SOPA hearing yesterday: There are not enough /facepalms in the world

[Jinx_Dragon]

The president may not have a lot of power, but he still has the power of veto. So even if the bill passes in congress, the president can refuse to sign it into law. And even if it does get signed into law, the Supreme Court is going to take one look at SOPA and respond with "what is this? ...I don't even".

Firstly, Congress can override a veto. This is one of the reasons that Obama's refusal to veto the NDAA in its current state is completely meaningless - it's going to pass either way, and vetoing it would be political suicide given how many people still believe that America is under any manner of military threat. In the NDAA's case, it makes little sense for him to veto it either way because he's been pushing for expansion of powers in much the same way Bush did, but the point stands.

Secondly, go and look at the people currently sitting on the Supreme Court - or, more importantly, who appointed how many of them. Even if Obama WERE of an anti-corporatist bent - which he isn't - the majority of the justices were appointed by Ronald Reagan, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. - three presidents who were essentially defined by corporatism and neonconservatism.

We're talking about the court responsible for Citizens United here (i.e. allowed for corporate financial investment in politics to reach heights such that SOPA could get serious congressional support in the first place) here. The odds of them overturning the very legislation that CU makes possible are very, very slim.

1) To overturn a veto they need the same majority in congress as it takes to pass an amendment to the constitution. Given that it is very difficult to get this majority, more so on a bill so unpopular, it is unlikely they will be able to overturn the veto. If they had that sort of support they would go straight for the amendment option, as it eliminates the law being thrown out by the Supreme Court as well.

2) While it is true the majority of the Supreme Court is right winged fascists whom favor business over all else, I do not feel they will support this bill. Part of this bill will weaken justice oversight for copyright cases. I foresee, in many cases where SOPA is used there will be no court case as it seems to involve pulling the 'copyright infringed material' off-line before you even investigate, let alone file court cases.

Justices don't like being told they can't have a say in something.

3) Of course, I could just be optimistic here seeing this is being pushed through as fast as possible regardless of opposition... very likely they have already bought off the courts. Justices might not like being told they can't have a say in something, but a lot of money makes all that go away.

 

[Griffolion]

Wait, this hasn't been thrown out yet? Oh yeah, America, 0% common sense in Congress. I remember now.

 

[Smagmuck_]

George Washington said Political Parties would be bad for the American Economy...

Looks like we're paying for it now...

 

[Megumi0505]

Wait, this hasn't been thrown out yet? Oh yeah, America, 0% common sense in Congress. I remember now.

We're not a Democracy, Democracy has been dead for a long time now. Government is run by corporations, we're a socialist/facist nation now and have been, it just hasn't been made obvious until recently.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Oh it definitely is. If you watch the talks, it's so blindingly obvious the guys pushing this
are getting money form the media companies. You can even draw that conclusion just by reading

Either that or they're INSANELY stupid.

I'm not sure what's worse, really.

How I WISH it were just stupidity.
Stupidity can be overruled, overwritten, amended, or just voted out of office.
You can't "fix" a stupid individual, but at least in a democratic system, you can replace him/her with someone else.

But those bumbling incumbents arguing over the bill? That was deliberate and planned; an act.
Remember: They have years of political experience and connections to the big businesses that fund (or promise to fund) their campaigns. They aren't stupid. They know what they're doing, and they can't be removed so easily.
Even if you voted them out, and put someone else in, they'd either get marginalized, or just turn into another pawn because that's the only way you can get anything done in DC.

And that assumes the stupid masses are capable of finding someone who would actually represent the public's interest on issues like these. But they aren't. They WAIT for the political parties to make those choices for them from the start; who in turn choose their candidates.

There is absolutely NO justification for the continued hand-waving these serious ramifications away. They have THOUSANDS of experts, concerned citizens, and domestic businesses begging to be heard on the matter, and based on these hearings, the ONLY rational explanation is that they are deliberately ignoring all of them.

SOPA is a bid for incredible legal power, plain and simple.

 

[Griffolion]

Wait, this hasn't been thrown out yet? Oh yeah, America, 0% common sense in Congress. I remember now.

We're not a Democracy, Democracy has been dead for a long time now. Government is run by corporations, we're a socialist/facist nation now and have been, it just hasn't been made obvious until recently.

Yep. We and you (Britan and America) think we have the right to enforce democracy in other countries when it's no where to be seen in our own nations anymore...

 

[kebab4you]

Here's a list [https://boycottcensors.wordpress.com/] of the supporters of this bill. You know, so you can shop appropriately.

For game companies, I see Nintendo, EA, and Sony on there.

If I recall correctly EA and Nintendo is up there because they are in a group(forgot it´s name) that support the bill, I think both of them have backed out of that group as it stands right now and isn't supportive of the bill.

 

[Megumi0505]

The only thing we can do is take up our pitchforks and torches and march to DC.

 

[Justanewguy]

I think its pretty damn funny. You gotta love people who have absolutely no clue about modern technology pretending they do/wanting to influence it anyway.

But hey, its you guys voting these fuckers into place. Considering how much the internet influences the modern world, its beyond me how someone can think its a good idea to put an old fart who cant even use a TV remote properly in charge of it.

Two words. Baby boomers.

I've washed my hands of it. Until those fuckers die off, we're screwed.

 

[SidheKnight]

But it's only being censored in America, right? So I have nohing to worry about?

Hey, I live in Canada, but I'm worried about it. Partly because I don't want our current government getting any ideas, but because I value everyone's freedom. People who don't understand the internet should not be making decisions about regulating it. Period.

^ This.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

That's a good move, another year's worth of heavy net users and people who actually inform themselves and read about current affairs....will be of legal voting age, and looking at the kind of people voting on the bills, about half of the current lot will have died of old age, maybe even making room for some under 80s on the panel.

Yeah, postpone it another year!

Oh, no. By "another year", they mean "next year". As in, right after Christmas break.

/DebbyDowner

 

[jonnosferatu]

Wait, this hasn't been thrown out yet? Oh yeah, America, 0% common sense in Congress. I remember now.

We're not a Democracy, Democracy has been dead for a long time now. Government is run by corporations, we're a socialist/facist nation now and have been, it just hasn't been made obvious until recently.

...no, we're a corporatist oligarchy with mildly jingoistic tendencies. The U.S. is not meaningfully socialistic, and fascism implies a sense of national "brotherhood" reflected in the decisions of the legislature - not to mention that socialism and fascism are fundamentally incompatible ideologies. We're certainly a lot closer to fascism than Democracy (or Socialism), though.

I can kinda relate. We have similar problems here in Germany from time to time, so I know how it feels. I really wasnt trying to insult American voters intelligence for this - god knows theres more than enough valid reasons to do so (joke).

No, completely seriously though. I get it, and it was just a joke. I hope something changes soon and people get at least some amount of control back when it comes to choosing people who represent them.

Oh, American voter intelligence is definitely something to mock, particularly RE: Congress. Right now the approval rating is something like 20%, but we're still going to see 90% retention of senators and representatives because "MY representatives are looking out for my rights! It's all of the other ones who are fucking it up!"

There is absolutely NO justification for the continued hand-waving these serious ramifications away. They have THOUSANDS of experts, concerned citizens, and domestic businesses begging to be heard on the matter, and based on these hearings, the ONLY rational explanation is that they are deliberately ignoring all of them.

Eerily similar to how the current dietary recommendations were introduced...

 

[McNinja]

Congress needs to be replaced with people who know things. Not old dudes so enraptured in politics that they can't fathom life without it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hey, wait a minute. I'm in Vermont! I can now not vote for him! SWEET!

Also, seems it's not postponed until next year.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/16/sopa-delayed-but-not-for-long/

They're really trying to rush this thing through.

Sweet. A few more...A lot more, and maybe it'll make a difference.

I hate to sound cynical, but I think the only reason SOPA's being pushed back is they're hoping they can slip it in next time. This sort of stalling tactic is nothing new. Something's getting protested, so you hope to kick it down the road and go back when nobody's looking.

 

[Something Amyss]

Congress needs to be replaced with people who know things. Not old dudes so enraptured in politics that they can't fathom life without it.

Do you know how much America hates people who know things?

 

[jonnosferatu]

I think its pretty damn funny. You gotta love people who have absolutely no clue about modern technology pretending they do/wanting to influence it anyway.

But hey, its you guys voting these fuckers into place. Considering how much the internet influences the modern world, its beyond me how someone can think its a good idea to put an old fart who cant even use a TV remote properly in charge of it.

Two words. Baby boomers.

I've washed my hands of it. Until those fuckers die off, we're screwed.

And this, though I'm not sure that their exit will make a huge difference - they already started the cascade by putting Reagan in a position of authority for 8 years, and made the situation significantly worse by doing the same with Bush Jr.. At least with Obama you have a guy who abandoned his campaign platform and (effectively) switched political ideologies a year after being elected.

 

[MistahFixIt]

Do you know how much America hates people who know things?

Those durn 'Progressives' an' 'Intellectuals' are gunna ruin our country!

Seriously though, how can being described as an 'intellectual' be a form of political assassination?!

 

[Megumi0505]

I remember reading that there were lobbyists who have vowed to filibuster the bill to death.

Edit: Oh, Senator Wyden is planning to read a list of names for hours to try and delay the vote and kill the bill. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2130677/anti-sopa-filibuster-list-million