Sony Website Hacked By the "Lulz Boat"
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
Recommended Videos
With Sony's record I'm more inclined to give lulzsec the benefit of doubt. Have you forgotten the time when Sony said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we'd secretly root people's boxes using innocent-looking audio CDs?"Jumplion said:
Well, I haven't forgotten that one. In my eyes exploiting trust and screwing the people who put bread on your table is even worse than what lulzsec did, ever.
Sometimes the only way to fight a man with a gun is to bring a bigger gun. In an ideal world there would be no hack - Sony would never spray golden rain on to it's customers' mouthes, hackers would never get pissed at Sony, Sony would see the point of spending on security measures and everything would be okay.Jumplion said:
It's complex, yes, but I'll always stand that corporations need to become responsible - for their clients, for their products, for their employees, for the environment, for the world - even if it kills them.
I did not live at that time, so I really wouldn't know, unfortunately.archont said:
You don't bring a bigger gun and then proceed to shoot the man's customer (he owns a restaurant, makes some fine Italian cuisine, though there's hair in the sauce occasionally.)
I would be more inclined to agree with you if these hackers hadn't deliberately stolen 1,000,000+ people's (allegedly) information and then proceeded to use this information to terrorize said customers. People have already lost multiple accounts to this, and these guys are basically going "Hey, guys, use this shit we got!"
Sure, corporations should be responsible, but then you get into this whole "rape-logic" thing, and then people start yelling and blaming someone at every corner, Sony should have done this, hackers should have done that, Sony brought this unto themselves, the customers did not, what have you.
If they were more ethical about it they'd release full data on each first registered used each month and then truncated data for the rest, with some obscure hash instead of a plaintext password. To prove they have it but prevent it from being used maliciously.Jumplion said:
Of course then the topic on Sony's lips would be "Since they aren't doing real damage, someone explain why we should give a shit". I know Google for example would appreciate and understand such a gesture. But not Sony.
did you see what they did to PBS? They really don't care what people say about them they really are just pretty much doing it for the lulz. I mean they posted a story about how Tupac was found alive in New Zealand and this picture:Internet Kraken said:
Lulzsec is the biggest gray hat group in existence right now
Siding with Sony here; not because I think they're security is fine (they really need to do something about it, fast), but because these hackers weren't doing this in any noble intent to help Sony as much as they may want to believe. If they were, they would of simply told Sony about how piss-poor their security measures are, rather than try to prove a point to them and everyone else about how piss-poor they are.
This all reminds me of that case with Rift where somebody found a major flaw in their login system. Unlike this guy; where he could of taken customers passwords and posted them online for people to use, mocking Trion's lack of security, he simply told the guys at Trion that their login has a flaw. That is a hacker having noble intent.
This all reminds me of that case with Rift where somebody found a major flaw in their login system. Unlike this guy; where he could of taken customers passwords and posted them online for people to use, mocking Trion's lack of security, he simply told the guys at Trion that their login has a flaw. That is a hacker having noble intent.
I really have to support LulzSec in this whole thing. Not because I totally agree with everything they do, but the only other party to root for is Sony. And after the business with GeoHot, OtherOS, and the blatant lack of security, I just can't support anything they do.
And their PSN Welcome Back package? I've been hearing people saying that it doesn't work, or works very poorly. That really could've been a great move that Sony apparently decided they didn't feel like working on.
However, if their E3 panel is especially good, I might regain some faith in them.
And their PSN Welcome Back package? I've been hearing people saying that it doesn't work, or works very poorly. That really could've been a great move that Sony apparently decided they didn't feel like working on.
However, if their E3 panel is especially good, I might regain some faith in them.
If you knew anything about hacking then you would know that they obviously did not up their defences if they were hacked by this skiddy internet group. Ive done tons of SQL injection attacks against websites and just by looking at this attack I can tell that an SQL injection is very possible and most likely the method used.Sikratua said:
I can show you an SQL Injected website and you can see for yourself it fits nicely with the results of the attack against Sony by LulzSec. You also seem to paint hackers with a big brush of EVIL INTERNET CITIZENS THEYRE ALL BLACKHATS which is sort of hilarious haha
Sikratua said:
Ahhh, semantics games. Gotta love them.
It's like this, people constantly start trying to expand the definition of terms to include a very broad array of behaviors and activities, until they cease to have the initial meaning, and gradually lose their thunder.
It's sort of like how the UN has extended the definition of Genocide to go beyond the extermination of a race of people, and into the extermination of an idealogy, and so on. Largely so it can yell "Genocide" at anything it doesn't like, and use such a broad definition to justify taking absolute action against any group of people.
Right now there is a jump to broadly define terrorism, so it can be applied to pretty much anyone who uses strong arm tactics for anything. It will get to the point where since we start calling muggers terrorists because of the "literal" definition of the term that nobody much cares. I'm personally waiting for "this guy tried to intimidate me into giving him my wallet so he should be tried as a terrorist" to actually go to court personally.
Up until recently, what was intended when someone said "terrorist" was obvious, you'll notice nobody really tried to go after groups like The Mob as being terrorists, despite running some of the largest scale intimidation rackets ever.
Your pretty much trying to win an arguement by semantics games and trying to argue based on a ridiculously broad literal meaning of a term, rather than how it applies to society, and how it has been applied until there have been recent gains in using the term due to things like The Patriot Act. Had The Patriot Act existed they would have gone after Al Capone as a terrorist rather than trying to prove things like racketeering, and eventually fail so hard that they wound up having to use tax law.
As I see things, what we're dealing with is pretty much vigilantism. The acts are largely being perpetuated because of the failure, or unwillingness of, conventional authorities to deal with the target. What is being done is still wrong, and a crime, as things like this tend to get out of control much more than comic books or science fiction novels, but not really an act of terrorism.
As the term traditionally applies to society I'd be more willing to accept the label of terrorism if say "Lulzsec" was setting off Fertalizer bombs inside places like Sony's Tokyo headquarters, without any real concern for collateral damage.
As far as these activities go, I don't even think there is any real desire to spread general fear, as all of the information stolen has been handled in such a way as to minimize the risk of anything bad happening to anyone. The only people really being leveraged are Sony, everyone else is being inconveinenced more than terrorized.
See, right now all of this publically released information is put out in such a way that it becomes very easy for identity protection services to step in. If they were keeping the stuff to themselves, stealing fortunes in money, etc... and telling people "turn on Sony or we will destroy your lives" that would be more of a terrorist act.
Of course the longer this goes on, the more likely that the system will fail, and someone will exploit that released information before any kind of ID protection can take place, and again that's exactly why things like this aren't quite the cool victimless crimes they are in fiction, someone always gets hurt in the end if they go on.
This reminds me of the story of two dormmates. One never bothered to lock his door whenever he went out to class or such, and the other grew insanely bothered by this. Finally the bothered dormmate decided to just up and go into the first's dorm and removed all of his pricely possessions. When the first returned to find his stuff gone, the second was there to claim responsibility for it, as a lesson to the first to lock his dormroom door.Greg Tito said:
The first immediately called the police and swore out a complaint against the second for burglary and breaking and entering. The second claimed innocence because it was supposed to be a lesson in keeping your dorm secure. That didn't fly with the courts which sentenced him to a couple years in prison, or the college which expelled the second dormmate permanently.
We should have a right to expectation of privacy and security. That security should include feeling comfortable leaving our doors unlocked. Sony did err by not implementing better security to protect their customer's information, but the Lulzboat is still being criminal here, and I hope they are caught and thrown into prison. Truth be told, they would have still tried to do this if Sony did have better encryption and security, but that still doesn't excuse them for the act of trying. If you catch someone trying to pick your deadbolt to your house, you will still call the police, and the intruder will still be incarcerated for the crime.
There simply is no justification to this, none whatsoever. The Lulzboat not only violated Sony's systems, but they also violated every single person whose information was lifted from Sony's database. Their action was petty, immature, and inexcuseable.
This might just put Sony under on the gaming front. Two high-profile hacks within a month or so of one another. Most companies don't come back from that. I know if I could online game I'd be steering away from Sony. One hack, okay, you've still got my good faith. It happens. Two hacks so soon scream of real or unfounded incompetence.
Semantics, my ass. I didn't use "Expanded definitions," whatever the shit that means. I used the actual dictionary definitions. I get it, though. I can up with an arguement to which you can't actually reply, so you try to drown a lack of logical reply in a ever-growing mound of bullshit.Therumancer said:Ahhh, semantics games. Gotta love them.
It's like this, people constantly start trying to expand the definition of terms to include a very broad array of behaviors and activities, until they cease to have the initial meaning, and gradually lose their thunder.
By the way, the difference between "vigilantism" and "terrorism" is whether or not you like the people getting attacked.
I find it deeply offensive that the author feels he can compare a company with almost no security (making sql safe input and encrypting passwords is security 101) getting hacked with a person getting sexually violated or raped. The two are not even near the same.
The victim in this case is not really Sony anyways, it's the users who trusted Sony with their personal information. Sony should be blamed for having such terrible measures to protect their details.
The victim in this case is not really Sony anyways, it's the users who trusted Sony with their personal information. Sony should be blamed for having such terrible measures to protect their details.