Sony Erects Online Pass Barrier Around Uncharted 3 Multiplayer

[Baresark]

Yeah... This problem is unique to Sony... /sarcasm

Why does one part of this whole situation always seem to be forgotten? Some people who buy used don't care about the online in the first place. Hell, I buy everything new and I usually still don't care about the online.

I never said it was unique to Sony at all. Sony has a problem where they only like customers in so far as they directly receive money from them. There is lots of evidence that customers are valuable beyond this very point, but they like to ignore the secondary and tertiary ways customers can be valuable. Some of which will make them more money than the primary interaction does.

 

[Lucane]

Huh... Well I'd say everyone's at fault for that being the way it is right now

Not really, I think its mainly the retailers fault. Unless you count it as the customers fault for not doing something about it.

That's exactly what I meant.

Oh. Then I guess that makes me stupid.

No no your great it's a layered thought process if it just started yesterday it'd just be the retailers, but since it's been going on so long the blame is also on customers who've bought those used games as well which is where my point is at.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The measure taken is one that seems designed to fight arbitrage more than piracy, honestly.
It will only require the pirates to actually purchase a 10 dollar multiplayer pass, which is something I guess, but it's not really going to keep them from playing the core game if they so choose.

 

[4173]

Sony has every right to seek out maximum profit potential, but they do not have a right to do it at the expense of customers. Also, as so many people have pointed out, if something is pirated, or in this case, purchased second hand, that isn't a lost sale. Just because they were willing to spend money on it at a reduced cost, that doesn't mean they would buy a new copy if the alternative didn't exist. By the time the price drops naturally, most people and the company have long since stopped caring about it.

They do. They really, really do, up until the point they break a law or create a monopoly (neither of which are the case). If they want to smash every copy of Uncharted 3 with a hammer, they can. If they want to charge a million dollars per copy, they can. It is their property, their product.

Yes, ignoring used sales would make some customers like Sony more and maybe buy more product. Yes, the online pass may alienate some consumers but also increase income. I don't know what strategy would maximize returns and Sony doesn't know either. But it's pretty likely they've given it a whole lot more math and science than I have.

It appears Sony is being quite open about this. They are offering a product that consists of the Uncharted disc and a 1 time use code. You have every right as a consumer to take this information and decide if that package is worth the cost. However, Sony has no obligation to protect re-sale value. I'm sure you know the old canard about driving a new car off the lot. As far as I know, Sony's product isn't radioactive or toxic. It isn't outlawed.

After that, "right to do it at the expense of customers" is just babble. Sony has no obligation to sell you their product. Sony has no obligation to sell products of a certain size or price. No one has claimed Sony is trying to deceive anyone. Expense of the customers in this case is just a red herring. It's also at the expense of the customer that I can't buy a Ferrari for a $1 or I can't keep a rental car after the agreed upon time has past.

They do it because they feel entitled to money that they are not entitled to. Why are they not entitled to that money? Simply put, they didn't earn it by being competitive in the market

They are free (and perhaps obligated by shareholders) to pursue that money however they think best, within the law. It may not work, it may cost them money. I know that, you know that and Sony knows that.

You're saying these things as if they are insults. Sony is aware of a thing. Sony thinks they can make money by targeting (competing) with other producers of that thing. Now replace Sony with every company ever.

 

[DTWolfwood]

wait pirates play their pirated games online? when did this happen?

 

[drkchmst]

Ah yes have legitimate customers pad you against piracy. Not only did you lose my sale I may look into finding another way to play.

 

[Whateveralot]

Another one? Jesus...

How many people actually pirate games nowadays? first thought is that was a save face for fighting used sales customers.

Glad I don't have a PS3 then.

Why exactly are you glad you don't have a PS3? That's like saying you're glad you don't have any money.

Uncharted has multiplayer? Seriously, I own 1 and 2 and I've never noticed it ever.

Not sure if serious, but just to point out to you in case you were serious: Uncharted 1 hasn't. 2 has.

 

[vivster]

is that supposed to be a joke?
i really hope it is

if you can't afford something then you have to wait until it gets cheaper... it's as easy as that
that's the same stupid reasoning pirates use to justify their actions: "i can't afford it now so i MUST steal"

those first world problems are pissing me off
"oh no i have to wait half a year so i can afford a video game!!!!! my world is gonna end!!!! and just because of evil publishers who have all right to set the prices for their products!!!! oh no!!!!!"


also i fail to see how an honest customer is punished by this
punished by spending 10 seconds to type in a code
ok... now that i can understand

 

[Custard_Angel]

Machine breaks and gets replaced = no more multiplayer.

Or... you know... the multiplayer is just going to be a token add-on that no one actually cares about.

Like Dead Space 2.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Well this won't be bothering me as I'll be buying it brand new anyway. Within a year of it's release Uncharted 3 will be selling for £19.99 and that online pass won't make much of a difference anyway.

Machine breaks and gets replaced = no more multiplayer.

Or... you know... the multiplayer is just going to be a token add-on that no one actually cares about.

I'm guessing it'll be tied to your PSN account like downloads are... and last I remembered Uncharted 2's multiplayer was actually pretty good and popular (not CoD popular, but I still get full games on a daily basis).

 

[Andronicus]

Anyone who buys Uncharted to play a multiplayer game deserves to pay for it anyway. There is absolutely no reason for it to be there, and personally I think this new trend of adding multiplayer into EVERYTHING is something that shouldn't be encouraged.

If the SP Uncharted campaign isn't good enough, what makes you think MP is going to be any better?

 

[Jezzascmezza]

Well, it looks like Sony haven't been watching the last couple of episodes of The Jimquisition...

 

[Something Amyss]

For paying customers? Not one way in the slightest.

Yeah, except that's false.

And how do you think "they wouldn't have bought the game anyway" is in any way, shape of form an argument against this? If they never would have bought it to begin with, then why should Sony care what they think? In fact, the online pass then becomes the only way they would get them to pay at all, so thats more reason to do it.

And if your attitude is one of cutting off your nose to spite your face, that's indeed true. Of course, the used market and the new market are closely intertwined, and to say someone isn't a customer because they don't buy game X or Sony shouldn't care because they didn't buy game Y is myopic and borderline spiteful.

If buying one game used meant you'd never buy another game from them ever again, that would be a valid mentality and I'd jump on that apologetics bandwagon with you. Of course, online passes often draw money from a limited pool. Which impacts future purchases. This not only may encourage further used sales indirectly, but also affect who you buy from. Wanting more money doesn't mean there's more money to be had, no matter how much Sony may wish for it. And in the real world, they're doing this when one of their bread and butter economies is in a recession. This also has the added effect of punishing people who may be buying used because of economic circumstances, generating bad will that may prevent them from coming back to these companies when they get their hours or jobs back.

Maybe you are some silver-spooned child who has unlimited cash, and your attitude thus seems justified because you've never actually had to earn your toys. Most people have some level of fiscal limitation to their hobbies. The reality isn't so cut and dry when you don't have an unlimited amount of mommy's cash to run off of. People use used games to fund new game purchases, remaining customers. Take that away, you may make them actual non-customers, not just the glib version you cribbed from that Penny Arcade comic a few months ago. It's a lovely straw man to knock down, and I love Gabe and Tycho, but the mentality they portrayed is simply not the issue.

Even pirates are still buying titles, oddly enough, though I'm not going to defend pirates. The used market is legit, legal, and actually considered a right. I have little sympathy for people who can't just torrent titles for free, but that is a completely different level of argument. I just wanted to point out the level of dishonesty involved in the non-customer argument.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Well, I can see it from Sony's point of view: They need to make money. This helps them do that. They do deserve to get some cash from second hand sales. Personally I think this is the wrong way to go about it though.

Publishers should get actively involved in the trade-in system somehow. That could mean they make a deal with the brick and mortar stores where they receive a percentage, or, and I think this is the best solution for them and the customer, they do trade-ins themselves.

For instance, you buy Battlefield 3, and decide that you are bored with it, and you want Mass Effect 3 that's now coming out. EA sends you a voucher for X trade-in value, which you can use with their online store. Then they know your going to buy another EA game, plus they can either take your old game out of circulation, so people can't just keep selling and buying it second hand, or sell it on to someone else.

I think a system like that would make consumers more grateful to the publisher, and it would make the publisher, and possibly therefore the developers, more money. Win - win, I'm thinking.

Yes.
This is what I've said since the publishers started whining about used sales. It would work out better for everybody....except maybe gamestop.
It wouldn't take much for them to offer a better deal than gamestop.
Fuck gamestop.

 

[Baresark]

snip

That is, of course, completely true. When I say they "have no right", I literally mean they can't just do it and expect people to buy it. I wouldn't buy it, regardless. But I do get into a tizzy about companies being douche bags. But, this is old hat for Sony. They are used to this. The lack of the right to do anything is simply based on what their customers are willing to withstand. I get pissy about destruction of competition, and I get even more so when people defend it. But, you are correct, and I am quite wrong here.

Not that I disagree, but most companies out there try to win over customers by putting out a superior product to the competition, and I can't support features that are held back from the final product in the name of profit seeking, so I can't in good conscience support that type of thing. That is my opinion on the subject, and some others. I recognize that others do not share this opinion. But I have little patience for cheerleaders of bad business practices. Which is what that other poster was, a cheerleader.

The most amazing thing is, there are plenty of successful companies out there that do lots of software releases with little or no DRM. And they are successful in a lot of ways, not just financially successful. So, Sony, EA, Ubisoft, etc., their days are numbered if that trend keeps up. Then it is them who cannot once again compete in the market. But, this is idle speculation on my part. Can't wait to see how it turns out..

Edit: Also, Sony does not "deserve" money from second hand sales. I see this line repeated over and over again on this thread. As people are not entitled to software from a developer/publisher, the dev/pub is not entitled to money from anyone. As you said, they can just smash all the discs if they wanted. The product is theirs to do with as they see fit. But it's also wrong to tell people what they can do with it after they have bought it. Not legally wrong, but morals and laws have nothing in common.

 

[MajorDolphin]

Uncharted 3[/url] is the latest in a long line of games that requires players to input a special one-use code in order to get access to the game's multiplayer. Sony first rolled out its version of the online pass system - PSN Pass - earlier this year for Resistance 3.

Juan Jiménez, Sony España's software manager, confirmed that Sony was using the PSN Pass system for Uncharted 3, and that anyone who bought a pre-owned copy of the game would to pay the now-standard $10 fee in order to get a pass of their own. According to Jiménez, the pass is supposedly a buffer against piracy, with no mention of it being an attempt to claw back a few bucks on pre-order sales. Of course, considering Sony's ham-fisted efforts to tackle piracy in the past, it's almost believable that that's the case.

What a massive soggy load of logs.

Piracy? On the PS3? Did they just accidentally admit that gamesharing is piracy???! So we are getting punished because kids think its okay to share their games with 3 other buddies. I always knew we were getting crapped on because of those kids.

Unless they're talking about some other form of piracy on the PS3, which seems unlikely.

 

[MajorDolphin]

Siding with the business's interests on this one doesnt make you stupid. If you only by your games new then you have lost nothing. Sony and other publishers have simply split the original product into two sections in order to take a bite of the likes of Gamestop's profits.

I have no real problem with these measures it simply allows them to get a slice of the price of a pre-owned game in order to fund the section of the game that they are still supporting.

Not true.

A portion of new game buyers are getting hit with the hidden tax. Gamestop is going to reduce the amount of money they give out for games once consumers catch on to this 10 dollar bullshit. That 10 dollar pass will be passed on to new game buyers in reduced price when selling used.

If Sony really wanted to put a stop to used game sales then maybe they should stop sending their customers TO GAMESTOP with pre-order exclusives and other sales gimmicks.

 

[DustyDrB]

Uncharted has multiplayer? Seriously, I own 1 and 2 and I've never noticed it ever.

The first game didn't have multi. But Uncharted 2 does... I don't know how you could possibly miss it, it's in the main menu, you see it every time you start the game.

I didn't know it either until I saw people talking about it a few months ago here. I literally didn't even scan the menu once. Just went straight into the action.

OT: I said it in a different thread, the multiplayer isn't a draw for me and isn't something I'd have used anyway. Since I wasn't planning on getting Uncharted 3 until probably January or February (before ME3, during the time when there will likely be few good games coming out), there's a good chance that I'll get it used off of eBay. Maybe this will actually drive the price of the used game down [http://www.destructoid.com/online-passes-are-not-necessarily-bad-for-everyone-211841.phtml]?

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Yes, Sony have to earn our money. They are doing this by making an awesome game, then charging you $60 for that. If you pay that money, you get this with the online pass free. Sony are very good to their customers.

People who buy the game secondhand, and people who pirate the game, however, are not Sony's customers by any remote definition. They are either thieves, or the customers of Gamestop. They do not give Sony any money, and so Sony really have no reason whatsoever to not treat them with anything but contempt.

Meanwhile, for Sony's customers, absolutely nothing has changed, and they're getting awesome games for the same price they always have.

You people will just never understand. There are other places you can buy used games from, not just Gamestop. And because of that online pass that can only be used once, you can't access multiplayer if you buy a game from your friend for example. And you should be able to buy a used game the same way you are able to buy a used car, without any restrictions. Restricting the sale of used games isn't even good for their business. It makes people spend more money on one game that they can't sell later. Which will make people really careful about games they buy. So now we have people buying less games because they can't sell them later. And if they could sell it, they could use that money to fund another purchase. Let's say you don't have enough money to buy a new game made by Sony and you can't sell your other Sony game because of those codes. That hurts Sony. Not to mention how it hurts people who can't afford new games. A lot of people will first rent a game or buy a used game to see what it's like. And if they like it they will want to buy other games made by that developer. And since we live in the age of sequels, if you buy a used game and you like it, chances are you will pay full price for a sequel when it's out. This is not quantum mechanics. It's pretty simple logic. But thee companies are too greedy to think outside the box. They only care about immediate effects. And those immediate effects are ruining gamers and gaming industry. I'm surprised by how many people seem to be on the side of big corporations. It's really sad.