Something for the Ladies

[Anaphyis]

Err... what? Maybe this is the result of you cutting down the article. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I don't know. But the second page basically reads like "Yeah, if we consider these pesky womenfolk when making a game, next thing you know we have to make options for gay black brits!"

What Leslee said. Women are not a minority. That we even have to discuss about including half the worlds population is beyond me.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Another slam dunk, Shamus!

As an inveterate RPG player, I started out with games where you could choose the gender of all six of your characters (gold box FTW!!!), and since then I've always found it a bit odd that I couldn't play as, well, a girl. But I've still enjoyed games where I'm stuck with the Male Lead as my character (Gothic), even when some aspects of those games seem to have been designed with young males in mind. But I have a mannish personality for a woman because I actually *like* young males even when I find their peccadilloes amusing and I'm not in the least offended if some enjoy seeing some bouncy boobs. I can't imagine how women who are actually uptight about these sorts of things must feel.

 

[illiterate]

No justice until we see a female GTA lead.

Is all I'm sayin'

 

[Low Key]

A large majority of gamers are guys, so much so that companies are able to release games with harems of women and still sell millions of copies.

I'm all for equality, but let's face it, somethings are the way they are because that's how life works. I mean, I don't see make up commercials directed towards guys. Where's the equality in that? It not that guys can't wear make up, it's that they don't want to. Same thing goes for girls and aggressive, blood splattering video games. Girls can still buy them, but they won't, and you know what? I don't think the devs making the game cares all that much, because in the end, they are still making their money.

No matter how much our society progresses and game devs start taking into consideration the female population, there will always be games purely for the enjoyment of males.

 

[Shamus Young]

I realize that it would be impossible to please everyone in regards to race, ethnicity, religion, etc.

But we're talking about GENDER. With the exception of our hermaphrodite friends, you're either one or the other. Women make up 50% of the human population. That's HALF!

So why is MALE always the automatic DEFAULT option?

Leslee

I even said at the end that this doesn't excuse leaving women out, it's just that there is a lot more to it than flipping a one to a zero.

I think - and this is one of the ideas that I had to cut - that in situations where the game designer wants to have a well-defined character, there are several things that drive them to select male over female:

1) Game developers are mostly guys, and people write what they know. As an author, I can jump in and write a male much more easily than a woman. It's the path of least resistance.
2) Games tend to be about violence, which means they end up being for and about men. I wouldn't put a woman on the beaches of Normandy or have a woman in the Roman army just for the sake of equality. That covers a lot of games.
3) Since over half the audience is men, if you have to go one way or the other it makes economic sense to pander to the larger group.

Again, I don't think this excuses the lack of games about women, I'm just pointing out that the omission of female protagonists is not the result of misogynistic developers.

Personally, I think developers are shooting themselves in the foot. If I were to make a game, I would make the main character female simply because that would be a great way to set the game apart and make it distinctive. It's hard to have a male lead that isn't going to look like a "me too", because it's all been done to death.

 

[SatansBestBuddy]

It's interesting to see all the examples here, and yet the one that best fits the article isn't mentioned at all.

That would be Resident Evil, a game which let you play as either a male (Chris) or female (Jill), and it was huge in that that one choice you make at the very beginning affects everything in the game, from the people you meet (you'll never met Rebecca if you play as Jill, and likewise, Barry disappers when you're Chris), to how the plot unfolds (Chris needs Rebecca to help slove some puzzles, while Jill can get Barry to help with some bosses), which endings you can get (each character has four, making for eight in total), and even how the game plays! (Jill has eight inventory slots and a lockpick to open some doors, while Chris only gets six slots and has to carry around keys to unlock those same doors, which take up one much needed inventory space)

This game, by giving players the simple option of choosing a gender, was essentally giving players two games to pick from.

Resident Evil 2 took it even further, making it so what one character does affects how the other character can progress, and even changes the plot radically instead of just the endings.

But RE3, and every RE since, has gotten rid of the choice, and it's obvious why; they're way too much work!

 

[Anaphyis]

I don't think the devs making the game cares all that much, because in the end, they are still making their money.

Yes. On the other hand, they could make even more money and I don't see devs declining money to keep their piece of art (i.e. square-faced grizzled space marine being manly with his completely heterosexual buddies and splashing aliens) intact.

What this debate comes down to is clichés and prejudice. Take a standard FPS for example. Are girls appaled by the whole shooty stabby concept or by the fact that all of them are so tuned toward a male audience (even the rare female protagonist usually has double Ds and about 2 inches worth of cloth) the game might as well be shipped with a issue of playboy? I don't know but I think it's time for a factual study.

After all, we are talking about considerable lost revenue here. Hell, we are talking about ignoring half your potential customers.

 

[samsonguy920]

I realize that it would be impossible to please everyone in regards to race, ethnicity, religion, etc.

But we're talking about GENDER. With the exception of our hermaphrodite friends, you're either one or the other. Women make up 50% of the human population. That's HALF!

So why is MALE always the automatic DEFAULT option?

Leslee

Actually women make up more than half the population. And because, like it or not, we as a species are still stuck in a sexist mentality. Males go win the bacon, females cook the bacon. And I eat the bacon. And no you cant have any.
The better tactic is to make a character that nobody would care if they were male or female, since the focus of the game is to go out and do things to win the objective. Not play 'Days of Our Lives Online.' I get to do that at my job everyday. From what I hear, games like Half-Life and Bioshock do that quite well, where it is actually not so noticed that the protagonist is male. If it wasn't for Freeman having a first name called out from time to time, then you could choose your own gender for Freeman as you could for Shepherd.
Mmmm, good bacon.

 

[Low Key]

I don't think the devs making the game cares all that much, because in the end, they are still making their money.

Yes. On the other hand, they could make even more money and I don't see devs declining money to keep their piece of art (i.e. square-faced grizzled space marine being manly with his completely heterosexual buddies and splashing aliens) intact.

What this debate comes down to is clichés and prejudice. Take a standard FPS for example. Are girls appaled by the whole shooty stabby concept or by the fact that all of them are so tuned toward a male audience (even the rare female protagonist usually has double Ds and about 2 inches worth of cloth) the game might as well be shipped with a issue of playboy? I don't know but I think it's time for a factual study.

After all, we are talking about considerable lost revenue here. Hell, we are talking about ignoring half your potential customers.

While there is a fair amount of girl gamers, they do not make up half of the people who buy games. Not even close.

And while I might be a self professed nerd, I am not clueless when it comes to the opposite sex. The girls I know who play games stay away from FPS's, even games like Call of Duty which do not portray women as objects. I can only imagine, and by that I mean I know for a fact, girls just don't find the same amount of joy in maiming others as guys do. Because of that, game devs make their games for guys, and that's just the way of the world.

 

[Orange126]

I'm a white, hetero, male American, so the default options usually work out pretty well in my favor. Nevertheless, many times I would prefer to play a female character, particularly in 3rd person games (if I have to stare at someone's backside for hours, it might as well be a decent view). What bothers me most, though, are the highly customizable games. They let me choose between multiple races, multiple sexes, multiple classes, multiple skin colors, all sorts of armor & weapons, sometimes I can even vary the height. But if I want to put a sword in my left hand, that's just unacceptable.

 

[Cousin_IT]

one day there will be games for guys, games for girls, & the big mashup in the middle. ATM, thers games for guys, games for guys with female protagonists, & games for girls which are also games for kids. Alas, it will be a long time before the market changes. Because as with movies, many more girls are okay seeing an action film then guys are seeing a chick flick. Since the market for all but Wii casual games is still dominated by male, insecure homophobes, it will be a long time before publishers/devs feel the real pressure for change.

 

[Macar]

one day there will be games for guys, games for girls, & the big mashup in the middle. ATM, thers games for guys, games for guys with female protagonists, & games for girls which are also games for kids. Alas, it will be a long time before the market changes. Because as with movies, many more girls are okay seeing an action film then guys are seeing a chick flick. Since the market for all but Wii casual games is still dominated by male, insecure homophobes, it will be a long time before publishers/devs feel the real pressure for change.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head with that one. I think it's going to be some time, and a gradual changing of dynamics that will solve this problem. The vidoegames industry is changing fast and it's experiencing growing pangs in this and other areas- and there are still too many people stuck in the past (both gamers who wont accept outsiders, and cantakerous non-gamers who cant beleive games are anything but juvinile toys)

 

[DeathQuaker]

Interesting read; it's often something I've thought about myself.

I think making identifiable leads is something that can be addressed incrementally. Right now, just seeing more female leads would be nice. (Especially since studies of Tomb Raider show that a lot of male gamers like playing Lara Croft, even if for no other reason, they like looking at her rather than some beefcakey ass running around. I think this--and the other reasons for male players being fine with female leads--can extend easily to other games.)

Likewise, more variety in appearance/race would be nice. I don't think those things in itself require a whole lot of re-thinking/extra technology.

The complication comes in when yes, you have romance or sex interests.

There's option 1: don't have romances. Most video game "romances" I've played through suck anyway--I feel like I'm romancing cardboard. (The only one I ever enjoyed was TNO and Annah in Torment, and that only went so far--but it was extremely well written.) I'd honestly rather have no romance then have, say, some guy I've tried to ignore the entire game suddenly throws himself at me because the game's script told him to (I'm looking at you, NWN2).

The fact is, beyond sexuality, it's nearly impossible to design a love interest that appeals to everyone. We all have different tastes, and what one person finds hot another person is going to be disgusted with.

Option 2 is what Bioware does: be reasonable, give the player the choice of gender and race (this to me is always my favorite solution to the lead-diversity issue), and design the romantic interest from the perspective of the NPC--if you're female and they're a straight male they'll hit on you, but so will the gay female on the team. The straight female will not hit on you, however. They seem to be already capable of creating a set cast with well-developed NPCs who can at least appeal to several if not all gamers, so if they just keep doing what they're doing and build on it as they're capable, there will be a good system.

Also, importantly, you should ALWAYS have the option of turning down a romance or sexual offer. If you don't have the resources to program in a romantic partner for every potential player, someone who's turned off by the offer should be able to turn the character down--and with a better dialogue option than something that makes your main character sound like a douche. (I remember in Baldur's Gate 2 "leading on" Jaheira because any choice I had to get her to stop trying to romance me was something like, "Shut up you stupid half-elf *****" while apparently something like, "Uh-huh, that's nice," was a major turn on to her.)

Some day devs may have the time and money to program in multiple leads and multiple romance interests and I think it may actually be possible one day. In the meantime it's still important to do what you can to be as inclusive as possible, even if all that is is being able to toggle the "male/female" switch in the character creation screen.

For games like Overlord, any "relationships" therein are purely shallow and sexual, with no real personalities to worry about writing (I haven't played Overlord, so correct me if I'm wrong). Seems easy enough to make some beefcake meshes and slap them over the harem, and let the player choose what kind of member of the harem they want (in fact, when its time for you to "earn" your next harem member, let them choose from a list--you can therefore get the ones you want, both male and female of a variety of appearances). Seems well within today's technology, and all it takes is a couple more character designs and animations and you're done.


In addressing Shamus's questions at the end: "Does this sort of thing keep the ladies from playing? Do females stay away because games are made for men, or are games made for men because females stay away?"

As a female gamer, I've noticed many games I play are assumed to be "made for men"--despite the fact that research shows that 40% of gamers are women. So if I were to stay away because games are "made for men" I wouldn't have anything to play.

I do stay away from games that appear to be particularly degrading to women. A little cheesecake is fine (as is beefcake) but if every female character is there simply to be fucked or slapped around.... or even to just be weak and useless... I'm not going to play it. I know that kind of thing is going to lead to me feeling angry and attacked personally, so I'm going to avoid it. It's why I avoided The Witcher despite being an avid RPG fan; people kept saying it was the best RPG EVAR, but I kept reading the nonsense about seducing women for rewards and it just didn't sit right with me, so I kept far away from it.

But I won't avoid a game just because it has a male lead. My favorite game ever is Planescape: Torment which has a male lead--and a fantastic story. I'm bi so I'm happy with the romance, and you can avoid the romance easily enough if that isn't your thing. The story is excellent and all the characters relatable to in some way, so the fact that the main character happens to be a guy isn't a big deal to me.

Likewise, I--like a lot of female gamers--like to play JPRGs, which are almost solely dominated by stories with male leads (usually annoying, bratty, teen male leads at that). I can play games like that, even if I can't identify with the lead, because there are still other great characters, male and female and other, to enjoy. One of my favorite series is Suikoden, which has a lot of strong women to relate to and characters of all stripes, shapes, colors, and sizes to enjoy--truly something for everyone. I think the JRPG genre in general does inclusivity pretty well. And I think FFXIII's having a female lead is a nod to the fact that so many players of JRPGs are increasingly female.

Wow, that was a teal dear. Sorry about that.

 

[Macar]

Likewise, I--like a lot of female gamers--like to play JPRGs

It's interesting, I've wondered weither issues of sexisim are thought about less in Japan.

I will say, that having lived in another country, american young men are worse about being homophobic than possibly anybody in the world.

 

[Gunner 51]

If a game is good, I wouldn't care what gender the protagonist is.

 

[Generic_Dave]

I'd argue with each pairing doubling the amount of work necessary. Take Mass Effect, lots of different choices, but in fact they were mostly the same responses regardless of how you choose. It add some work I'm sure, but if you keep the group the same and just swap characters, it need not consume so much effort. And is there really that much difference between a guy hitting on a girl and a guy hitting on a guy that the entire scene would need to be re-recorded? Really all you need is a name (Shepard) and androgynous pet name (babe, doll, etc...). As for voice actors, wanting a "black" or "Asian" voice actor, in the most part leads these days are silent enough. Plus I would say that it's a fair enough bet, that any game with that much choice would have an empty vessel lead.

But as an general issue, I don't really care who I'm playing as if the story is enjoyable and the gameplay good. I mean if the deciding issue for me to buy or play a game was the main character then it probably wouldn't be worth playing in the first place.

Is it a demographic issue? Maybe it's a developer issue, lots of white males making and greenlighting video-games, I'd say it's a fair bet that female writers place female protagonists in stories more often. Gay / Female / Transgender etc... if you want games to reflect the true diversity of the world, then you've got to get these people making games. And I know there are already women working in gaming, and there are already gay people working in gaming but I can't remember the last time I heard, read or saw an interview with a developer that wasn't with a white male...

 

[Vect]

The idea of a Female Video Game protagonist that isn't meant to be an asskicking sexpot (Lara Croft, any female character in a Tomonobu Itagaki game, the protagonist of X-Blades Whatsherface, Myriad Others) is something of an untapped market. Villain Franchises like Overlord and (to a lesser extent) Disgaea are sort of the same thing, though on a more "Tapped" scale.

I do enjoy female characters that are competent and likable without being overtly sexualized (IE in either a costume where her breasts are begging for escape or in skintight "Armor" that emphasizes her ladybits), Alyx Vance herself being a good example. Still, as mentioned before games are meant to be for Manny Men Men Yaargh. That and a good market for games is still for Males. While girl gamers exist they're still hardly thought of as a profitable target.

Still, maybe a new game of a non-Adventure/Puzzle Game genre will star a competent female protagonist who is neither a Shallow Love Interest or an Action Girl with the power to stuff THAT figure into that getup as a certain feline companion once stated. She'll be skilled at whatever deed she does and have the respect of a well-developed cast of characters...


And ended up being lambasted by Yahtzee as "Affirmative Action: The Game" for our amusement.

 

[mooncalf]

I've seen plenty of threads where males have expressed being perfectly comfortable with a female protagonist. Developers may feel this is not the case, or are "writing what they know."

 

[DeathQuaker]

Likewise, I--like a lot of female gamers--like to play JPRGs

It's interesting, I've wondered weither issues of sexisim are thought about less in Japan.

I will say, that having lived in another country, american young men are worse about being homophobic than possibly anybody in the world.

I am not surprised at all by the latter concept.

As to the former, re: Japan. I've done proofreading work for a Japanese sociologist who focuses on women's issues, and based on her and others' academic research on the issue, I would say that overall, sexism is a major problem for their culture overall (for example, though things are improving, it's very difficult for a woman to get a job in business that isn't a temporary secretary position).

But (according to my personal experience/observation, not academic research) Japanese media/pop culture seems to be divided into two wildly different factions. One adheres to the deepest rooted sexism, producing at their most extreme, things like rape games and some of the more terrifying "dating" Sims. Some might say games like Onechanbara Bikini Samurai Squad (I may have gotten that title slightly wrong) might also fall into this group, even if the women are the leads.

Another group seems however invested in making sure there are strong female characters to root for and who often are clearly in control of their lives and their destiny. Although some of them still suffer from gratuitous cheesecakery more than the male characters (with some exceptions), they still to be standout representatives of a Japanese concept of an empowered woman. I would say many, though not all, JRPGs are good at having characters like these.

 

[Anaphyis]

While there is a fair amount of girl gamers, they do not make up half of the people who buy games. Not even close.

And this will certainly not change with the ghettoization of the female audience. So yes, leave this giant market untapped and whine about piracy and rising development costs instead because thats how the world works.

Oh well. While I could argue about the size of your reference pool and compare it to mine and jump on the fallacy to declare this fact, thus rabidly biting back at what was hopefully meant tongue-in-cheek... Forget it. We are at polar opposites here and way to dismissive to acknowledge the others arguments, we might as well start the shootout now instead of dancing around.