a tenth of the hype, there'd probably be a sequel to that by now.

Oh yes, a good part of the game certainly was rushed. The team was doing their own thing until the end of the game so they poorly strung everything together instead of taking their time fixing things, and the Crystal Tools engine still made very ugly looking hands. But other than story and hands, it wasn't that rushed.

By the way, Hans Gruber is the one that's going to keep the game good.

Sorry, G, I thought Snape was dead.

Is Hans Gruber the villian?

 

[Defense]

Sorry, G, I thought Snape was dead.

Is Hans Gruber the villian?

Hans Gruber is the king/father of Noctis, but one of the villians are a sinister/less snazzy Hans clone.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Sorry, G, I thought Snape was dead.

Is Hans Gruber the villian?

Hans Gruber is the king/father of Noctis, but one of the villians are a sinister/less snazzy Hans clone.

He looks like a pedo, or something.

 

[Heartcafe]

Advice:
CONCENTRATE ON ONE MAJOR PROJECT AT A TIME (or at least less then 20) Instead of spreading resources over 3 major titles (coughfabulanovacrystal-thingcough) and announcing them all at the same time, concentrate on one title at a time so you can produce a better quality game in a shorter amount of time. If you spread your people out and do a million things at once then they cannot focus on making a successful game.

Also, graphics don't make an awesome RPG. Gameplay and story does. Just look at Atlus's Shin Megami Tensei.

And don't lean so much on Nomura. I know he's one of the last few left at Enix that make good games that bring in cash but he has better things to do after Versus. (Such as TWEWY2 and KH3)