Speed Runner Beats Ocarina of Time in Less Than 19 Minutes

[Hero of Lime]

I didn't realize it would be such a polarizing opinion, but I am not a fan of saying someone "beat a game" when using glitches to skip 99 percent of the game. Is it impressive? Yes, but it feels wrong to me to say that a glitched speed run is the absolute means of beating the game in record time, even if it takes skill to find and use the glitch.

For example, I was able to do the 3 day challenge in Majora's Mask without using any glitches, and it felt great. Personally, had I used glitches to help me complete the challenge, it would not feel like much of a triumph.

 

[Vrach]

I don't recognize his achievement. Exploiting glitches to beat a game should invalidate the entire effort.

Except, you know that's how speedrunners do these things. IT takes a lot of time playing a game to be able to not only find the glitches, but to also execute them perfectly so as to not lose any time. In speed-runs like this, ever millisecond counts.

Yeah and squeezing out miliseconds is cool, but if anything ever was worth declaring an exception to the rule, skipping from the first boss to the end of the game (thus skipping what, 80% of it?) definitely counts in my book. I get taking shortcuts and such, but this is on the level of playing a game that had a cheat code for ending a level and competing on how fast you could type it in on each level... that's not even a hyperbole, it's a fucking understatement, this guy doesn't skip one level, he skips most of the game.

 

[Vivi22]

He is obviously playing the game outside of the intended spirit of it. But maybe you are all right. While we are at it, lets give back the medals to everyone who ever juiced at the Olympics.

Exploiting bugs/glitches is cheating. If he wants to set a legitimate record, have him go through the game properly.

We're not talking about a multiplayer game here. Who exactly does exploiting glitches and bugs cheat?

And how can you claim what the intended spirit of the game is? And who are you to come down from on high saying the way he completed it is invalid? The goal for speedrunners is to complete a game as fast as possible using any means within the game available to them. Glitches and bugs in the game are included in that because they are a part of the game. If you want to live by some imaginary and laughable "honour code" when playing single player games then have at it. But don't belittle the achievements of others because they don't follow your imaginary set of rules.

 

[Veylon]

I think people are missing the point here. He's competing in an event where the goal is to get from point A to point B as fast as possible. Someone mentioned above about using a teleporter to cheat. In what he's competing in, that would be perfectly valid, as the measure of winning is, in part, ingenuity at using whatever is at hand to achieve victory fastest. A glitch exists, so he uses that. No one competing against him is going to cry foul as he is, in fact, following the rules and spirit of the contest.

He simply isn't in the "no glitches" contest. If he claimed he was and used glitches anyway, then he should be called out. This is like a soccer player going to a football game and accusing the players of cheating by picking up the ball. Balls are meant to be kicked, which they rarely do. And the ball is the wrong color and shape. The goals don't have nets and people have helmets on. Worst game of soccer ever. Not legitimate at all.

 

[Poetic Nova]

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He is obviously playing the game outside of the intended spirit of it. But maybe you are all right. While we are at it, lets give back the medals to everyone who ever juiced at the Olympics.

Exploiting bugs/glitches is cheating. If he wants to set a legitimate record, have him go through the game properly.

I think you forgot that there are 2 kinds of speedruns: inbound (what you seem to prefer for as far as I see) and the above posted one. I fail to see how this should be not legit since finding these glitches and exploits takes time aswell, not to mention the amount of time it costs to gett it perfect (we are talking frame by frame perfect here).

I mighth ave missed something, if I do, I appologize.

 

[babinro]

I don't recognize his achievement. Exploiting glitches to beat a game should invalidate the entire effort.

It's still an accomplishment given the skill required to do what was done.

That said, I tend to agree with your statement.
IMO, exploiting glitches to bypass content goes against the spirit of a speedrun. I recognize this achievement...but it would be FAR more impressive to me to see the true speedrun times of the entire game.

 

[Iwantstuff]

I'm curious to see what people consider "beating a game" is. Because apparently in this context it's not beating Ganon and getting to the end credits.

 

[McMullen]

I've tried glitches like this and they are difficult, but saying OoT was beaten in 19 minutes requires a huge asterisk.

This is like finding a logically sound way to convince your DM to give 1,000,000 XP to your character while still below level 3. Sure, it might have been a challenge, but you can't really call it a campaign.

You can also order a Ph.D by mail and get it a few weeks after you decided you wanted one, which has a cost and a certain investment of time to it, and probably requires some savvy in order to avoid getting scammed (assuming your goal is simply to have a piece of paper with your name on it anyway), but no one who knows you did this will agree that you completed grad school in a few weeks.

 

[Right E O]

Wow, thats really impressive! I remember Cosmo himself saying that going sub 19 minutes might never happen and seeing him do it now is really cool. Cosmo is one of the reasons I love speedrunning, he just explains it and executes it so well.

Seems like some folks aren't as big a fans though. I get the whole "beat the game properly" mentality but I've always thought about speedruns this way: If something isn't necessary to beating the game, i.e its completion doesn't effect your ability to finish the game, and you are looking to beat the game as quickly as possible, why on Earth would you do it?

I mean, who defines a 100% run anyway? And who defines glitches? Is anything done outside of the original scope of the game designer's vision instantly a glitch? I get that walking through walls is not what we think of when we say finishing a game, but hell it's possible and much faster than not doing so, so why the heck wouldn't you? Cosmo certainly didn't change any part of the games coding, or tamper with his controller, so yes he is the fastest one ever. And that is damn impressive.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

I'm curious as to where naysayers stand on finishing games with less than %100 completion. In Crash Bandicoot 3 you can beat Neo Cortex with only 30-40% completion, and that is playing it as the developers intended. Does that count as beating the game? Does the fact that you don't necessarily need certain items mean that if you don't collect them anyway then it doesn't truly count as beating the game? Because that's exactly how the Any% category started with OoT; the first major exploit was people realising that they didn't need the Lens of Truth and can just memorise places where they need it.

Also FYI, previous techniques skipped Ganondorf entirely [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYOgJ1UrYyM]. As far as completion is concerned, there have been more debatable methods than this record features.

 

[Right E O]

I recognize this achievement...but it would be FAR more impressive to me to see the true speedrun times of the entire game.

So, what would be a true speedrun? Can I run backwards? Do I have to collect all items, including the useless ones? Should I make sure to collect every rupee in the whole game? What about every fish, are they important to a "true" speedrun? Should I ask the game's designer what a true speedrun is? What if he says the only requirement is to beat the final boss? If the designer knows about a glitch but keeps it in can I use it? Are you even the proper authority to be asking about this random internet user?

Don't mean to be mean, but the whole "true" speedrun business feels a little silly. I mean, the guy beat the game. You can keep asking him to do more and more things on top of that (which as many people have pointed out, constitutes many new speedrun categories) but saying this run isn't true to some ridiculous spirit of gaming seems off to me.

 

[DrOswald]

I don't recognize his achievement. Exploiting glitches to beat a game should invalidate the entire effort.

I'm gonna disagree with the massive panel of people bashing this post and say that you're absolutely right, and they're not.

It's not a legit run if the guy has to cheat to finish it. Period. Don't really care how people want to defend it, they don't call them "exploits" because they're so hardcore MLG legit, dawgs. They call them "exploits" because they abuse broken mechanics in the game to win, i.e., they cheat and violate the spirit of the game.

But here we have an interesting question: What is cheating? What violates the spirit of the game?

For example, there are plenty of places in the OOT run where you can reach a ledge by precision jumping without even bugging the game. The developers messed up and placed the ledge too close. These types of skips are unintentional but fully within the intended rules of the game. Does this violate the spirit of the game?

Other examples:

OOT: You move faster by going backwards. Clearly not intended, but fully within the rules.

Super Mario World: Because of the way the cape works most levels can be flown over without ever dealing with the level's obstacles. Not intended, within the rules.

Yoshi's island: Many ledges that you are not supposed to get to are reachable by using the games legitimate jumping mechanics. No glitches at all.

Wind Waker: You sail faster if you rapidly take out and put away the sail. You can skip half a dungeon with a precise jump off a cliff to a lower ledge. In Wind Waker HD you can roll the dice and, if you get lucky, cut two minutes off your time by intentionally sailing into a whirlwind. You can skip entire rooms be using the invincibility frames granted by taking damage. None of these are glitches. Other, minor glitches allow you to skip the door opening animation for certain rooms. None of this is intended, but which ones are being good and which ones are cheating?

Better to have clearly defined categories spelling out what is allowed. This means that there is room for both a highly glitched run and a "glitchless" run, separate categories that are equally valid.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

"Kid beats Ocarina of Time in Less than 20 mins" ***

Asterisk: Special glitched version, not the one you have
Asterisk: only actually beats one Dungeon - and even then, hides behind a wall to beat Ghoma.
Asterisk: does not actually fight the boss, cheats by standing UNDER him and raping him with a stick up the Bum

Not Impressed.
Call me when you do it by beating every Temple properly. And to those who go on about the skill needed to get everything timed perfect and hit the Glitch? I say 1 pump chump!
Does not have the ability to keep it up for the whole game. By Ferore, Din and Nayru you didn't even beat all the kid Dungeons!

As for separate categories of Speedrunning based on using glitches to not have to beat the challenges presented by the game? "I call them Girly men!" - Arnold Schwarzenegger.


/takes away his cartridge and replaces it with a fixed one. Now call me in longer than 20 mins.

 

[Someone Depressing]

I enjoy speedrun videos, particularly of shooters and RPGs, and I suppose this is kind of cool.

 

[RJ 17]

Seriously...how is this supposed to be impressive? You beat a game really fast by exploiting a glitch...that's just another way of cheating. This is no more impressive than those videos of people beating Mario 64 with no stars in under 5 minutes. This doesn't show talent as a gamer, it shows talent as a glitcher. I fail to see how beating a game while glitching is worthy of holding a "record"...it's like someone that everyone knows was on steroids setting a weight-lifting record. This is literally two cheaters going back and forth saying "I can cheat better than you!" "Nuh-uhhhhh!"

Why not just hack the cartridge so that as soon as Navi wakes you up you're fighting Ganon fully equipped and ready to go? That would be just as meaningful as this.

 

[RJ 17]

But here we have an interesting question: What is cheating? What violates the spirit of the game?

I'm pretty sure that passing through walls that are clearly supposed to be sealed and solid is cheating and "violating the spirit of the game". It's one thing to make a jump that you're not supposed to, its entirely another thing to pass through what's supposed to be solid walls and skip the entire game. I highly doubt it's "within the spirit of the game" to skip 99% of the game itself.

Case in point: in Mario 64 you're supposed to collect x number of stars to unlock new portions of the castle. That's a fundamental mechanic and rule of the game. How is it anything but cheating - or going outside the spirit of the game, if you will - to beat the game without collecting a single star?

Spoiler: As you can see it being done here:

This "speed run" of OOT is absolutely no different than the flagrant glitching in that Mario speed run. They CLEARLY step outside of the intended rules and boundaries of the game to cheat their way to the end while disregarding said intended rules and "the spirit of the game".

As I said in my previous post, this isn't a competition between speed runners to see who can beat a game the fastest, it's a competition between cheaters to see who can cheat the most efficiently.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

Seriously...how is this supposed to be impressive? You beat a game really fast by exploiting a glitch...that's just another way of cheating. This is no more impressive than those videos of people beating Mario 64 with no stars in under 5 minutes. This doesn't show talent as a gamer, it shows talent as a glitcher. I fail to see how beating a game while glitching is worthy of holding a "record"...it's like someone that everyone knows was on steroids setting a weight-lifting record. This is literally two cheaters going back and forth saying "I can cheat better than you!" "Nuh-uhhhhh!"

Why not just hack the cartridge so that as soon as Navi wakes you up you're fighting Gannon fully equipped and ready to go? That would be just as meaningful as this.

^5. If he did that, he'd have to actually FIGHT Gannodorf and Gannon, rather than hiding under his Taint.

 

[DrOswald]

"Kid beats Ocarina of Time in Less than 20 mins" ***

Asterisk: Special glitched version, not the one you have
Asterisk: only actually beats one Dungeon - and even then, hides behind a wall to beat Ghoma.
Asterisk: does not actually fight the boss

Not Impressed. Call me when you do it by beating every Temple properly. And to those who go on about the skill needed to get everything timed perfect and hit the Glitch? I say 1 pump chump!
Does not have the ability to keep it up for the whole game. By Ferore, Din and Nayru you didn't even beat all the kid Dungeons!

As for separate categories of Speedrunning based on using glitches to not have to beat the challenges presented by the game? "I call them Girly men!" - Arnold Schwarzenegger.

This is Tabloid grade sensationalist Headlining. Also known as Hyperbole and exaggeration.

/takes away his cartridge and replaces it with a fixed one. Now call me in longer than 20 mins.

What you are looking for is an OOT MST category, a category in which Cosmo previously held the world record and which he intends to take back after he gets a time in any% he is satisfied with. His personal best (and former world record) in MST was 2:31:45 made 2 years ago.

Or he might move onto Wind Waker, a record he held much more recently. His personal best in that one is 4:27:53, 1 minute and 59 second short of the current record held by Demon9.

Cosmo certainly does have the ability and the skill to play the entire game. The any% category is the equivalent of a sprint. The idea that it doesn't count because it doesn't conform to your personal definition of beating the game (as opposed to the actual games actual definition of beating the game) is as silly as saying the 100m dash doesn't count as running because they don't make a full lap around the track.

 

[DrOswald]

But here we have an interesting question: What is cheating? What violates the spirit of the game?

I'm pretty sure that passing through walls that are clearly supposed to be sealed and solid is cheating and "violating the spirit of the game". It's one thing to make a jump that you're not supposed to, its entirely another thing to pass through what's supposed to be solid walls and skip the entire game. I highly doubt it's "within the spirit of the game" to skip 99% of the game itself.

Case in point: in Mario 64 you're supposed to collect x number of stars to unlock new portions of the castle. That's a fundamental mechanic and rule of the game. How is it anything but cheating - or going outside the spirit of the game, if you will - to beat the game without collecting a single star?

Spoiler: As you can see it being done here:

This "speed run" of OOT is absolutely no different than the flagrant glitching in that Mario speed run. They CLEARLY step outside of the intended rules and boundaries of the game to cheat their way to the end while disregarding said intended rules and "the spirit of the game".

As I said in my previous post, this isn't a competition between speed runners to see who can beat a game the fastest, it's a competition between cheaters to see who can cheat the most efficiently.

Ok then, clearly define cheating to me. Tell me what is and is not allowed in a speed run.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

Seems like some folks aren't as big a fans though. I get the whole "beat the game properly" mentality but I've always thought about speedruns this way: If something isn't necessary to beating the game, i.e its completion doesn't effect your ability to finish the game, and you are looking to beat the game as quickly as possible, why on Earth would you do it?

I mean, who defines a 100% run anyway? And who defines glitches? Is anything done outside of the original scope of the game designer's vision instantly a glitch? I get that walking through walls is not what we think of when we say finishing a game, but hell it's possible and much faster than not doing so, so why the heck wouldn't you? Cosmo certainly didn't change any part of the games coding, or tamper with his controller, so yes he is the fastest one ever. And that is damn impressive.

Because the Legend of Zelda REQUIRES you to defeat all the dungeons to GET to the end. Many games have a ton of optional material that you may bypass to reach the end of the story. Not so LoZ. He didn't have to change anything in the game because he KNOWINGLY AND DELIBERATELY purchased and used a glitched copy of the game. Effectively paying SOMEBODY ELSE to hack it for him. In my mind even weaker than doing it yourself.

As for the definition of a "100%" run, read your own English. ((Im sorry, that sounds WAY meaner than it is intended))

A 100% run, by definition would be 100% completion. But the Issue at hand is NOT whether 100% completion is necessary to BEAT a game's main quest line, but rather if you can claim to have beaten it AT ALL by using Glitches to circumvent 99% of the intended challenges in the game. You can NOT. Because you did NOT.

Do, or Do NOT. There is no Glitch.