I think you have your American stereotypes confused bro.bad rider said:
Debits cards differ from credit cards and banks tend to pay much closer attention to credit cards than they do debit cards because for credit cards, the risk is entirely the banks usually. For debit cards, it depends on whether your actual card was stolen or whether just your card information was stolen, when you became aware of the loss, when, if ever, you report it, etc., etc., etc.Low Key said:
Look bro, if you was chillaxin like I am bra, maybe you wouldn't be worryin bout dem stereo whatsamajigs and be hitting some waves bra. Chill.Low Key said:
Sometimes I think hackers just don't think about the response their actions elicit. Some will try to justify their actions by claiming they are making things safer by demonstrating where the vulnerabilities are, but what they are really doing is causing things to become more tyrannically locked down than ever before as people have extreme reactions to stuff like this. It may be safer, but it's not a happy kind of safer. You don't just keep breaking into a man's home, claiming to be showing him where the holes are, without expecting, sooner or later, to find he's gotten a shotgun to blow a hole in your face the next time you try to break in; no questions asked, no answers given.Tom Goldman said:
It seemed like common sense? I mean, if nothing else, you'd think a company would have a sense of self preservation, even if they weren't doing it out of a sense of honour and duty toward their customers =P I mean, from what I can tell, if you piss off your shareholders, you're in hot water...JDKJ said:
Au contraire, if through an organisation's negligence a loss of more than $5000 occurs, then it is by definition criminal. That's where the line gets drawn. It's considered accessory to fraud.JDKJ said:
Maybe that's how in works in Canada, eh. But it ain't how it works in California where PSN subscribers are contractually required to file suit against Sony, if they have one to file. In California, criminal negligence has nothing to do with any magical dollar amount, not $5 or $5,000,000. Rather, as the California Court of Appeals has stated:Caiti Voltaire said:
Should I take that as a compliment? ;-P I kid, I kid...JDKJ said:
There are a lot of devices in the American judicial system which are intended to decrease inefficiencies by not having the litigants or the courts waste time with stuff that's obvious. One of my favorites is the concept of "res ipsa loquitor" ("the thing speaks for itself") which is frequently used in tort cases to dispel the need to prove that the defendant breached their duty of care to the plaintiff. The concept is based on the common sense understanding that some injuries can only occur if a duty of care was in fact breached.justnotcricket said:
and you actually think people capable of hacking Sony database will be stupid enough to take out large sums of money from your accounts.......silly youbad rider said:
dont you know how credit card heists work?
And how exactly are they going to take that money? Funnel it off to another bank account? An easy way to have your assets seized by the FBI, or maybe you'll what? go buy an ice cream for the local store.... telling the FBI exactly where you are currently living.draythefingerless said:and you actually think people capable of hacking Sony database will be stupid enough to take out large sums of money from your accounts.......silly youbad rider said:
It is clear to me that you are restricting yourself to what you see in movies, and that these are your only viable options for credit card heisting. Money is withdrawn in normal amounts from various accounts, along the time it lasts to have that account accessible. Banks have procedures that warn them for that type of penny withdraw scheme. Either way, that scheme only really works for insider cuts. and even those get caught(Goldmann Sachs much?) Also, that thing you said about blocking high amounts? not really. You can take like 400 dollars easily from most places. Once you have someones credit info, you can pretty much take the money you want for as long as its not blocked. and of course you dont transfer it, you withdraw. There are guidelines for this kind of credit heist. That is why banks warn people and each person should take care and defend their numbers and cards. If people like these obtain them, they will take your money, and itll be pretty fucking hard to get it back or catch them.bad rider said:And how exactly are they going to take that money? Funnel it off to another bank account? An easy way to have your assets seized by the FBI, or maybe you'll what? go buy an ice cream for the local store.... telling the FBI exactly where you are currently living.draythefingerless said:and you actually think people capable of hacking Sony database will be stupid enough to take out large sums of money from your accounts.......silly youbad rider said:
Besides the steal pennies from thousands routine is probably the most obvious one in the book, it's the one everyone knows about ever since every other movie used it as a plot point.
Totally offtopic but I gotta post this anyway - Kalezian - your avatar - it's hypnotising, mesmerizing and damn creepy. Every time I see it I stop reading the thread and stare at it. But now I'm a little afraid to hit the Post button. If I do, will your avatar then know where I live or call me from inside the house?Kalezian said:
Yes, but credit card companies will cover any loss you make, and as I said (the crux of my argument) these guys haven't taken this data in a fashion whereby they are anonymous. There are signal flares essentially pinpointing them saying they have done this. They have had a week to take the money in which no-one was aware that there credit information had been stolen. This is their window of opportunity, now this information is hot property and investigators into crimes are looking to prosecute these individuals who have shit loads of credit cards. This makes them a priority in terms of being investigated. Therefore by using the credit cards they will inevitably be leaving a trail as to where they are, in the here and now. This is risky when people are actively searching for you as a priority. Remember Sony has hired several security firms to stop the leak, how many do you think they have employed to get it back? If these guys are even half as smart as you'd think to be able to get this information, they will have run the cards dry and ditched them by now.draythefingerless said:It is clear to me that you are restricting yourself to what you see in movies, and that these are your only viable options for credit card heisting. Money is withdrawn in normal amounts from various accounts, along the time it lasts to have that account accessible. Banks have procedures that warn them for that type of penny withdraw scheme. Either way, that scheme only really works for insider cuts. and even those get caught(Goldmann Sachs much?) Also, that thing you said about blocking high amounts? not really. You can take like 400 dollars easily from most places. Once you have someones credit info, you can pretty much take the money you want for as long as its not blocked. and of course you dont transfer it, you withdraw. There are guidelines for this kind of credit heist. That is why banks warn people and each person should take care and defend their numbers and cards. If people like these obtain them, they will take your money, and itll be pretty fucking hard to get it back or catch them.bad rider said:And how exactly are they going to take that money? Funnel it off to another bank account? An easy way to have your assets seized by the FBI, or maybe you'll what? go buy an ice cream for the local store.... telling the FBI exactly where you are currently living.draythefingerless said:and you actually think people capable of hacking Sony database will be stupid enough to take out large sums of money from your accounts.......silly youbad rider said:
Besides the steal pennies from thousands routine is probably the most obvious one in the book, it's the one everyone knows about ever since every other movie used it as a plot point.
i am simply running on your own argument. seems to me you were lenient into not lifting a finger about your credit card data being compromised, as to not even inform your bank of the event. Your bank, and none of the policing forces, will look into your credit card history unless you alert them to. If you alert them, why yes, from there on out, they will look on your history. But if you dont give any signs to them that something is happenin, they wont look into it. Its that simple. Also, drying the cards implies high amounts of money withdrawal, wich banks look into and/or require identification. The best way is to withdraw money in a unrelated locale to yourself, in normal amounts. When your bank begins to investigate, he simply ditches the cards. And by now, they prolly ditched them if they are smart. a week is more than enough time to milk thousands of dolars distributed thru various accounts.bad rider said:Yes, but credit card companies will cover any loss you make, and as I said (the crux of my argument) these guys haven't taken this data in a fashion whereby they are anonymous. There are signal flares essentially pinpointing them saying they have done this. They have had a week to take the money in which no-one was aware that there credit information had been stolen. This is their window of opportunity, now this information is hot property and investigators into crimes are looking to prosecute these individuals who have shit loads of credit cards. This makes them a priority in terms of being investigated. Therefore by using the credit cards they will inevitably be leaving a trail as to where they are, in the here and now. This is risky when people are actively searching for you as a priority. Remember Sony has hired several security firms to stop the leak, how many do you think they have employed to get it back? If these guys are even half as smart as you'd think to be able to get this information, they will have run the cards dry and ditched them by now.draythefingerless said:It is clear to me that you are restricting yourself to what you see in movies, and that these are your only viable options for credit card heisting. Money is withdrawn in normal amounts from various accounts, along the time it lasts to have that account accessible. Banks have procedures that warn them for that type of penny withdraw scheme. Either way, that scheme only really works for insider cuts. and even those get caught(Goldmann Sachs much?) Also, that thing you said about blocking high amounts? not really. You can take like 400 dollars easily from most places. Once you have someones credit info, you can pretty much take the money you want for as long as its not blocked. and of course you dont transfer it, you withdraw. There are guidelines for this kind of credit heist. That is why banks warn people and each person should take care and defend their numbers and cards. If people like these obtain them, they will take your money, and itll be pretty fucking hard to get it back or catch them.bad rider said:And how exactly are they going to take that money? Funnel it off to another bank account? An easy way to have your assets seized by the FBI, or maybe you'll what? go buy an ice cream for the local store.... telling the FBI exactly where you are currently living.draythefingerless said:and you actually think people capable of hacking Sony database will be stupid enough to take out large sums of money from your accounts.......silly youbad rider said:
Besides the steal pennies from thousands routine is probably the most obvious one in the book, it's the one everyone knows about ever since every other movie used it as a plot point.
But you know feel free to blindside this argument or whatevers cool by you.