South Park As A Gated Community

[Casual Shinji]

My biggest problem with South Park is still they criticize Family Guy for having a lot or random jokes, when South park themselves can only think up one each episode.

It long passes the point of beating a dead horse by the end of the episode. "Yes, I know, this pop culture thing you enlightened me to is stupid. I get it, now think of something else to entertain me or go back to actually telling stories."

I think's because South Park atleast tries to make it work and have a point, whereas Family Guy just seems to be throwing in random jokes to eat up time. Especially when it's jokes that are stretched out for like 5 minutes.

My favourite Family Guy episode (if there could ever be one) is probably the one where Brian and Stewie get locked up in the bank vault. And the reason is because it actually tries to tell a story and doesn't have a cutaway gag every two minutes.

 

[wizzy555]

The problem with Bob of late is that he presents narrative without logic.

Hence its embrace of the above-metaphor'd "attack everyone equally" fallacy; which is a fallacy precisely because it presumes that everyone is both deserving of attack and deserving of the same attack. It's the same introverted, reductive reasoning employed by the guy who really, really wants to know why black people can say The N-Word and he cannot. "Park's" present-day issue, though, is with the P-Word: Privilege. The pleas for civility and middle-ground sound, as the series trudges on, less like "a pox on both your houses!" directed at squabbling special interests and closer to "will you damn kids keep that racket down?" directed at anyone who thinks anything is worth fighting over.

This for instance is requires explanation as to why it is a fallacy as without it is begging the question (assuming that Bob's thesis is right in the first place).

But of course I'm probably using "reductive reasoning" which is invalid this week for some reason.

 

[rbstewart7263]

This is an interesting read. partly because it talks about me. and I have always wanted to read about myself on the internet.(points if you get the reference)

Ill be honest yeah im that guy. the one who is both white and straight and wonders why people get uppity over one word or the other. I also tend to agree with south park. I like that they can call out both sides of an issue. this is because in americae extremes are valued which means that parker and stone can do this ad infinite. But heres the thing about ideals(like yours bob or matt and treys or mine) It doesnt really matter how many people believe something. even if you are a minority of one. the truth is the truth.Ghandi said that. If Matt and stone have something to say about something pertaining to minorities then we should hear them instead of falling back on the old "there white so they dont get it cop out." argue them on the merit of what there saying bob not on there skin or sexual preference.

I also have a problem with the idea that straight white men have little to offer in discourse in regard to things dealing with non white non straight people. One should always value an outsiders viewpoint and this ideal can go BOTH ways(see what I did there.lol) If the only time you listen to straight white people in regards to civil rights issues is when they agree with whatever it is "insert civil rights group here" says then perhaps your the closed minded one and not them.On the other side of that fence a man who is gay can have hidden insight for the life of his straight friend.

Often times when arguments about whats appropriate and whats not comes up people tend to make alot of assumptions that are not true when held to the test of real life. for example.

white people shouldnt make gay,straight,women jokes etc: this ones tired. Not every black person flies off the handle when you do this. some do, some laugh because they get that its a joke simple as that. pick your time and place and always be respectful sure. But lets quit pretending that said thing is offensive all the time to all the people of said demographic.

Rape jokes are always offensive and innapropriate and if you find them funny you must not have been through the experience:
Not as tired but an opposite stance is deserving here. Some women who have been raped find rape jokes both entertaining and a good way to deal with what they have dealt with. If you want to debate whether such a thing is healthy thats fair.go ahead but dont be afraid to go in the other direction too.

Said word is offensive all the time to said group: Im sorry not every gay person finds the f word offensive or the n word being offensive to every black person. Some people hold to the ideal that if you consistantly use a word over time it loses its value. Now I understand alot of people love to try and debunk this but often times without any scientific basis. Often times they use the idea that such a thing is tired and without merit as proof enough that such a thing is fallacious.

So what of the people black, white,gay and straight, male and female who dont readily subscribe to these views? will they have a voice too or not? will they be recognized as people with ideas of there own or brushed off and ignored in favor of your own view/views?

Edit: its 8 am so let me end this with this. Sometimes bob does stand for lesser known views. ive seen him do it with his videos on metroid other m and sucker punch as well as bayonetta. all ideas that were very residual with me. So I dont want to imply that all of these ideas that im debating are in fact his(unless they are I guess) honestly its late for me( third shift) so I may end up deleting this myself if I wake and find that while I hold these ideas valid the debate may not be appropriate here.

Also theres some grain of truth to his example of the guy on the bus.some.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

Just awful. You're acting as if South Park considers themselves high and mighty protectors of satire. They are crude, they mock prominent world issues, point them out as absurd and put in fart jokes. Its not refined, its not pretentious, its crude silliness. They mock themselves and their hypocritical nature as much as anything. This is just another case of making mountains out of mohills and IT comes off as pretentious.

 

[MB202]

You know, even though Bob says he likes South Park, lately he's been more and more prone to putting it down for being so pretentious. Fair enough, you can still like something while criticizing it, though it does leave me a little confused at times... if a little amused all the same, because Bob is totally, totally right.

 

[Kameburger]

I want to somehow find a way to say this respectfully because I really like 90% of what you (MovieBob) do. I want you to keep making 'The Big Picture' and to keep writing article. I have been compelled however to point out that I really feel like you're missing the point of South park and Matt and Trey's point of view to begin with.

My credentials, as much as you may hate people like me, are that I have not missed an episode of South Park since I was 9 years old and the 1st episode premiered. For what is worth before anyone says it. I am not a delinquent kid and I would challenge anyone to say that this has impacted my life negatively. My point is this, I've watched every single episode of South Park, over and over and over and over and over again and I can tell you that, as someone who watches your shows regularly, I feel often that you grossly oversimplify South Park, and don't give them enough credit for a lot of the time making valid points, boiled down into very simple seeming concepts.

The vote or die episode for instance, was not suggesting as you put it "voting wasn't really that important." What they were saying in this episode is that it is wrong to emotionally blackmailing and manipulating people into participating in the democratic process is wrong especially if your only goal is to get them to agree with you. This is evident when Stan say's Defiantly: "I am not going to be persuaded into voting and I am not going to be threatened into voting if I don't feel comfortable with it." The douche and turd sandwich simplifications are to say that, to people who aren't really sure about voting, no one is looking to particularly great and the episode them was that being pushed into voting when you're not sure is really uncomfortable.

Your writing in this case suggests subtly to me that you might be one of those who believe that the "undecided voter" is some kind of mythical being and that any intelligent human being votes for the same thing you do, and if you're undecided at this stage you're an idiot. That is to say that you might resent South Park because you believe that often South Park ends up suggesting that both sides are stupid when you believe that only one side is.

I am not suggesting that one can get all their political ideologies from South Park but at the same time, there are times when Family Guy has taken some extreme random pop shots at conservatives, and they do feel amazingly out of place, because the general mood over there seems to be that there is no absurdity in the democratic camp.

You said once in your previous 'Big Picture' Rant on South Park, that you believed that South Park had no over arching ideology, and I would say that while this is a fair to some extent, I think that there is one point that is completely consistent in every episode: Anyone who believes that they're way is the only way is stupid and worth ripping a new one.

Either way, I hope I didn't offend you as I tried be as respectful as possible and I want to be constructive too.
I'm asking you to please try and take another look. Often there are brilliant gems that we miss because we watch only once.
I'm looking forward to the next 'Big Picture,' Big Fan!

 

[Saltyk]

I still love South Park. Their last episodes on the election were both hilarious. I loved the idea that Obama and McCain were actually jewel thieves and the entire election was a shame to distract everyone just long enough for them to steal the Hope Diamond.

Likewise I liked the idea that the entire election came down to protecting the Star Wars property from Disney. It's so surreal that you can't not laugh at those concepts.

Also, I like that everyone is free game. It means they aren't blinded by some political alignment. Nor do they embrace the popular concepts of people or politicians. Bush has been shown with more intelligence than most of America and Obama has been shown to act in petty ways. Not defying or demonizing someone, even in the face of popular conceptions, is one reason I do enjoy them.

This is the show that had an entire episode whose message effectively amounted to "Bono is a giant piece of shit".

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Let's review:

1) I open the article.
2) I see Bob bashing South Park for having the "nerve" to attack a liberal over his homophobic rants on social media.
3) I note that this is the same MovieBob who defends Family Guy as quality material, even though it tugs a blatantly liberal bias throughout all of its content.

Stay hypocritical, Bob.

Not that I'd expect you to understand hypocrisy, after all, you basically get a free pass on this site by virtue of being their incarnation of the "anti-Yahtzee", effectively functioning as the overly-pro-Nintendo Yin to Yahtzee's overly-anti-Nintendo Yang.

So it's cool for Family Guy to tastelessly attack conservatives with insults that go so far as to place McCain campaign buttons on Nazis (yes, really), but when South Park takes jabs at a liberal, WOH NOW, that's just a bridge too far!

Like the guy that plays Chef in Southpark. Had no problem insulting Christians, Muslims, Jews etc etc But as soon as they pick on Scientology Chef takes his ball and goes home. Now that is hypocritical. Cant be able to accept insulting others and ***** about it when they do it to you. Both in religion, politics or anything else.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Kind of reminds me when South Park was forced to edit out a picture of Mohammad. Clearly this is just as offensive.

Bob, I am disappoint

I think at one point they stuck him in a bear costume. lol.

 

[AkaDad]

The more I read stuff from Moviebob, the more apparent it becomes that he believes conservatism in any form is completely evil, whereas Liberalism is the savior of the earth.

Bob, you do understand that both ideologies have flaws, right? How come, whenever a show dares to take a shot at the Democratic party, you're always there to discredit it? And yet, when Family Guy, a show that compares the GOP with Nazism (as other posters have already pointed out), you'll defend it with your dying breath?

Newsflash: Both parties are just as full of political scumbags as the other. Nobody on this planet deserves a free pass from criticism, not you, not South Park, not Family Guy, and not Democrats/Liberals (or Conservatives).

I'm sure you're a very nice guy in person, but I just can't understand this righteous position you've taken.

Has Bob ever said that he believes conservatism in any form is completely evil, whereas Liberalism is the savior of the earth? I've never heard him say that, so either you're psychic or lying.

I've been following politics for over 30 years, I've seen both governing philosophies at work, and if you compare Liberal governance to Conservative governance, Liberal governance has better outcomes. Compare The People's Republic of Massachusetts to any Conservative state in the south for proof.

 

[Fordo]

Bob, not sure why i'm writing this. I don't think you'll be able to read it from upon high. =P

South Park is still one of the most thoughtful, smart, and brilliant shows on TV... name me a more cut-throat and competitive market. Comparing the directions other animated legacy shows like the Simpsons have gone, I am very grateful that Stone and Parker have consistently built a show which stays brilliant and true to its roots.

Let's also not forget unlike other legacy shows, every episode of South Park is available for viewing at any time for FREE on their website... since the beginning. I'm not sure what you're really trying to complain about but I'm excited to see your explanation told in a future "The Big Picture" ... speaking of a series that has taken a turn since its original development...

 

[Signa]

Hm, all I can say is I wish I didn't read this article, because I disagree so thoroughly that I'd likely get myself banned like that guy in the second post.

I did agree with one thing. South Park's opinion on new news doesn't matter much to me anymore, because it has fallen from where it used to be.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

The more I read stuff from Moviebob, the more apparent it becomes that he believes conservatism in any form is completely evil, whereas Liberalism is the savior of the earth.

Bob, you do understand that both ideologies have flaws, right? How come, whenever a show dares to take a shot at the Democratic party, you're always there to discredit it? And yet, when Family Guy, a show that compares the GOP with Nazism (as other posters have already pointed out), you'll defend it with your dying breath?

Newsflash: Both parties are just as full of political scumbags as the other. Nobody on this planet deserves a free pass from criticism, not you, not South Park, not Family Guy, and not Democrats/Liberals (or Conservatives).

I'm sure you're a very nice guy in person, but I just can't understand this righteous position you've taken.

Has Bob ever said that he believes conservatism in any form is completely evil, whereas Liberalism is the savior of the earth? I've never heard him say that, so either you're psychic or lying.

I've been following politics for over 30 years, I've seen both governing philosophies at work, and if you compare Liberal governance to Conservative governance, Liberal governance has better outcomes. Compare The People's Republic of Massachusetts to any Conservative state in the south for proof.

Check out his "American Bob" shows on youtube. If you just go by what he says on this site you pick up a moderate liberal leaning that is fairly reasonable and harmless, but in "American Bob" he is downright scary how much he hates the conservative viewpoint or really anyone that doesn't think the way he does. They are really bad. In those he is basically the liberal version of Rush Limbaugh.

I still like his shows on this site but seeing him in that light certainly made it a little bit harder.

Just to clarify I don't take issue with the fact that he is liberal or that he takes strong positions on issues, but with the way he expresses it and absolutely demonizes those of opposing viewpoints. It really is as simple and clean cut as good vs. evil in his eyes and that is simply not a healthy or accurate way to approach politics.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I think there are a lot of places where it makes sense to talk about "white male privilege". You know where it doesn't make sense to bring it up? Everywhere. It's gotten to where I immediately stop reading (or respecting, anyways) any article on this site the moment the word "privilege" appears because chances are very, very good the author is misusing/abusing the concept.

For the record, not everyone who reacts negatively to the word is living in some bubble. Some of us white males who flinch at the mention of "privilege" are actually annoyed that it is rapidly becoming (around these parts, anyways) a generally accepted catch-all rebuttal anywhere you find a white man expressing an opinion. It is, essentially, an ad hominem attack in the majority of internet arguments where it is deployed. Believe it or not, any group of people is going to rail against a systemic mechanism for refutation of any and all ideas on the basis of criteria said demographic cannot control. This doesn't suddenly become okay in those instances where the mechanism is in response to another mechanism.

 

[Bruce]

I can't stand South Park because it essentially immunises itself from criticism by mocking 'both sides' without ever actually dealing with the issues at the heart of the argument.

Because it tries to piss off everyone it ends up pissing off no-one, and gets kudos for it because it gives people an excuse to feel superior while doing nothing to earn it.

Never taking a "side" means never doing anything about anything.

The reason I use scare quotes around "side" here is because in real terms there are no real "sides" to any topic, there are the facts, and what people choose to do about them.

 

[Verlander]

I like all the conservatives coming out of the cracks to attack Bob and his "liberal" bias. Bob ain't no liberal, not by a long shot.

Where South Park gets it so right, and where South Park Republicans, MobieBob, and 99% of the posters on this thread get it wrong, is that they accept (and exploit) weaknesses in all political stances. You can only strengthen your own outlook by exploring the weaknesses in your own argument, and accepting the viewpoint of the opposition as legitimate. Not met a self proclaimed left or right wing commenter that does that yet, which is why both positions are wrong (and so easy to mock).

As for all those who mistakenly labour under the illusion that Matt/Trey/South Park are "right wing" or even libertarian, I'd bet a sizable chunk that you are just tuning out the mockery of the right wing that those guys do (perhaps because it's such an easier target, you've heard it all before.

 

[wizzy555]

I can't stand South Park because it essentially immunises itself from criticism by mocking 'both sides' without ever actually dealing with the issues at the heart of the argument.

Because it tries to piss off everyone it ends up pissing off no-one, and gets kudos for it because it gives people an excuse to feel superior while doing nothing to earn it.

Never taking a "side" means never doing anything about anything.

The reason I use scare quotes around "side" here is because in real terms there are no real "sides" to any topic, there are the facts, and what people choose to do about them.

South Park does take sides, it makes points all the time (free speech etc). It doesn't pick a side on many things because neither side seems adequate to them. And yes, endorsing the status quo is not intellectual or political cowardice. It is a conclusion that can come from as much consideration as anything else.

 

[Aulleas123]

The interesting thing is that Southpark is fairly politically neutral, I don't want to say moderate because I feel that means that they don't have opinions, which isn't the case. The creators have opinions and they express them, it's just that they take some opinions on the left, some on the right, and some that are a combination of the two. That's the thing that people really like about the show and, if people don't like it, they are willing to admit that it's one of the show's redeeming qualities.

However, the sad part is that even though the show has a fairly neutral bias, it's deemed as conservative because it admits that Republicans sometimes have the right of it. It's a show that's willing to say that "maybe neither Bush nor Obama are idiots, that they were just doing what they thought was right" then gets a rash of crap because they dare to give a compliment to Bush. As someone who is fairly neutral on issues myself (agreeing with things from both sides and disagreeing with both as well) I admit that it's very nice to see something that I can both laugh at in humor and acknowledge a respected viewpoint.

I'm not writing this to agree with Bob here, I don't think that he's right to go after Southpark because they do what they always do in expressing their opinions. I know that Family Guy and the Simpsons has a fairly left bias and I suppose that people just look for their political leanings for complete entertainment (I enjoy Family Guy and Simpsons too but I don't always agree with their messages or their expression of their opinions). In fact, with that understanding, I can't hold it against Bob to give some shows a free pass, I don't think that he's a hypocrite for doing this, but I think that he should've left it at "I didn't really care for this episode, maybe next week will be better".

I'm primarily writing this to express my amusement that people in entertainment have gone ballistic over people poking fun of progressive liberals, even if those same folks make fun of reactive conservatives.

 

[Doopliss64]

I find South Park's "everyone is equally wrong, so just cool it" attitude refreshing. Honestly, in this era of ever-increasing political polarization, this is a message that desperately needs to be reinforced. Sometimes, the best way to make progress is put your overzealous emotional factionalism aside and just take in the objective absurdity of both sides from an outsider's perspective.

Unfortunately, Bob is just a very opinionated person. At the risk of unfairly calling him out personally, I would say that the mentality he exemplifies is the primary reason for the political gridlock making America so ineffectual right now at dealing with its problems. Everyone just refuses to even consider the possibility that they could *gasp* be wrong about something, and will instead fight to the death over issues that they have no stake in and are unqualified to be debating.

Edit: Sorry about my wordiness, I just wrote a research essay and the whole "vocabulary soup bullshit filler" habit is hard to shake off.

Whereas your attitude of "I'm the only one that's right because I don't have an opinion" solves everything doesn't it? Not taking a side and just laughing at anyone who is passionate about their beliefs is exactly why america becomes more and more divided. Saying that finding a "middle ground" is ALWAYS the best solution only passes the problem further down the road. The longer it waits the angrier people get. Sometimes there IS a right side and a wrong side.

So, you're saying that finding the middle ground is what is dividing America? How does that make sense?

And besides, I'm not saying that you can't have a strong opinion. What I'm saying is that it's okay to have an opinion, so long as you are open to the possibility that it could be wrong. Arguing that people shouldn't be deadset in their opinions is not the same as telling them not to have opinions.

In addition, I don't mean to say that South Park's "everyone is equally wrong" philosophy is 100% correct, just that it is an interesting and useful alternate way of looking at things that many political extremists should be exposed to.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I was pretty late to the South Park craze, but have grown to appreciate it more and more in the last 5 years or so. I love that they make fun of both sides of a topic, pointing flaws on both sides, usually giving a more toned-down and rational version of each side, then do something crazy or offensive to keep it light.

And about this bit-
"Ugh. Can't wait to see Parker and Stone willfully miss the point on THIS in order to prove how much cooler than their reflexively-liberal Hollywood colleagues they still are!"

Just because they don't pander to the left wing doesn't mean they are missing the point to assert they're superiority. They just recognize that there are flaws on both sides of issues. If there weren't flaws on both sides, they'd be easily dealt with and wouldn't be issues anymore.

So yea, I don't agree with the point bob was trying to make.

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