Splatterhouse in Australia?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Pretty decent article, I'd agree with most of what you said. Like the grappling hook idea but this can be pushed to utter limits. Killing gets very boring if you only have a couple of ways to kill. Left 4 dead 2 does a nice variety, which keeps me coming back: melee, pistol, machine gun, shotgun and sniper are plenty for an FPS because they all give a different visceral sense when killing the legions of undead... sorry infected.
I find the best gore beat-em-ups/ action adventure would use items like the grappling hook and maybe the force like powers in Force Unleashed? Except without the lightening being over powered. If a design team is good they could create a whole range of enemies that all require different tactics either by combining the moves or with some just a good ol button mash. I think that would give extremely high depth to the battle system... except writing an tutorial that doesn't impede the flow of the game would be a huge challenge.
I find the best gore beat-em-ups/ action adventure would use items like the grappling hook and maybe the force like powers in Force Unleashed? Except without the lightening being over powered. If a design team is good they could create a whole range of enemies that all require different tactics either by combining the moves or with some just a good ol button mash. I think that would give extremely high depth to the battle system... except writing an tutorial that doesn't impede the flow of the game would be a huge challenge.
I should give more examples of the killing thing... I'm not a good designer though 
1) Heavy attack to destroy shield- button mash the rest.
2) Enemy has a force field, use lightening to disrupt it.... button mash.
3) an enemy crawls on all fours, its belly is the weakness- launch the enemy and slice it from beneath.
4)Enemy is weak from behind, dodge it's slow attack and tear out its spine.
5) Enemy heavily armoured bar its head, concentrate on using high attacks.
That's 5, admittedly pretty bad ones but just these five would offer a lot more challenge and variety than most current games, especially if you were attacked by mixed groups.
Thoughts any one?
1) Heavy attack to destroy shield- button mash the rest.
2) Enemy has a force field, use lightening to disrupt it.... button mash.
3) an enemy crawls on all fours, its belly is the weakness- launch the enemy and slice it from beneath.
4)Enemy is weak from behind, dodge it's slow attack and tear out its spine.
5) Enemy heavily armoured bar its head, concentrate on using high attacks.
That's 5, admittedly pretty bad ones but just these five would offer a lot more challenge and variety than most current games, especially if you were attacked by mixed groups.
Thoughts any one?
Three words: Shadows of Rome. This was an epic carnagefest back on the PS2, with bludgeoning weapons able to break limbs (with accompanying gimping of said limb), slashing weapons could sever limbs, heads, even torsos clean in half. You could pick up dismembered body parts to use as new bludgeoning weapons, or even pick up a decapitated head and chuck it into the crowd for more (whatever the hell the game had you going for; popularity? charisma? something like that).
I don't think it had a grappling hook, but the length some of the weapons reached could easily work in that favor.
And ye, you could break all of a person's limbs and watch them flail around on the ground. Can't remember what happened if you severed more than one limb, but I'm pretty sure it was close to death. And with a "decisive" enough swing from a bladed weapon, you got multi-part dismemberings/decapitations, however that worked.
I don't think it had a grappling hook, but the length some of the weapons reached could easily work in that favor.
And ye, you could break all of a person's limbs and watch them flail around on the ground. Can't remember what happened if you severed more than one limb, but I'm pretty sure it was close to death. And with a "decisive" enough swing from a bladed weapon, you got multi-part dismemberings/decapitations, however that worked.
Yahtzee, you do realize you described MadWorld to a tee here? And, to quote, you felt that MadWorld was a "six to eight hour game with enough ideas to fill a three hour game" but that you did have fun with it, and your biggest complaint simply being it was on the Wii. So with more content and better controls, you'd have given it a much better review? I'm surprised you didn't actually say this in the article, because the point is pretty obvious. Maybe, though, you didn't make the point because you knew Sega wouldn't listen... they're still making Sonic games and like you said the only reason it had notoriety in the first place was because it was on a Nintendo console.
It sounds a whole lot like you just designed Dead Rising 2 there. Body part removal. Lots of gore that gets on the player character and on the floor. You can occasionally grab zombie's body parts upon killing them. Lots of satisfying ways to off zombies. Rewards for killing them.
Animations, animations, animations.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Too much damned time and energy are spent on textures. Not nearly enough is spent, in most games, on the animations. It's the way that something moves that makes it feel real--which, on an unrelated note, is why Pixar beats the AllFuck out of Dreamworks in the animation business. The characters don't look real, but they feel real.
Animations and game physics convey that sense of mass and substance that is necessary for the mind to register something as "getting hit" or "being chopped off." Speaking of which, the animations need to include the removal of the limb. The actual process of the limb coming detached. Otherwise, you've got a real-looking person... and then a real-looking person standing next to a real-looking severed limb. It's the connective bits (literally and figuratively) that sell the realism.
This is what made the first Hostel far more painful to watch than the second. Neither were "great" movies, but the first must at least be called "effective." The camera stays on the subject during the whole process of each cut/stab/burn/peel. The camera refuses to flinch, so you have to. Things weren't fast and obscured by sprays of blood. They were slower, more highly visible. It's these kinds of visuals that sell the gore--not just what comes off or goes in, but how it happens.
At that point, all you need are good sound effects. Exaggerated is one thing, sure, like you said. The descriptors you gave were also good. But from a technical standpoint, the one thing that ruins most sound effects is too much high-end. Larger objects have lower resonant frequencies, so using "bass-ier" sound effects helps to convey that sense of weight. Same goes for guns. High, sharp "pop pop" sounds don't do it. Some low-frequency "gwoohm!" type stuff is what you need.
This also allows a contrast in sounds. Your reloading, talking, enemy claws and fangs clicking, all that kind of stuff can occupy the higher end. With an increase in the range of frequencies being represented, your soundscape is larger and deeper. Your caverns will be more cavernous. You'll look heavier, feel heavier, and sound heavier. And this is sounding more and more like I'm lapsing into another love letter to your mom.
Eh, basically, smoother and heavier animations, lower and heavier sounds.
I'd think all the dynamic blood splatter would be hard to make, particle systems are a ***** towards render-time in 3D graphics.
Dunno how it works with game-engines, haven't worked with that yet, but i assume they can't magically ignore render-time, hence the use of normals maps on ridiculously low-poly game-models, since it has to render in real-time.
Dunno how it works with game-engines, haven't worked with that yet, but i assume they can't magically ignore render-time, hence the use of normals maps on ridiculously low-poly game-models, since it has to render in real-time.
"If you have changes or additions to suggest for this idealistic fun-violence code of conduct, why not mention them in the comments?"
You read the comments?
You read the comments?
I remember in the original MediEvil where if you would run out of amunition for range wepons you could throw your arm like a boomerang. Also that game had pretty fun set pieces, AND EVERY SINGLE ONE was inspiered by gothic horror.
So, pretty much dismemberment physics similar to Ninja Gaiden 2?
Yeah, that was awesome. I'd love to see more games in the style of the Medievil games. There's plenty of cartoonish or parody horror games, but nothing quite like the Medievil series. Or maybe it's just the nostalgia.Egillswordguy said:
You've opened the flood gates now, Yahtzee.k-ossuburb said:
Doom/Quake/etc. old school games did this VERY well with the same one repeating weapon that really needs to come back.
If you played them, then you probably are already thinking of the most beautiful weapon every designed.
The BFG9000 (doom). Though personally I liked the BFG10k more (quake).
The BFG9000: Fires a ball of green plasma dealing massive damage to the enemy. Takes roughly half a second to charge up when you fire it and you even hear it charging up.
Same goes for the BFG10k, but that one had rays shooting off of it as well destroying anything NEAR it. So not only did you get the pleasure of watching the ball of green plasma slowly destroy everything in it's way (even continuing through enemies until it hit a wall) the rays it fired off also meant that something as petty as 'being within 100 meters' of the guy who fired it.
God help you if you were standing where it exploded.
Another thing: Players should be able to toy with both corpses and living enemies alike. When there is one last enemy left in a game I always feel the need to make his death as needlessly drawn out as possible. You should be able to drag and fling your enemy around the room, laughing as he screams in agony until finishing him with one brutal move. Mmmmmmm, violence.
Yahtzee notes that "Enemies should also appear moist and weighty rather than dry and bony. Bloated with muscle and fat, glistening with greasy sweat" I can get behind this.
Looking back over all the different enemies I've slaughtered in violent video games, I was instantly reminded of the heavy-set shirtless enemies from House of the Dead 2. Remember when they slowly ambled towards you with their guts jiggling like pudding? You immediately wanted to go to work shooting up their bellies rather going for the more effective head shot, simply because it was so much fun to hollow out their insides.
His point about using "washed out, neutral colours" also comes into play here - The zombies all came in dark black/browns/greens and grays to contrast the oozing green blood that spurted forth. Of course this was just a rails shooter, but in my opinion they have a tendency to produce some of the most interesting enemies in games.
Finally there is one point I really want to stress - Different weaponry should mean a variety of different corpses and death animations. Remember when you finally got your hands on the rocket launcher or BFG in the original Doom? Enemies weren't just collapsing in bullet-ridden piles on the ground anymore, they were being transformed into a pile of slimy red matter. Watching enemies responding differently to different weapons is a ton of fun.
Looking back over all the different enemies I've slaughtered in violent video games, I was instantly reminded of the heavy-set shirtless enemies from House of the Dead 2. Remember when they slowly ambled towards you with their guts jiggling like pudding? You immediately wanted to go to work shooting up their bellies rather going for the more effective head shot, simply because it was so much fun to hollow out their insides.
His point about using "washed out, neutral colours" also comes into play here - The zombies all came in dark black/browns/greens and grays to contrast the oozing green blood that spurted forth. Of course this was just a rails shooter, but in my opinion they have a tendency to produce some of the most interesting enemies in games.
Finally there is one point I really want to stress - Different weaponry should mean a variety of different corpses and death animations. Remember when you finally got your hands on the rocket launcher or BFG in the original Doom? Enemies weren't just collapsing in bullet-ridden piles on the ground anymore, they were being transformed into a pile of slimy red matter. Watching enemies responding differently to different weapons is a ton of fun.
One of the things I found lacking in Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is that, as a space warrior the equal to a platoon of space nazis with lasers, there's a lack of numerous enemies. It's like there was a shortage of graduates from Redshirt Academy or something.
A game that is supposed to be about destruction and touts the reaction of its game engines lets me down.
I bring it up mostly because I thought of TFU when reading the suggestion of a large number of enemies. The thought was specifically that a solid AI reaction would help sell the visceral nature of the game in question, especially in conjunction with a large number of modular enemiesnwith potential persistent wounds.
A game that is supposed to be about destruction and touts the reaction of its game engines lets me down.
I bring it up mostly because I thought of TFU when reading the suggestion of a large number of enemies. The thought was specifically that a solid AI reaction would help sell the visceral nature of the game in question, especially in conjunction with a large number of modular enemiesnwith potential persistent wounds.
