Sony implements new policy censoring Japanese games for possible fanservice content

[I can't enter my old name]

I won't deny that the ending of Zero is pretty horribly bleak, but I never interpreted it's message to be quite that nihilistic.

I watched Zero before watching S/N. Yes, the ending of Zero is pretty bleak, but more importantly I feel cheated when the grail pulls a reverse card, and there is no explanation or any sort of clever meaning to justify it. It's like watching your daughter win a tennis championship, but then they give the trophy to the other kid because his dad is rich and a school chairman. Oh, also your daughter is now dead, but here's some random punk for you to take care of.

When he encounters the grail, and finds that not only can it not work it out, it has no desire to, he realizes that all the sacrifices he made to claim it were for nothing, and since "the ends justify the means" was his entire raison d'etre, having that end collapse on him meant the weight of his actions became too much to bear, and he was filled with remorse and self loathing.

Here's the problem. Fate Zero's message is terrible. The show says, "Don't be a hero, being a hero is a childish dream." In reality, if you have to kill people to save people, you should. It is not some tragic paradox, it is common sense.

The show tries to explain itself an easily solvable utilitarian paradox. Kiritsugu has to kill everyone on the 200 person boat holding him hostage to save another 300 person boat. Killing all 200 people seems harsh, but everyone on the 200 person boat would have killed 1.5 persons, whilst everyone on the 300 person boat would have killed 0, considering it was Kiritsugu's decision, not him being held against his will. Everyone on the 200 person boat is at face value incredibly selfish, and has forfeited their lives.

Then the grail tries to pull a fast one, and says that the 300 person boat splits into 100 and 200 person boats, the 100 person boat holds Kiritsugu hostage, and the process repeats. Kiritsugu kills all 100 people again, but then again everyone on that boat would have killed 2 persons. Now you're left with a boat with 200 people who killed 0 persons.

Which choice is better, saving 200 people who killed 0 persons, or 200 people who killed 1.5 persons? Hmmm, what a difficult decision. I know what I'd choose, not the boat filled with selfish bastards.

 

[balladbird]

I watched Zero before watching S/N. Yes, the ending of Zero is pretty bleak, but more importantly I feel cheated when the grail pulls a reverse card, and there is no explanation or any sort of clever meaning to justify it. It's like watching your daughter win a tennis championship, but then they give the trophy to the other kid because his dad is rich and a school chairman. Oh, also your daughter is now dead, but here's some random punk for you to take care of.

That's definitely the biggest weakness of Fate as a franchise. It's extremely continuity locked. Main entries in the series tend to just assume that anyone who sees them is familiar enough with everything that's come before, including branches of a never-imported visual novel that are only now starting to get anime adaptions, or plot points from that *other* visual novel that never got imported... and don't explain beyond the bare minimum they feel they need to.

"Well, obviously the Grail is evil! See, back in the third Holy Grail war, a random fluke caused this guy to be summoned who was basically tortured by everyone he knew and loved so he could become an avatar of an ancient Zoroastrian god of destruction, and going though all that left him with a little bit of a grudge... and when the holy grail reabsorbed him it assimilated that grudge into itself, so now it has no interest in granting the wishes of others unless they inflict suffering upon as many people as possible! We made it so very clear!"

Here's the problem. Fate Zero's message is terrible. The show says, "Don't be a hero, being a hero is a childish dream." In reality, if you have to kill people to save people, you should. It is not some tragic paradox, it is common sense.

The show tries to explain itself an easily solvable utilitarian paradox. Kiritsugu has to kill everyone on the 200 person boat holding him hostage to save another 300 person boat. Killing all 200 people seems harsh, but everyone on the 200 person boat would have killed 1.5 persons, whilst everyone on the 300 person boat would have killed 0, considering it was Kiritsugu's decision, not him being held against his will. Everyone on the 200 person boat is at face value incredibly selfish, and has forfeited their lives.

Then the grail tries to pull a fast one, and says that the 300 person boat splits into 100 and 200 person boats, the 100 person boat holds Kiritsugu hostage, and the process repeats. Kiritsugu kills all 100 people again, but then again everyone on that boat would have killed 2 persons. Now you're left with a boat with 200 people who killed 0 persons.

Which choice is better, saving 200 people who killed 0 persons, or 200 people who killed 1.5 persons? Hmmm, what a difficult decision. I know what I'd choose, not the boat filled with selfish bastards.

It wasn't heroism that was a childish dream though. Saber's arc in Zero is the same as Shirou's is S/N, She mistook her own guilt complex and desire to be punished for her perceived past injustices as some kind of selfless heroism. She dressed it up as though her wish for the grail was a noble and knightly act of valor, when she really just felt like she deserved to self-flagellate for the crimes she felt responsible for. Kiritsugu did have choice words about knightly honor and heroism... but the whole point of his character was that he wanted more than anything to be like her, and his character was motivated almost entirely by self loathing. Admittedly, since Saber and Shirou don't get their proper arcs until the sequel series, Saber's arc in Zero is kinda just brought up and then left in a less-than-satisfying manner.

The point of the exercise with Kiritsugu and the boats was that the Grail was willing to give him the power to always be the one to choose who lived and who died. He could go on living as he always had, killing the few to save the many, on a grander scale than ever before, but there would never be a time when that role was finished. He would constantly be acting to save a gradually smaller and smaller portion of people, who in turn would grow to resent him for the power he had over them.

It basically comes down to being Kira from Deathnote... Except, humans, not being great creatures, would never reach the idealized state Kira believed his killings would eventually create. Kiritsugu would suffer as he spent the rest of his life performing the same act he initially sought the grail to try to avoid ever doing again, the populace would suffer as a random dude used divine power to constantly judge them guilty, and the grail would be happy... because the grail gets off on suffering. This was how Kiritsugu realized the grail was corrupted, and why he decided to destroy it.

...except, it turns out, there are consequences to deciding to blow up a magical artifact whose soul defining characteristic was that it contained an unprecedented quantity of magical energy so... good job, Kiritsugu.

Sorry, I'm not really trying to sway your opinion or have a passionate argument... It's not as though I don't understand where your criticisms are coming from, or believe that Zero was a flawless series. I just so rarely get an excuse to talk about Fate Zero, so I gotta take my chances when I can!

 

[Marik2]

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Is it because they think they'll make more money? I bet it's because they think they'll make more money. (I'm not clicking on the video)

 

[BrawlMan]

Ironically, Sony just became what Nintendo was in the 90s. Not to mention, they're giving what people like Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkisian want. How the mighty have fallen. Careful, Sony, because of your balls dropping, a lot of Japanese devs are going to start flopping to Nintendo, Microsoft, or PC/Steam.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Ironically, Sony just became what Nintendo was in the 90s. Not to mention, they're giving what people like Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkisian want. How the mighty have fallen. Careful, Sony, because of your balls dropping, a lot of Japanese devs are going to start flopping to Nintendo, Microsoft, or PC/Steam.

They want to use the crushing power of the US Justice system to destroy Take Two as a company because of a misplaced fear that video games cause mass violence and also want to make video games slightly less sexist by talking about them on YouTube?

Or are we still pretending that Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian are in anyway equivalent.

EDIT: also, in the US, the idea that somebody's "balls are dropping" means they are getting more mature. It's a saying about puberty. Which makes that statement very ironic

 

[BrawlMan]

Ironically, Sony just became what Nintendo was in the 90s. Not to mention, they're giving what people like Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkisian want. How the mighty have fallen. Careful, Sony, because of your balls dropping, a lot of Japanese devs are going to start flopping to Nintendo, Microsoft, or PC/Steam.

They want to use the crushing power of the US Justice system to destroy Take Two as a company because of a misplaced fear that video games cause mass violence and also want to make video games slightly less sexist by talking about them on YouTube?

Or are we still pretending that Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian are in anyway equivalent.

EDIT: also, in the US, the idea that somebody's "balls are dropping" means they are getting more mature. It's a saying about puberty. Which makes that statement very ironic

In a way, they're still trying to pander to moral guardians like those two. Both had complaints about sex and violence in video games, and tried to form their on pathetic crusades. The only difference being that Anita is slightly smarter than Jack, but that is not much of a mile stone.

 

[Avnger]

Ironically, Sony just became what Nintendo was in the 90s. Not to mention, they're giving what people like Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkisian want. How the mighty have fallen. Careful, Sony, because of your balls dropping, a lot of Japanese devs are going to start flopping to Nintendo, Microsoft, or PC/Steam.

They want to use the crushing power of the US Justice system to destroy Take Two as a company because of a misplaced fear that video games cause mass violence and also want to make video games slightly less sexist by talking about them on YouTube?

Or are we still pretending that Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian are in anyway equivalent.

EDIT: also, in the US, the idea that somebody's "balls are dropping" means they are getting more mature. It's a saying about puberty. Which makes that statement very ironic

In a way, they're still trying to pander to moral guardians like those two. Both had complaints about sex and violence in video games, and tried to form their on pathetic crusades. The only difference being that Anita is slightly smarter than Jack, but that is not much of a mile stone.

Using the same ridiculous vagueness, Sarkeesian is equivalent to Gandhi and/or MLK Jr.

"In a way, they're still trying to pander to moral guardians like those two. Both had complaints about social justice, and tried to form their on pathetic crusades. The only difference being that Gandhi/MLK is slightly smarter than Anita, but that is not much of a mile stone."

If you want people to take your complaints seriously, talking in hyperbole fit for r/GamersRiseUp is the worst way to go about it.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

That's definitely the biggest weakness of Fate as a franchise. It's extremely continuity locked.

Yeah, you're telling me things I had no idea about. Zero made me mad that I didn't really want to get into the original until UBW came out. I'm not the biggest fan of the series.

The point of the exercise with Kiritsugu and the boats was that the Grail was willing to give him the power to always be the one to choose who lived and who died. He could go on living as he always had, killing the few to save the many, on a grander scale than ever before, but there would never be a time when that role was finished. He would constantly be acting to save a gradually smaller and smaller portion of people, who in turn would grow to resent him for the power he had over them.

Wasn't that was same thing that happened to Shirou? I find it silly that Kiritsugu never bothered telling him anything, and Shirou does the same thing as Kiritsugu. He doesn't even bother telling him that he had a daughter. I'd think that would be kind of important.

It basically comes down to being Kira from Deathnote... Except, humans, not being great creatures, would never reach the idealized state Kira believed his killings would eventually create.

Kiritsugu did nothing wrong. Neither did that guy with worms inside of him. Kira on the other hand was basically implementing capital punishment for every suspect without due process. That didn't work back then, and it certainly isn't going to work now. Also Kira could only kill people announced on television, so his dream of a perfect world is dumb. If you can avoid the police, you can avoid Kira.

Kiritsugu did his duty instead of turning a blind eye. Sure, he could never create world peace, the world would be a better place than before. The worm guy was trying to save Sakura, and look what happened to him. Waver, I forgot what he was about, but I don't think he did anything wrong.

I'm was familiar with Urobuchi's writing (Madoka, Saya no Uta), but in Zero he takes these characters who haven't a bad bone in their body, tortures them to the upmost agony, and then does the same to their family, and makes them watch until they break. All the bad characters either go unpunished or just die without any restitution, and the show is like watching a gigantic injustice unfold. It's absolutely depraved, and he went too far with this one.

It's even worse than Saya no Uta, which is saying a lot considering how messed up that game is.

Sorry, I'm not really trying to sway your opinion or have a passionate argument... It's not as though I don't understand where your criticisms are coming from, or believe that Zero was a flawless series. I just so rarely get an excuse to talk about Fate Zero, so I gotta take my chances when I can!

Oh, I'm not trying to have an argument, and I'm not trying to question your tastes. I'm glad you enjoy Fate, and I do like Zero. It's just that the show was really mean spirited.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Zero was originally a light novel written by Urobuchi Gen (of Saya no Uta and Madoka fame) so you can't expect it to not be pretty mean spirited and dark lol.

At least the anime didn't have Gille's child skin umbrella lol.

 

[BrawlMan]

Ironically, Sony just became what Nintendo was in the 90s. Not to mention, they're giving what people like Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkisian want. How the mighty have fallen. Careful, Sony, because of your balls dropping, a lot of Japanese devs are going to start flopping to Nintendo, Microsoft, or PC/Steam.

They want to use the crushing power of the US Justice system to destroy Take Two as a company because of a misplaced fear that video games cause mass violence and also want to make video games slightly less sexist by talking about them on YouTube?

Or are we still pretending that Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian are in anyway equivalent.

EDIT: also, in the US, the idea that somebody's "balls are dropping" means they are getting more mature. It's a saying about puberty. Which makes that statement very ironic

In a way, they're still trying to pander to moral guardians like those two. Both had complaints about sex and violence in video games, and tried to form their on pathetic crusades. The only difference being that Anita is slightly smarter than Jack, but that is not much of a mile stone.

Using the same ridiculous vagueness, Sarkeesian is equivalent to Gandhi and/or MLK Jr.

"In a way, they're still trying to pander to moral guardians like those two. Both had complaints about social justice, and tried to form their on pathetic crusades. The only difference being that Gandhi/MLK is slightly smarter than Anita, but that is not much of a mile stone."

If you want people to take your complaints seriously, talking in hyperbole fit for r/GamersRiseUp is the worst way to go about it.

I am not making this r/GamerRiseUp.I have no idea where that accusation came from. I despise it and the whole GGate/Anti-Ggate bullshit that came with it. I may not like either of the two people I mentioned, but I will call bullshit when I see it.

The whole replace with Gandhi/MLK Jr. I know the point you were trying to make, but it falls flat.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I am not making this r/GamerRiseUp.I have no idea where that accusation came from. I despise it and the whole GGate/Anti-Ggate bullshit that came with it. I may not like either of the two people I mentioned, but I will call bullshit when I see it.

The whole replace with Gandhi/MLK Jr. I know the point you were trying to make, but it falls flat.

How so? After all, you're equating somebody who had some mild criticism distributed on YouTube with somebody else who was trying to absolutely destroy entire companies with the legal system.

It's like comparing somebody who says "take it easy on the fast food, it's bad for you" with somebody trying to sue Wendy's for Negligent Homicide.

 

[BrawlMan]

I am not making this r/GamerRiseUp.I have no idea where that accusation came from. I despise it and the whole GGate/Anti-Ggate bullshit that came with it. I may not like either of the two people I mentioned, but I will call bullshit when I see it.

The whole replace with Gandhi/MLK Jr. I know the point you were trying to make, but it falls flat.

How so? After all, you're equating somebody who had some mild criticism distributed on YouTube with somebody else who was trying to absolutely destroy entire companies with the legal system.

It's like comparing somebody who says "take it easy on the fast food, it's bad for you" with somebody trying to sue Wendy's for Negligent Homicide.

Both are pompous, arrogant, windbags, know-nothing-know-it-alls that use people for their own crusades. While Jack Thompson is worse, Anita ain't much better. All that money for her Kickstarter because of the harassment, and it looks like she barely spent anything on her videos because of it. So in a way, anyone backing her for whatever reason was duped to an extent. I also don't respect someone who plagiarize other people's work or take videogame footage without their permission or consent. Plagiarism I do take seriously. Remember to that IGN guy who plagerized that dead cells video review and several other video reviews on YouTube?

It's got to point that last I heard, that even her own hardcore fans are sick of her bulshit. Now she did not deserve all the harassment and death threats though. Because of that she got more attention than she deserved.

That's all left I have to say on the matter as I'm not turning this off toppic or completely derailing it into another Anita sarkeesian topic. (Don't bother pointing out my response posted at the Sony video).

If you don't get or understand where I'm coming from that's on you, I don't care at this point. I said my piece. Moving on to other topics now. I need to look at something more positive anyway.