Sounds like trump is planning on nominating someone named Amy Coney Barrett to the supreme court.

[gorfias]

hmm.



But then there would be no profit!



A less 'activist' court is likely to allow the government to be more intrusive on your personal decisions, not less. For example, the right of privacy recognized by Roe v. Wade protects people from government intrusion whatever you want to say about there being such a right in the Constitution or not. For all the talk of 'hallucinating preferences into law', an inactive court will allow the legislative and executive branches to simply write their preferences into law regardless of the Constitution.

To paraphrase Ann Coulter, being judicial and being a judicial activist are 2 different things.
I am pro choice. But I can imagine what it must have been like to believe abortion a grievous socially destructive wrong with a very public impact, oppose it, but be told: sorry, you don't get to vote on this anymore. They've "discovered" a right existing like an emanation of a penumbra heretofore unseen in the US Constitution. That has to be something that could radicalize someone.
Even Ginsburg worried about this. The pro choice crowd simply used power and bullied people, forcing them to accept this new social order rather than convince people through the political process.
So now, we're still arguing about it. It's one of the most contentious matters when picking a justice: will they maintain the legal hallucinations or not?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

To paraphrase Ann Coulter, being judicial and being a judicial activist are 2 different things.
I am pro choice. But I can imagine what it must have been like to believe abortion a grievous socially destructive wrong with a very public impact, oppose it, but be told: sorry, you don't get to vote on this anymore. They've "discovered" a right existing like an emanation of a penumbra heretofore unseen in the US Constitution. That has to be something that could radicalize someone.
Even Ginsburg worried about this. The pro choice crowd simply used power and bullied people, forcing them to accept this new social order rather than convince people through the political process.
So now, we're still arguing about it. It's one of the most contentious matters when picking a justice: will they maintain the legal hallucinations or not?

EVERYTHING, LITERALLY FUCKING EVERYTHING, IS A LEGAL HALLUCINATION. LAWS ARE FAKE. You will never get consensus in a population of 350 million people. You will never get consensus in a population of 100 people. Letting people make their own choices for healthcare is more freedom, not less. You do not get to vote to force somebody into indentured servitude for an entity that does not yet exist, that's the rule. It's been settled law for 47 years and we still have nut jobs preferring to charge everyone who has a miscarriage with manslaughter due to religious fanaticism. Contrary to apparently popular belief, subjecting the United States to evangelical rule is both bad *and* unconstitutional.

YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH FANATICISM. YOU ARE ARGUING THAT THE MAJORITY ACCEPT MINORITY RULE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. FOR SOMETHING THAT THE MAJORITY VIEWS AS A "GRIEVOUS SOCIALLY DESTRUCTIVE WRONG WITH A VERY PUBLIC IMPACT"

"But what about interracial marriage", you say, "It was made legal long before the majority was okay with it". And you'd be right. The main difference is exactly how clear the 14th amendment is on the subject.

 

[Silvanus]

hmm.

In 2017 3 Democratic Senators voted for her, 2 abstained, and 40 voted against. He's missing it because it didn't happen in any meaningful sense.

 

[Seanchaidh]

In 2017 3 Democratic Senators voted for her, 2 abstained, and 40 voted against. He's missing it because it didn't happen in any meaningful sense.

Why did 3 vote yes? Any amount of Democratic Party support of such judges is meaningful because it can make the difference between confirmation and not.

 

[Silvanus]

Why did 3 vote yes? Any amount of Democratic Party support of such judges is meaningful because it can make the difference between confirmation and not.

I have no idea; presumably because not every Senator from a party thinks and feels the same way. But the vast majority think and feel the same way you do on this, so it seems a bit misdirected to vaguely blame "Democrats", and curse out the 40 for the actions of the 3.

Almost no party anywhere gets 100% party-line support for an agenda, progressive or otherwise. If they insisted on it in order for someone to be a representative, the party would fall apart.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Almost no party anywhere gets 100% party-line support for an agenda, progressive or otherwise. If they insisted on it in order for someone to be a representative, the party would fall apart.

52 out of 52 Republicans voted yea.

 

[lil devils x]

52 out of 52 Republicans voted yea.

You already know the answer, there is no political party in power in the US that is made up of a single group.
Democrats = Conservatives, Moderates and Progressives
Republicans = Conservatives, Moderates and Far Right.
Conservatives are the largest group in the US, so they get votes from both parties.

No single group in the US can win or gain power without banding together with other groups. Due to the GOP's ability to easily unite to accomplish their goals, the democrats are forced to scrape every possible other group to come together to stop them. If Democrats fail to do that, they always lose, thus why we have Trump, 200+ anti-progressive federal judges, and Trump's shiny new pray away the gay supreme court justices to all rule any future progressive agenda unconstitutional.

That is what happens when progressives refuse to join the democrats to stop them. You would think that sooner or later progressives would finally "get it" and understand that we are who are harmed the most if we let the GOP get what they want. As a progressive, I need democrats more than they need me, because the conservative and moderate democrats aren't hurt by this, but what I want to be able to accomplish here definitely is since I want universal healthcare, UBI, living wages, end to poverty and homelessness. None of that can happen if conservative judges rule that all unconstitutional.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I have no idea; presumably because not every Senator from a party thinks and feels the same way. But the vast majority think and feel the same way you do on this, so it seems a bit misdirected to vaguely blame "Democrats", and curse out the 40 for the actions of the 3.

Almost no party anywhere gets 100% party-line support for an agenda, progressive or otherwise. If they insisted on it in order for someone to be a representative, the party would fall apart.

Because the next vote it will be a different 3. And then a different 3 after that, and those 40 will get whittled down quickly.

It should also be mentioned that one of those 3 was nearly the vice president. There will always be a different batch of Democrats to "break with the party" and foil efforts, and the charade that the party in general deserves sympathy will continue, despite it being the leaders and big names in the party that foil efforts at any time.

 

[lil devils x]

Because the next vote it will be a different 3. And then a different 3 after that, and those 40 will get whittled down quickly.

It should also be mentioned that one of those 3 was nearly the vice president. There will always be a different batch of Democrats to "break with the party" and foil efforts, and the charade that the party in general deserves sympathy will continue, despite it being the leaders and big names in the party that foil efforts at any time.

"The party in general" isn't even a united group, it is just a bunch of people with differing plans, policies, opinions who have only agreed to unite for the sole purpose of beating the GOP, who mind you is actively trying to kill off the poor and middle class. Uniting just to stop them from killing people isn't asking for sympathy at all. No one wants to give them " sympathy" . The only reason why anyone joins with the democrats is because it is the only option we have to stop the GOP from implementing their horrific policies. Nothing more can be expected until we no longer have the threat of the GOP being able to do that. Bernie's' plan was to Have a democrat majority and TAKE OVER the democrats one seat at a time so that we can control the electoral college and change these things long term. Some people ignorantly think that Bernie being president was the important action here, it isn't. Not at all. We have to flip one district at a time with people on the ground there changing minds, we are NOT expecting democrats to pay for that, we have to pay for it as we are actually trying to unseat them ourselves and take their place. You expect the existing democrats to not fight for their seats? of course they will. Not enough people have been willing to do that yet however, so we have not been as effective at this as we need to be. Once we get enough districts flipped then we will be able to get much more done faster. Until then we just get baby steps if we are lucky.

The thing I see most misunderstood is people complaining that " the democrats didn't support our progressive candidate trying to take them over" Like why would they? Of course they don't, we are trying to take them over against their will so you EXPECT them to fight it. People using that as a stupid excuse not to support them just means they don't understand what is going on. The MOST important thing is we have to make sure GOP can never win. THAT is more important than anything else we do. Second, we have to keep trying to flip moderate and conservative districts so that we get more progressives in the party, but we can expect to not have democrat support to do that, we have to be able to do that on our own and EXPECT democrats to fight us tooth and nail the entire way. That is how we make progress. If we want anything to change in our lifetimes, this is the only path we have. Bernie finally kicked down the door and gave us a path, we just have to be smart enough to take it.

It is like everyone has short term memory loss. Bernie screams "I have been third party my entire life and I can tell you IT DOESN' T WORK The ONLY way we can change this is if we hostile take over the democrats! " He told us it was going to be hard, and that we will have to put up the fight of our lives to do it, but it will work. Then people stupidly ask, " why won't the democrats help us take them over?" .. Seriously? It is like everyone has amnesia and forgot that they aren't supposed to help us do this, we have to do it on our own. People keep forgetting the game plan the second we take the field.

 

[Revnak]

"The party in general" isn't even a united group, it is just a bunch of people with differing plans, policies, opinions who have only agreed to unite for the sole purpose of beating the GOP, who mind you is actively trying to kill off the poor and middle class. Uniting just to stop them from killing people isn't asking for sympathy at all. No one wants to give them " sympathy" . The only reason why anyone joins with the democrats is because it is the only option we have to stop the GOP from implementing their horrific policies. Nothing more can be expected until we no longer have the threat of the GOP being able to do that. Bernie's' plan was to Have a democrat majority and TAKE OVER the democrats one seat at a time so that we can control the electoral college and change these things long term. Some people ignorantly think that Bernie being president was the important action here, it isn't. Not at all. We have to flip one district at a time with people on the ground there changing minds, we are NOT expecting democrats to pay for that, we have to pay for it as we are actually trying to unseat them ourselves and take their place. You expect the existing democrats to not fight for their seats? of course they will. Not enough people have been willing to do that yet however, so we have not been as effective at this as we need to be. Once we get enough districts flipped then we will be able to get much more done faster. Until then we just get baby steps if we are lucky.

The thing I see most misunderstood is people complaining that " the democrats didn't support our progressive candidate trying to take them over" Like why would they? Of course they don't, we are trying to take them over against their will so you EXPECT them to fight it. People using that as a stupid excuse not to support them just means they don't understand what is going on. The MOST important thing is we have to make sure GOP can never win. THAT is more important than anything else we do. Second, we have to keep trying to flip moderate and conservative districts so that we get more progressives in the party, but we can expect to not have democrat support to do that, we have to be able to do that on our own and EXPECT democrats to fight us tooth and nail the entire way. That is how we make progress. If we want anything to change in our lifetimes, this is the only path we have. Bernie finally kicked down the door and gave us a path, we just have to be smart enough to take it.

It is like everyone has short term memory loss. Bernie screams "I have been third party my entire life and I can tell you IT DOESN' T WORK The ONLY way we can change this is if we hostile take over the democrats! " He told us it was going to be hard, and that we will have to put up the fight of our lives to do it, but it will work. Then people stupidly ask, " why won't the democrats help us take them over?" .. Seriously? It is like everyone has amnesia and forgot that they aren't supposed to help us do this, we have to do it on our own. People keep forgetting the game plan the second we take the field.

You cannot ensure the Republicans always lose without proposing actual solutions and enacting them. That’s not how any representative democracy works. You can’t just say the other side is worse forever and not expect power to just bounce back and forth as people’s problems just get worse.
In any case, this is all too little too late. We’ve been screwed for a decade at least and this is all just the consequence of our system’s inevitable failings finally derailing the train and jettisoning us all into hell. And nobody with any power to stop it has any intention of doing so.

 

[lil devils x]

You cannot ensure the Republicans always lose without proposing actual solutions and enacting them. That’s not how any representative democracy works. You can’t just say the other side is worse forever and not expect power to just bounce back and forth as people’s problems just get worse.
In any case, this is all too little too late. We’ve been screwed for a decade at least and this is all just the consequence of our system’s inevitable failings finally derailing the train and jettisoning us all into hell. And nobody with any power to stop it has any intention of doing so.

Proposing what solutions and enacting them? Without a majority, we can't enact anything. We haven't had a majority yet since Bernie kicked in their door.

Does anyone have to even say that the other side is worse? People have eyes don't they? It has only been 4 years since Bernie kicked in their door... not a decade. You forgot the gameplan in just 4 years?

"Too little too late" is not an excuse for us to do nothing.
People are just sitting around complaining about everyone else while doing nothing to fix it themselves? It isn't going to change itself, we have to be the one's to change it, no one is going to do it for us. It isn't " someone else's job" , it is ours.

 

[Revnak]

Proposing what solutions and enacting them? Without a majority, we can't enact anything. We haven't had a majority yet since Bernie kicked in their door.

Does anyone have to even say that the other side is worse? People have eyes don't they? It has only been 4 years since Bernie kicked in their door... not a decade. You forgot the gameplan in just 4 years?

"Too little too late" is not an excuse for us to do nothing.
People are just sitting around complaining about everyone else while doing nothing to fix it themselves? It isn't going to change itself, we have to be the one's to change it, no one is going to do it for us. It isn't " someone else's job" , it is ours.

It’s not too late to do something else but it is too late for this scheme. You’re forgetting Obama ran as a left-wing party outsider in 2008 then nothing changed. That is the decade ago I am referring to.

 

[lil devils x]

It’s not too late to do something else but it is too late for this scheme. You’re forgetting Obama ran as a left-wing party outsider in 2008 then nothing changed. That is the decade ago I am referring to.

Obama ran as a left wing party outsider? That is news to me. He was like moderate at MOST, conservative on a good number of issues. I have never actually heard anyone call Obama leftwing,. Maybe republicans called him that? and he was solidly democrat. Bernie is an Independent and did more than I ever expected him to be able to. It isn't too late for Bernie's plan here, the first time he tried he got farther and accomplished more than we ever expected him to be able to. I think you are giving up too quickly. People are still trying to accomplish this goal, they just need us to stay in the game and give them the support they require to do so.

Progressives snatch much-needed wins in primary gauntlet

Groups like Justice Democrats were eager for victory after a string of high-profile losses.

www.politico.com

Nothing is ever going to change if we don't. Yea this means " go blue no matter who" in the general election, but our fights are in the primaries to shift them left. Once elected though we have to pressure democrats to enact left policies. Our work doesn't end with the election, we still have to help get legislation passed by contacting our reps ONCE we have a majority. We can't even manage to get a majority though. No majority = progressives hands are tied entirely and nothing can get done at all. If you're looking for an easy answer here, there isn't one. We have to fight for every inch we can get and not give up when there are set backs. We expect setbacks, that just means we have to work harder.

 

[Silvanus]

Because the next vote it will be a different 3. And then a different 3 after that, and those 40 will get whittled down quickly.

OK, let's unpack this a bit. Are you coyly implying that all those Democratic Senators have made some secret agreement on this basis?

You're using this idea to condemn Senators who haven't actually acted untoward in any way. Because... you've offered sheer conjecture that they'll do so in future? A wink-and-nudge suggestion of a conspiracy?

It should also be mentioned that one of those 3 was nearly the vice president. There will always be a different batch of Democrats to "break with the party" and foil efforts, and the charade that the party in general deserves sympathy will continue, despite it being the leaders and big names in the party that foil efforts at any time.

The confirmation would have passed with or without those three. This is a conspiracy theory without a purpose.

52 out of 52 Republicans voted yea.

Yes, you'll have 100% support for a vote or two. But not consistently. The Democrats also sometimes have 100% support in a vote, of course.

Out of interest, what do you believe the party should do? Demand 100% party-line obedience on all votes in order for somebody to be a congressman for the party? And if one or two fail to meet that standard, the party is tainted?

 

[Revnak]

Obama ran as a left wing party outsider? That is news to me. He was like moderate at MOST, conservative on a good number of issues. I have never actually heard anyone call Obama leftwing,. Maybe republicans called him that? and he was solidly democrat. Bernie is an Independent and did more than I ever expected him to be able to. It isn't too late for Bernie's plan here, the first time he tried he got farther and accomplished more than we ever expected him to be able to. I think you are giving up too quickly. People are still trying to accomplish this goal, they just need us to stay in the game and give them the support they require to do so.

Progressives snatch much-needed wins in primary gauntlet

Groups like Justice Democrats were eager for victory after a string of high-profile losses.

www.politico.com

Nothing is ever going to change if we don't. Yea this means " go blue no matter who" in the general election, but our fights are in the primaries to shift them left. Once elected though we have to pressure democrats to enact left policies. Our work doesn't end with the election, we still have to help get legislation passed by contacting our reps ONCE we have a majority. We can't even manage to get a majority though. No majority = progressives hands are tied entirely and nothing can get done at all. If you're looking for an easy answer here, there isn't one. We have to fight for every inch we can get and not give up when there are set backs. We expect setbacks, that just means we have to work harder.

Ran as. Not addressing the rest because I don’t care.

 

[lil devils x]

Ran as. Not addressing the rest because I don’t care.

Not caring gets things done! That is how it got this bad in the first place.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Obama ran as a left wing party outsider? That is news to me. He was like moderate at MOST, conservative on a good number of issues. I have never actually heard anyone call Obama leftwing,

Not from the US, but the impression in Australia before the election was that he was supposed to be. A lot of that was due to being the first black PotUS and not Bush, though.

 

[lil devils x]

Not from the US, but the impression in Australia before the election was that he was supposed to be. A lot of that was due to being the first black PotUS and not Bush, though.

Where I live, most blacks are pretty conservative, so I don't automatically link the two, but yea, even Clinton looks left wing compared to Bush

 

[Seanchaidh]

Out of interest, what do you believe the party should do? Demand 100% party-line obedience on all votes in order for somebody to be a congressman for the party? And if one or two fail to meet that standard, the party is tainted?

The party should absolutely cull its Joe Manchins.

 

[lil devils x]

The party should absolutely cull its Joe Manchins.

As long as we can still win his district.