Sony Hacker Lawsuits Earn the Wrath of Anonymous [UPDATED]

[JDKJ]

I disagree with the fact that people shouldn't be allowed to mod their products because they might use it for piracy. That's like saying we shouldn't sell people knives because they might cut others.

I understand Sony's trepidation, but I don't agree with them.

I see your point but it's... Complicated.
Isn't the Sony software in the PS3 copyrited and secret and stuff? If so then I say you're probably not allowed to screw with it.
I'm sure it would be in the agreement that everyone signs when they buy the console or set it up or something.

Right on both points. The software in a PS3 is Sony's copyrighted property which Sony doesn't outright sell to those who buy a console, they only license it for use. And, yes, use of or access to that software is conditioned on acceptance of the terms of Sony's license agreement. I can't ever understand why so many people mistakenly claim to own that software and, therefore, that they can do whatever they want with it. That's simply not the case. That's a lot like saying because I bought a file of a song, I can make a copy of it and give it away to all my friends. As if that isn't illegal file sharing. I only bought the file. I didn't buy all the rights to it.

 

[Irridium]

So... will this help or hurt the chances of EULA's getting changed to be more consumer-friendly?

 

[Dodgeboyuk]

i think sony is the bad company here
i have been seriously concidering getting a ps3
but it feels like i should wait for this situation to sort itself out
i aggree with anon because of stupid overpriced DLC that does not need be overpriced in the first place

i think that modifying the console to play pirate games is wrong but these days when a Half a game DLC charged at the full price of a game makes me think they desrve it!

DLC was devloped to ensure that devlopers get paid in some way for games that get sold secondhand and i am fine with that but charging half the price or the full price of a game for half a game is wrong when the game is charged at full price in the first place
if the game was sold at half the price and the DLC makes the other half they would not look like they are milking the money tree too much

and i even think that any DLC that is sold seperatly should come with a trial period so people can really tell if they want it rather than buy and get pissed of with it

i am just going to continue expanding my PSone and PS2 collection at the moment
i see no reason to get a current gen console right now i rather play console games from the past where they focused on the game and gameplay not fancy graphics and DLC

 

[mew4ever23]

So the best way to get Sony to tolerate hackers is to hack Sony sites?

Err...

Doesn't seem exactly logical, does it? While I don't approve of their methods, you can't deny that they're raising a good point about what Sony's doing with these lawsuits - suppressing information about the console itself.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

I disagree with the fact that people shouldn't be allowed to mod their products because they might use it for piracy. That's like saying we shouldn't sell people knives because they might cut others.

I agree in theory. But there's a potential to really screw up other people's gaming experience since that modded product can still intermingle with a greater community. There's a balance here that Sony is likely trying to preserve. The majority of PS3 gamers are just folks who want to plug into the community and have fun interacting (I'm guessing). A modded box can really stink that up.

If some guy modded his car with armor plating and gun turrets, the cops wouldn't let him drive it to work. And if they did, I sure as hell wouldn't want to see him every day on my morning commute. Sony (the police) is trying keep the public roads (their online gaming experience) clear of tanks (modded boxes) to protect the general public (dumb gamers like me who don't mod boxes).

Good of you to bring up a car comparison, because I was just about to do the same: Sony's attitude towards modding is eerily similar to a company like Ford selling you a car with the promise that you may do whatever you wish to its engine/tires/whatever, but later has a huge recall. At this point you are informed that your sweet 500hp engine doesn't really belong in a Ford...what do they make again? Focus? Anyway, they take out your sweet 500hb engine and put the old one back in. But somebody doesn't like that, and scraps the piece o' shite engine that Ford makes, whereupon he gets sued. Granted, his suited up car could be used to illicit activities such as street racing or drug running, but the burden of proof is on Ford to show that their actions of at best questionable legality are valid, and that all "modders" are only doing so to partake in illegal activities. Before I end up confusing anybody but myself, replace every instance of "Ford" with "Sony," and "engine" with "OS."
I'm for Anon on this one. I kinda hope they stick to humiliating Sony, and not punishing their customer base, cuz I wouldn't want my information leaked all over ze net...

 

[midpipps]

I?m sorry, but Anonymous is just wrong in this case. Sony is not suing for some innocent tinkering of the physical components of their PS3 machine, which you do own. They?re suing for modifications to the software which you DO NOT own. Software companies do not sell copies of their software and say, ?Do whatever you want with it!? Why? Because then competitors can get a nice look under the hood. Software applications that are sold come with the condition that you do not have access to, nor will you tamper with the source code (unless the source code is what is actually being sold). Selling source code is akin to selling your company. Sony wouldn?t sell it for $300. It would sell it for millions. So yeah, someone hacking the machine to get to this source code is illegal.

I support Anonymous in their stance on Net neutrality, but this just seems a case of the group just wanting to be David to Sony?s Goliath. Think of it this way ? would you really be against Sony in this case if it were some indie developer? Something like this would destroy them as a company. People pile on because it?s Sony ? the idea that they have no shortfall of money somehow makes it seem okay. All that is, is people rationalizing illegal and immoral activities. They want to make it okay in their own minds.

Wake up. The actions matter, not the target.

I agree with this totally. Sony could care less what you do to the console itself (Ex. If they were really on about people tinkering with the console they could go after the guy that makes them into laptops etc.) What they are fighting about is that GeoHotz was cracking their source code and security systems in the source code. If he would have made his own operating system and firmware they probably wouldn't have given 2 shits as long as it did not play their games or try to subvert their security for their games or try to connect to psn.

 

[instantbenz]

So the best way to get Sony to tolerate hackers is to hack Sony sites?

Err...

It's beyond Sony's toleration. They will not tolerate it and thus action needs to be taken against the intolerance. I'm not condoning anon, but damn it's nice to see someone threaten the man once in a while.

 

[Kair]

Oh boy, Something tells me this is not going to end up pretty. I usually favor Anon with a lot of things, but this time it feels... off. Dunno how else to put it.

I think this might be why, it's why it feels off for me

SONY isn't abusing the legal system, they're USING the legal system. You might think what they're suing for is wrong, but if the judge allows the case to go through, it's because it's not abusing the legal system and a case can be made by both sides. You might not like what SONY is doing, but a legal battle is a viable option for SONY, they are using it, and if you don't understand that, tough.

I've supported Anon' MANY times in the past, including the WBC bollocks they went through, but they were right for that. WBC was pushing hate on the world. SONY is not abusing the legal system, they are simply using that method

Why is it that EVERY TIME someone twitches the wrong way, Anonymous goes "You are abusing the public and misusing all of this! We shall teach you a lesson!" like their donning batman's fucking cape? I can understand it if they get involved in an issue or two, but now they're hacking for the sake of hacking, they're watching everything going "Can we find a reason to hack for that? no...... How about that? ...... no....... OOooooh, lets do THIS!!!!"

There is the law and there is what is right.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Oh, God, these people decided to show up? Now this debate has really gone to hell.

Sony, just because something can be used for piracy, doesn?t mean it will be used for piracy. Were that the case, no one should be allowed to own a computer. I would advise dropping the suit, because even if you win, you may lose respect and gain ire

Annon, I mean, really guys. Is this worth your time? You are behaving like children who have had their candy taken away. You behave like pseudo-cyber terrorist cult, hiding behind the ?mask? of being anonymous.

 

[Baresark]

I love it how Hackers appear to think that hacking and causing damage to other people's property will somehow win over the public.

This is fucking stupid, regardless of which side you are on.

Not that I disagree completely with you, but people modifying their system to run custom made packages, isn't harming other peoples property. People purchase a PS3 with the understanding that they have purchased the system. I know I purchased the system with the understanding that I own it.

Also, not everyone who does this uses it for illegal activities such as piracy.

Oh Anon, may you never stop not having anything better to do.

This line of thinking is wrong. It's not that they don't have anything better to do, what they are doing is worthwhile and comes down to the very rights guaranteed by the US constitution, that is the right to own property. They are making the argument you do not own the property you bought from them, they in fact own it and can dictate how you are or are not allowed to use it.

OT: Sony are douche bags, it's true. I don't think they are abusing the system, but I do agree they are abusing their customers. You don't buy a car then no have a right to put in a new stereo system. You also have the right to enhance the engine so it's either more powerful/less fuel efficient, or more fuel efficient/less powerful. As soon as Ford said you weren't allowed to do that, everyone would be up in arms. This maintains itself as a niche debate based on the fact that so few people (in the grand scope of things) actually play video games.

That said, I feel sorry for people who are so small minded they refuse to see the bigger issue here. Everyone seems to think it's about piracy, but it stopped being about piracy a long time ago. Sony has no way of knowing who is or is not using these custom packages and firmwares for piracy, and who is not. Just like gun manufacturers don't know who is using guns to commit crimes and who are using them for self defense. You don't chase down the gun manufacturer every time someone gets shot, you chase down the criminal who committed the crime. But this has to be so different? When everything is said and done, our bureaucratic nightmare of an impotent legal system is going to be even worse.

All this is said with the very same understanding that piracy is wrong, and should not be allowed.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

In a "press release [http://anonnews.org/?p=press&a=item&i=787]," Anonymous said that Sony had abused the judicial system in an effort to suppress information about the inner workings of the PS3. Anonymous accused Sony of "victimizing" its customers, and intruding on the privacy of thousands of "innocent" people that just wanted to share information about a product they had legally purchased and should be able to do with as they pleased. What's more, the release said that judges and other legal entities involved in the suits were guilty of "undermining the well-being of the populace and subverting [their] judicial mandate."

Wait wait wait. The same group of "hacktivists" who, for example, released the personal info of hundreds of people they don't like so the entire public internet to terrorize them is now accusing Sony of intruding on the Privacy of their customers? What a joke.

 

[JDKJ]

I disagree with the fact that people shouldn't be allowed to mod their products because they might use it for piracy. That's like saying we shouldn't sell people knives because they might cut others.

I agree in theory. But there's a potential to really screw up other people's gaming experience since that modded product can still intermingle with a greater community. There's a balance here that Sony is likely trying to preserve. The majority of PS3 gamers are just folks who want to plug into the community and have fun interacting (I'm guessing). A modded box can really stink that up.

If some guy modded his car with armor plating and gun turrets, the cops wouldn't let him drive it to work. And if they did, I sure as hell wouldn't want to see him every day on my morning commute. Sony (the police) is trying keep the public roads (their online gaming experience) clear of tanks (modded boxes) to protect the general public (dumb gamers like me who don't mod boxes).

Good of you to bring up a car comparison, because I was just about to do the same: Sony's attitude towards modding is eerily similar to a company like Ford selling you a car with the promise that you may do whatever you wish to its engine/tires/whatever, but later has a huge recall. At this point you are informed that your sweet 500hp engine doesn't really belong in a Ford...what do they make again? Focus? Anyway, they take out your sweet 500hb engine and put the old one back in. But somebody doesn't like that, and scraps the piece o' shite engine that Ford makes, whereupon he gets sued. Granted, his suited up car could be used to illicit activities such as street racing or drug running, but the burden of proof is on Ford to show that their actions of at best questionable legality are valid, and that all "modders" are only doing so to partake in illegal activities. Before I end up confusing anybody but myself, replace every instance of "Ford" with "Sony," and "engine" with "OS."
I'm for Anon on this one. I kinda hope they stick to humiliating Sony, and not punishing their customer base, cuz I wouldn't want my information leaked all over ze net...

Where that analogy fails is that there is nothing in the Ford that is copyrighted or licensed to you for use with the understanding that you can't modify it. The Ford is yours free and clear (assuming you have title to it). Do with it whatever you want assuming that you're not somehow running afoul of some law somewhere (like removing the headlights and driving it in the middle of the night). The software in the PS3, unlike your Ford analogy, is copyrighted and merely licensed to you for use with the understanding that you can't modify it. You're comparing an apple to an orange.

 

[theriddlen]

Anonymous: You have my sword.

Sony is already on my blacklist, why not take it further?

 

[Popido]

Or we could try kissing Sony's ass harder? People, you aint getting any shit done!

 

[Maxman3002]

I disagree with the fact that people shouldn't be allowed to mod their products because they might use it for piracy. That's like saying we shouldn't sell people knives because they might cut others.

I agree in theory. But there's a potential to really screw up other people's gaming experience since that modded product can still intermingle with a greater community. There's a balance here that Sony is likely trying to preserve. The majority of PS3 gamers are just folks who want to plug into the community and have fun interacting (I'm guessing). A modded box can really stink that up.

If some guy modded his car with armor plating and gun turrets, the cops wouldn't let him drive it to work. And if they did, I sure as hell wouldn't want to see him every day on my morning commute. Sony (the police) is trying keep the public roads (their online gaming experience) clear of tanks (modded boxes) to protect the general public (dumb gamers like me who don't mod boxes).

Why cant sony just stop people going online with a box that doesnt have the most up to date update though? Or modded boxes just not alowed to join the community games (Like a silver membership on xbox live).

It might be illegal to armour plate your car, add spikes and drive it down the road but only because your on the road. Police have no problem with you doing it and driving it around you own land and wouldnt stop you from armour plating it. Its simply the road driving thats the problem

In this situation Sony seems to be saying that it is illegal to do anything to your car because theres a potential to drive it on the road dangerously once youve done it and ruin everyone elses drive (If you get the metaphore), rather than stopping you on the roads

 

[Royas]

I don't agree that it's hard to know who to root for when considering the Sony vs. hackers equation. I don't even like to call them hackers, they are altering the functions of a piece of hardware that they own. Period. There is no room for argument here, in my eyes. I bought the console, I may do with it as I wish, even if that means changing the firmware and the OS that it uses to run. It's my hardware, I WILL do with it as I please.

Go after the pirates, by all means, but stop using a method that hits innocents as well. Go after pirates for actual piracy, not for futzing with the gear. Sony needs to learn a lesson in humility, by whatever means necessary.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Oh boy, Something tells me this is not going to end up pretty. I usually favor Anon with a lot of things, but this time it feels... off. Dunno how else to put it.

I think this might be why, it's why it feels off for me

SONY isn't abusing the legal system, they're USING the legal system. You might think what they're suing for is wrong, but if the judge allows the case to go through, it's because it's not abusing the legal system and a case can be made by both sides. You might not like what SONY is doing, but a legal battle is a viable option for SONY, they are using it, and if you don't understand that, tough.

I've supported Anon' MANY times in the past, including the WBC bollocks they went through, but they were right for that. WBC was pushing hate on the world. SONY is not abusing the legal system, they are simply using that method

Why is it that EVERY TIME someone twitches the wrong way, Anonymous goes "You are abusing the public and misusing all of this! We shall teach you a lesson!" like their donning batman's fucking cape? I can understand it if they get involved in an issue or two, but now they're hacking for the sake of hacking, they're watching everything going "Can we find a reason to hack for that? no...... How about that? ...... no....... OOooooh, lets do THIS!!!!"

There is the law and there is what is right.

Yeah, I can tell that, but who is Anonymous to say what is right or wrong, and what gives them the right to play "executioner" or whatever role they put on while playing dress up. AS I mentioned, this is the Westboro, this isn't discrimination again human rights, this isn't racism, sexism, blah blah blah. This is a lawsuit because SONY feels wronged. If SONY loses, they lose, and they realize they were wrong. So what's all this "Eye for an eye" shit. This isn't going to show SONY a lesson, it's going to piss them off. It's going to make them try and hit hotz harder, and it's going to escalate.

You're right, there's what's legal, and what's right/wrong. And Anonymous should stick their nose in their own fucking business and now try to complicate or escalate this anymore than it has already. What they are doing isn't necessarily right, and it's not legal (assuming)

What I wanna know if what message are they trying to send? If Anon all hacked their own PS3s, that would be one thing. But they are hacking a domain belonging to SONY. They are trying to back a case of "You can hack your own equipment" and their method of backing this case is to CLEARLY hack someone else's property.

Yeah, they're SOOO in the right /sarcasm