Something every rpg needs to have
- Thread starter CODE-D
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And there was me, on reading the thread title, thinking you meant something like this:CODE-D said:
OT: That list is pretty cool.
As for what I'd like, I love the books in the elder scrolls games, so I'd say exposition in the form of miscellaneous items or posters or NPC conversations is an absolute must. If you don't notice it, it builds your immersion, and if you do notice it, you think "The devs actually thought of that? Awesome!"
It's pretty much win-win
+1 to bestiaries. They add a lot to games, particularly if the writing is strong. Take Witcher 1 - there are these plants that come out of the ground and attack you. So far, so RPG. Then, you learn in a bestiary that they tend to appear at the sites of murders. Suddenly, you realize some plot-relevant things about the guy who hired you to kill some in his backyard, and start to wonder things like "who was killed here?" every time you encounter giant plant monsters.
I disagree with one thing: "HP & MP restoration with level increases" - I don't think every RPG needs it. I agree it's nice but I'll not call it mandatory. I'd prefer it if there was a reason for HP/MP to be resored with leveling up. Weirdly enough, that is the case with Oblivion and Jim uses it as an example. In Oblivion you only level up after sleeping. So, yeah - it's justified to restore your HP then - you heal by sleeping. Might & Magic works on a slightly similar principle - when your character(s) are ready to level up, then you need to level them up. You don't get a glowing light from you and instant increase in skills and abilities - you need to go and pay for training. In town. And training takes time - a few days per each character. Yes, it makes sense for them to heal and yes it's nice instead of having to also heal them. But it's totally not what Jim describes.
Seems to me most of these only apply to console and/or JRPGs... >.>
You know what I think most need, especially "western" RPGs? A sense of urgency, or at least something to explain just why the Big Bad is sitting around waiting for you to finish faffing about with sidequests.
Take Oblivion for example: the land is under dire threat of invasion by what are essentially the minions of hell itself. And yet, said invasion will never actually happen if you simply ignore it.
And it's the same for Skyrim. The civil war will never be won or lost (and is barely there to be experienced, sans mods). Dragons will not wipe out the inhabitants--and won't even appear if you don't trigger Mir's appearance. Alduin himself will just chill out until you decide you're ready. What's up with that?
And let's not forget Mass Effect, either. The Reapers, Collectors, Cerberus, etc., they all just sit back and wait while you go off rescuing some Admiral's kid or something.
One imagines all these villains sitting in a bar somewhere, comparing notes, swapping stories and grumbling at their respective lollygagging protagonists.
You know what I think most need, especially "western" RPGs? A sense of urgency, or at least something to explain just why the Big Bad is sitting around waiting for you to finish faffing about with sidequests.
Take Oblivion for example: the land is under dire threat of invasion by what are essentially the minions of hell itself. And yet, said invasion will never actually happen if you simply ignore it.
And it's the same for Skyrim. The civil war will never be won or lost (and is barely there to be experienced, sans mods). Dragons will not wipe out the inhabitants--and won't even appear if you don't trigger Mir's appearance. Alduin himself will just chill out until you decide you're ready. What's up with that?
And let's not forget Mass Effect, either. The Reapers, Collectors, Cerberus, etc., they all just sit back and wait while you go off rescuing some Admiral's kid or something.
One imagines all these villains sitting in a bar somewhere, comparing notes, swapping stories and grumbling at their respective lollygagging protagonists.
Shall we enact the Majora's Mask mechanic of an in game time limit? I can't really think of a way to add urgency besides that, or making the game linear. [small] Which I wouldn't mind...[/small]evilneko said:
One thing they got wrong though is that leveling up in pokemon doesn't restore your health.
I agree with pretty much everything in that article.
Skippable cut scenes
all.
ways. This should apply to every game, but RPGs are particular offenders, especially if we're talking just prior to a boss battle cut scenes.
Scripted boss battles. With a fair bit of challenge! Western RPGs for some reason are under the delusion recently that people don't play fantasy games to slash and/or blast giant monsters with a big ass sword/gun/gunsword. Fable series, of course being the worst offenders.
Fewer, more meaningful item drops. I can't stand having to spend 20 minutes wading through crap items to make sure I don't sell something I can use.
Endgame content. Mass Effect had the nasty habit of giving you less than nothing to do after completing the game. Unfortunate, since Mass Effect's mission-oriented gameplay would make it SO easy to add a level select feature to replay completed ones. I mean, you can make a save or each mission... but who the hell wants to do that? Having some optional bosses or a way to face past bosses is always nice to see. Bowser's inside story and Kingdom Hearts(1 more so than 2) did this quite well.
Skippable cut scenes
all.
ways. This should apply to every game, but RPGs are particular offenders, especially if we're talking just prior to a boss battle cut scenes.
Scripted boss battles. With a fair bit of challenge! Western RPGs for some reason are under the delusion recently that people don't play fantasy games to slash and/or blast giant monsters with a big ass sword/gun/gunsword. Fable series, of course being the worst offenders.
and harbinger is too video-gamey for your Role-Playing-(video)Game???? REALLY?????
Fewer, more meaningful item drops. I can't stand having to spend 20 minutes wading through crap items to make sure I don't sell something I can use.
Endgame content. Mass Effect had the nasty habit of giving you less than nothing to do after completing the game. Unfortunate, since Mass Effect's mission-oriented gameplay would make it SO easy to add a level select feature to replay completed ones. I mean, you can make a save or each mission... but who the hell wants to do that? Having some optional bosses or a way to face past bosses is always nice to see. Bowser's inside story and Kingdom Hearts(1 more so than 2) did this quite well.
In a word, yes.him over there said:
In a longer form: Perhaps not an explicit time limit per se, but let things happen with or without the player. The world needs to actually live and not revolve around the player. This could and should affect the main quest, making conditions more and more difficult as time passes. In Oblivion, a cities could start falling. Bruma IIRC is the second city to be threatened by a big gate. If the player doesn't take action in time, Bruma could fall. Daedra could start overrunning areas of countryside, making sidequesting or random faffing about more and more dangerous. If the player still won't heed the call, more cities could be destroyed, until finally the Imperial City itself succumbs.
Skyrim would be even more fun to do this in, since you have the added wild cards of random dragon attacks, the Thalmor, and the civil war. There's a ton of potential there.
I don't have much experience with JRPGs (or console RPGs in general) so I can't really say much about them. I played a bit of Chrono Trigger, but never finished.
Mount & Blade is, arguably, an RPG with a living world similar to what I desire. It doesn't really have a "main quest" though. You kind of decide for yourself what your quest is. However, all the elements are there: your actions have consequences, NPCs take action with or without you, and your actions and even who you associate with can affect what NPCs do. Now imagine Skyrim played like that. Instead of pacing back and forth talking about attacking Whiterun forever (and they will, ad infinitum, every time you visit), Ulfric eventually goes ahead and marches on the city. And if you wanted to you could intercept the army en route! (much as you can in M&B)
As for the main quest--didn't bother to talk to Balgruuf like the guys in Riverwood said you should? Well maybe by the time you do get to Whiterun, or the next time you pass by it, Mirmulnir is either attacking or has already destroyed that watch tower, and is possibly attacking the city itself. Oops. Although probably not, since the guards alone can take that wuss of a dragon (no really, they can). But, since you didn't have any involvement... no Lydia for you!
It would be epic.
The stronger the story the more shit I'm willing to trudge through during gameplay, that's most important to me.
why do you "need" endgame content?Innegativeion said:
persoanlly once Ive finished the main story Ive got very little motivation to go do anything else
I mean it depends on the kind of game..Fallout (GOTY edition) has the DLC as my "endgame" content where my charachter coninued her wasteland adventures....it still felt a little odd I just had to "stop playing" rather than an actual end (well I guess I could count the end of broken steel)
I mean I see nothing wrong with having the story and every wrapped up,more satisfying. if you didnt complete everything you can always reload a save
I heavily disagree with #4. I hate when my party disbands in a large city. How the fuck can I buy new, proper gear for everyone by my cunting self!?! Because after that bit of faffing that your entire group does is usually a dungeon you can't leave. Or some kinda festival you're dragged into. Or the city's overrun. Or something happens that makes returning to vendors in the near future an impossibility. AND I HATE IT!!!!!
I definitely agree with the "Story so Far" Summaries. I don't know how many times I've taken a break from an RPG and come back to it later, loaded up my most recent save, only to discover I had completely forgotten what the hell it was I was supposed to be doing. And many of these wouldn't have a nice summary, or quest log, or journal, or anything I could check to remind me so I'd just have to wander around aimlessly until I'd find an NPC who'd be nice enough to refresh my memory.
But then that takes away your freedom. It stops the story getting dull if you can take a break from it whenever you want and do some other random quest. You might feel differently but I don't mind it so much.evilneko said:
OT: I agree with all of those things. In any game the little details matter but they mean even more in a RPG. They just make the world so much more alive. Another thing I like in RPGs are random encounters, like in Skyrim when the guards chase after a theif in Riften, that sorta stuff. It makes the world more real and is a nice reminder that you aren't the only one having problems.
I'm not sure I follow anything past your second sentence, but it sounds to me like if you could compare and swap out our party's gear remotely, then there's no issue.wintercoat said:
Better scenarios. That's what every rpg should have nowadays ! I'm sick and tired with fantasy worlds clearily influenced by Tolkien and SF realities that suffer "alien invasion" syndrome. :|
Yeah id have to agree with everything on that article.
Other criticisms I could add are:
Making battles faster. Usually this might involve eliminating battle screens & random encounters (as in seeing nothing at all). FF12 done this brilliantly although they could have designed it so your characters dont even stop to kill a low level enemy with one slash when you're trying to get somewhere. Fighting constantly gets boring real fast after a while.
Adding strategy to enemy fights. FF10 was good in that there were some enemies weak/strong against certain weapons & magic which mixed things up a bit & made battling less of a chore. Chronotrigger in my opinion is the best game for boss fights as they actually required you to find a pattern & exploit it. That monster in the sand caves killed me quite a few times before I caught onto this.
Trying something new & sticking with it when it works. The only example I can think of that has impressed me so far is the junction system in FF8. Ofcourse, it would have worked out better if status spells were effective regarding jims article.
Things based on chance. I dont want to have reset a game just to try & collect something good. The prime example is the Zodiac spear in FF12. Stuff like that should be earned not stumbled upon at the right time.
Oh & nothing pisses me off more then getting far in the game only to realise there are things for me to do or get early on but its too late. Especially when you havent been told about it at the time.
That is all.
Other criticisms I could add are:
Making battles faster. Usually this might involve eliminating battle screens & random encounters (as in seeing nothing at all). FF12 done this brilliantly although they could have designed it so your characters dont even stop to kill a low level enemy with one slash when you're trying to get somewhere. Fighting constantly gets boring real fast after a while.
Adding strategy to enemy fights. FF10 was good in that there were some enemies weak/strong against certain weapons & magic which mixed things up a bit & made battling less of a chore. Chronotrigger in my opinion is the best game for boss fights as they actually required you to find a pattern & exploit it. That monster in the sand caves killed me quite a few times before I caught onto this.
Trying something new & sticking with it when it works. The only example I can think of that has impressed me so far is the junction system in FF8. Ofcourse, it would have worked out better if status spells were effective regarding jims article.
Things based on chance. I dont want to have reset a game just to try & collect something good. The prime example is the Zodiac spear in FF12. Stuff like that should be earned not stumbled upon at the right time.
Oh & nothing pisses me off more then getting far in the game only to realise there are things for me to do or get early on but its too late. Especially when you havent been told about it at the time.
That is all.