Split - Is M. Night Shyamalan Back?

gorfias

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Can't agree. My daughter's seen it twice she enjoyed it so much. My son, who is very picky liked it. Rotten Tomatoes liked it as did their audience. and I liked it.

Betty Buckley had some great scene chewing scenes. She did not just sit around giving exposition.

And I would advise anyone thinking of seeing this (sorta spoiler)
see Unbreakable before seeing this

Two of the girls got short shrift. I wish he'd done more with them, but Anya Taylor-Joy? Maybe I can't be objective with her. She is just lovely and her back story and how it fits into the larger story is moving. Alway's good to read Marter's reviews but this is one I recommend people give a chance. I think MNS is in good form here.
 

lutstoomas

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I just saw this film and it was quite good. A lot of tension, very good acting and solid story with a small surprise (it doesn't really have a twist). It is a thriller and not a horror movie.

I advise to give it chance! Definitely worth a watch.
 

Phoenix1213

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Like the above two I did like the movie a bit... It wasn't perfect, but it was good. It probably helped that I'm somewhat interested in DID/ multiple personality things, and for the most part it was a pretty accurate depiction in terms of how it was described, and how the mechanics of it worked with Kevin, and it I didn't really feel like it vilified or stigmatized everyone that has it... of course the supernatural elements weren't accurate, but that's obvious.

Also for M Night Shyamalan's character I'm pretty sure he was like the superintendent for the building or something, and not a "hacker." When they see the trash spilt on the ground he asks her how she knew the trash would be there and she says that she knows him well... as in it's his job to take out the trash and he always makes a mess.
 

Phoenix1213

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RaikuFA said:
So what's the twist?
It only really works if you don't know what it is, and have
seen an earlier movie by M night Shyamalan.... also I guess that the beast is real, has supernatural powers and he spares the last girl because she was an abuse victim.
 

Terminal Blue

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Phoenix1213 said:
It probably helped that I'm somewhat interested in DID/ multiple personality things, and for the most part it was a pretty accurate depiction in terms of how it was described, and how the mechanics of it worked with Kevin, and it I didn't really feel like it vilified or stigmatized everyone that has it... of course the supernatural elements weren't accurate, but that's obvious.
I'd be interested in hearing what you think is accurate, as that's the main reason behind me not seeing this one (my partner has DID, and the reaction from the community has, as I understand it, been overwhelmingly negative). The thing is, I'd kind of like to be wrong..
 

Saelune

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So ended up seeing it (wasnt expecting to) and it was teeeeeerrible. Wow...if I wasnt with people, I would have walked out.

Dont give your "lead" like, 50 chances to escape and give no good reason why she didnt. I mean, I get it shes scared and whatever, but wow her only defining characteristic is "victim". Its not people with mental health issues who should be offended, but women.

An unsatisfying film from start to finish.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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I saw it last night, and I didn't think it was that bad. Certainly not great or even necessarily good, but still a fun bit of enjoyable, absolute nonsense. Was it scary or tense? Hell no. But it straddled the line between serious and (sometimes unintentionally) comedic well enough that the film didn't break down altogether. Macavoy is a riot, and for a film made with only $10 million, it certainly did well within those constraints. No one should go into this movie expecting some great, intelligent cerebral brainscrambler that accurately depicts mental illness. It's more of an exploitation movie with a ludicrous take on something based in real science. Taken as a disposable, rip-roaring bucket of dumb fun with a(nother), or should I say several great performance(s) from Macavoy thrown in, it's perfectly fine.

But Anya Taylor-Joy? Helloooooo nurse!! Hot damn! Giggity! Wa-wa-wee-wa! Her being a genuinely good actress doesn't hurt either.
 

Phoenix1213

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Saelune said:
So ended up seeing it (wasnt expecting to) and it was teeeeeerrible. Wow...if I wasnt with people, I would have walked out.

Dont give your "lead" like, 50 chances to escape and give no good reason why she didnt. I mean, I get it shes scared and whatever, but wow her only defining characteristic is "victim". Its not people with mental health issues who should be offended, but women.

An unsatisfying film from start to finish.
I didn't really get the impression that the movie was trying to paint her as a victim, more that she knew better than to make stupid mistakes and end up angering him and missing the one shot she'd have to escape... presumably that's what the hunting flashbacks were there to tell us about her character before the abuse "twist" came into play... she even outright tells the other girls that they are being idiots trying to come up with some rash "rush the guy!1!1!1!" Plan. Maybe it just wasn't logical or believable for you, which is fine I suppose... it was a little hard to go along with at times but to fair I don't think she ever huddled up in a ball crying and when the others did try to escape she did make efforts to help them escape.
evilthecat said:
Phoenix1213 said:
It probably helped that I'm somewhat interested in DID/ multiple personality things, and for the most part it was a pretty accurate depiction in terms of how it was described, and how the mechanics of it worked with Kevin, and it I didn't really feel like it vilified or stigmatized everyone that has it... of course the supernatural elements weren't accurate, but that's obvious.
I'd be interested in hearing what you think is accurate, as that's the main reason behind me not seeing this one (my partner has DID, and the reaction from the community has, as I understand it, been overwhelmingly negative). The thing is, I'd kind of like to be wrong..
It's not perfect, but you can tell they did some research... they could have easily done some hack job and made him this kooky crazy guy who hears voices, and sometime those voices take over, and theyre all these extreme crazy weirdos that are all evil. It was a little more nuanced sympathetic than that, especiallythe scenes with Kevin's therapist who specializes with DID patients and at several points defends her research and the people who have DID. Its also worth noting that most of Kevin's personalities are portrayed as "good" it's just that 3 of the more "flawed" personalities have taken over for the majority of the film and the "good" ones only show up to send emails to the therapist or in video logs. I'm no expert but I have heard of the things like the chairs/light referenced before in regard to who currently gets control, suppressing personalities who do harmful things, and there are blackouts and such referenced. But..... some of the other stuff is obvious fiction like regaining sight, some personalities being diabetic, becoming bulletproof, etc.

Also in general if someone or something is a villain then the community behind it most likely will express outrage. All the James Bond movies, and Call of Dutys, etc. may be fine with us, but I'm sure there's some Russian groups that get annoyed at always being the villain. Same thing with The Revenant, I'm sure PETA was very upset and they wanted the bear to win an Oscar instead. lol
 

Saelune

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Phoenix1213 said:
Saelune said:
So ended up seeing it (wasnt expecting to) and it was teeeeeerrible. Wow...if I wasnt with people, I would have walked out.

Dont give your "lead" like, 50 chances to escape and give no good reason why she didnt. I mean, I get it shes scared and whatever, but wow her only defining characteristic is "victim". Its not people with mental health issues who should be offended, but women.

An unsatisfying film from start to finish.
I didn't really get the impression that the movie was trying to paint her as a victim, more that she knew better than to make stupid mistakes and end up angering him and missing the one shot she'd have to escape... presumably that's what the hunting flashbacks were there to tell us about her character before the abuse "twist" came into play... she even outright tells the other girls that they are being idiots trying to come up with some rash "rush the guy!1!1!1!" Plan. Maybe it just wasn't logical or believable for you, which is fine I suppose... it was a little hard to go along with at times but to fair I don't think she ever huddled up in a ball crying and when the others did try to escape she did make efforts to help them escape.
evilthecat said:
Phoenix1213 said:
It probably helped that I'm somewhat interested in DID/ multiple personality things, and for the most part it was a pretty accurate depiction in terms of how it was described, and how the mechanics of it worked with Kevin, and it I didn't really feel like it vilified or stigmatized everyone that has it... of course the supernatural elements weren't accurate, but that's obvious.
I'd be interested in hearing what you think is accurate, as that's the main reason behind me not seeing this one (my partner has DID, and the reaction from the community has, as I understand it, been overwhelmingly negative). The thing is, I'd kind of like to be wrong..
It's not perfect, but you can tell they did some research... they could have easily done some hack job and made him this kooky crazy guy who hears voices, and sometime those voices take over, and theyre all these extreme crazy weirdos that are all evil. It was a little more nuanced sympathetic than that, especiallythe scenes with Kevin's therapist who specializes with DID patients and at several points defends her research and the people who have DID. Its also worth noting that most of Kevin's personalities are portrayed as "good" it's just that 3 of the more "flawed" personalities have taken over for the majority of the film and the "good" ones only show up to send emails to the therapist or in video logs. I'm no expert but I have heard of the things like the chairs/light referenced before in regard to who currently gets control, suppressing personalities who do harmful things, and there are blackouts and such referenced. But..... some of the other stuff is obvious fiction like regaining sight, some personalities being diabetic, becoming bulletproof, etc.

Also in general if someone or something is a villain then the community behind it most likely will express outrage. All the James Bond movies, and Call of Dutys, etc. may be fine with us, but I'm sure there's some Russian groups that get annoyed at always being the villain. Same thing with The Revenant, I'm sure PETA was very upset and they wanted the bear to win an Oscar instead. lol
3v1, I dont care that hes a man and they are women. 3 women attacking obviously sensitive areas (nuts/face). Plus they could have used that girl's shoes that she used to break the ceiling. Hell, the one girl could have escaped capture altogether. The trailer made it seem fast and sudden, but she just STARES AT HIM FOREVER! as he sits there before he does it. Then, cause I guess he didnt notice her, she STILL SITS AND STARES!

My god.

Then when the one girl hits him with a chair during that meal and runs, and the guy tells the main girl still there to go back to her room...AND SHE DOES!

Also when he was in kid mode, they again could have overpowered him and escaped.

Oh, and the end, does she do anything to not go back to her uncle? No, she just stares. End film.

They wrote her as victim.
 

Phoenix1213

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Saelune said:
.23886292"]
3v1, I dont care that hes a man and they are women. 3 women attacking obviously sensitive areas (nuts/face). Plus they could have used that girl's shoes that she used to break the ceiling. Hell, the one girl could have escaped capture altogether. The trailer made it seem fast and sudden, but she just STARES AT HIM FOREVER! as he sits there before he does it. Then, cause I guess he didnt notice her, she STILL SITS AND STARES!

My god.

Then when the one girl hits him with a chair during that meal and runs, and the guy tells the main girl still there to go back to her room...AND SHE DOES!

Also when he was in kid mode, they again could have overpowered him and escaped.

Oh, and the end, does she do anything to not go back to her uncle? No, she just stares. End film.

They wrote her as victim.
yeah The ending was just awkward. I kept waiting for the "twist" to be that she had multiple personalities as well all along, or that the kidnapping made her develop multiple personalities and now she'd go and murder her uncle, but nope... just some blank stare. They built up this sort of image of her being "made for this" and all of her experiences making her the perfect person to survive this, but instead they just have him spare her because she's a cutter and she gives this blank dead inside look. Definitely a missed opportunity.
 

Terminal Blue

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Phoenix1213 said:
Thanks, that's an interesting perspective.

Weirdly, the regaining sight thing is actually true. The woman in question suffered brain damage which rendered her blind, but one of her parts was still able to see. It lead to the idea, generally accepted now, that DID has a neurological as well as a psychological component (essentially, repeated trauma in childhood can change how your brain develops). Of course, while her condition was not psychosomatic it was all down to her brain so the idea of people altering other parts of their body is still bullshit.

Saelune said:
I'm not going to go to the wall defending a film I haven't seen, but abuse victims are victims. A lot of behaviours which resonate to normal people as stupid or self-defeating responses to scary or dangerous situations, like staring into the middle distance or becoming very compliant, are actually defence mechanisms and a part of how people are mentally able to survive abuse. Of course, being able to survive abuse is not always a terribly useful or helpful skill, particularly when these same symptoms make you less able to deal with physical threats. I'm not going to guess as to the cleverness of a Shyamalan film, but it's possible all of this was entirely deliberate and if so it would actually be pretty clever.

Phoenix1213 said:
Being the perfect person to survive trauma doesn't mean you're going to be super effective. Actually, the perfect person to survive trauma is a person who can dissociate, whether in the form of DID or PTSD. The easiest way to deal with bad things happening is to not be there (to experience them as things which happened to someone else) which manifests outwardly as freezing up (or blank staring).

Of course, fictional characters aren't real people so I can't speak to the issues of representation, but since I can only come at this on the level of "what if this was a real person" I may as well point out that this really doesn't sound that weird.
 

Blitsie

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Samtemdo8 said:
008Zulu said:
He isn't the only director that needs to throw away his pen and focus solely on directing. cough Snyder. cough
Ugh my Snyder fanboy is being tested.

Snyder's movie are miles ahead of Shyamalan :p

Don't act like Batman v Superman was somehow worse than The Happeneing.

I mean can you go back to hating on Michael Bay, please?
Oh man, absolutely nothing is worse than The Happening. Heck the only movie I can think of that is worse is The Last Airbender but that's partly because I died inside every time they said "Aungh" instead of the correct name pronunciation, god damn I hate that film.

Anyway, I didn't bother to go watch Split but I heard what the classic Shyamalan "twist" (or trick or whatever) is and only gave a loud belly laugh at the utter idiocy of it all. Its clear no one involved in the story making of this film read past the Wikipedia entry for "dissociative identity disorder" really. Which is kinda sad because its a very interesting topic and it sounds like they tried to tackle it a bit realistically at least?

Or, well, the "realistic" parts I heard about anyway were entirely off the mark though but its all details that got the Hollywood treatment by the sound of it so no surprise there.

But yeah, hard skip on this one then, looks like a real stinker.
 

RedDeadFred

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Heh, I thought it was great. Mcavoy really made me believe that all of the personalities were different people. It had some good comedic moments and wasn't afraid to go all the way with what it set up. I thought it built tension quite well and had some genuinely creepy moments. It's probably my favourite of his films after Unbreakable.

Apparently people are up in arms over the portrayal of DID, but I really don't understand why. It's a movie. Also, the movie goes pretty far to show that this is not just a case of DID. I feel like people saw the promotional material and decided they needed to get offended over it. If any of them watched the movie, they'd know that this is not DID. Pretty sure this is just PC culture overreacting again. Unless of course
there are people with DID growing bullet proof skin and gaining huge amounts of muscle in seconds that I'm not aware of.
Saelune said:
So ended up seeing it (wasnt expecting to) and it was teeeeeerrible. Wow...if I wasnt with people, I would have walked out.

Dont give your "lead" like, 50 chances to escape and give no good reason why she didnt. I mean, I get it shes scared and whatever, but wow her only defining characteristic is "victim". Its not people with mental health issues who should be offended, but women.

An unsatisfying film from start to finish.
I'd say she was more pragmatic and realistic than victim. She explains right off the bat why a lot of what you suggest wouldn't work. Not only that, she uses her brain to almost escape and take advantage of the situation when she can. Also,
she would have beaten him if it weren't for the supernatural element. Also, we don't know if she goes back to her uncle. If she does, well she obviously thinks that's her best way to survive. I assume she'll be leaving him as soon as she's an adult.
Also, so what if part of her character is a victim? She's literally the victim of an abduction and abuse. That's sort of the catalyst for the whole story.... Why is this upsetting to you that this could be in a movie? It's not like we have an abundance of this kind of protagonist in film. It's uncomfortable to watch at points, but that's kind of the point.
 

Saelune

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RedDeadFred said:
Heh, I thought it was great. Mcavoy really made me believe that all of the personalities were different people. It had some good comedic moments and wasn't afraid to go all the way with what it set up. I thought it built tension quite well and had some genuinely creepy moments. It's probably my favourite of his films after Unbreakable.

Apparently people are up in arms over the portrayal of DID, but I really don't understand why. It's a movie. Also, the movie goes pretty far to show that this is not just a case of DID. I feel like people saw the promotional material and decided they needed to get offended over it. If any of them watched the movie, they'd know that this is not DID. Pretty sure this is just PC culture overreacting again. Unless of course
there are people with DID growing bullet proof skin and gaining huge amounts of muscle in seconds that I'm not aware of.
Saelune said:
So ended up seeing it (wasnt expecting to) and it was teeeeeerrible. Wow...if I wasnt with people, I would have walked out.

Dont give your "lead" like, 50 chances to escape and give no good reason why she didnt. I mean, I get it shes scared and whatever, but wow her only defining characteristic is "victim". Its not people with mental health issues who should be offended, but women.

An unsatisfying film from start to finish.
I'd say she was more pragmatic and realistic than victim. She explains right off the bat why a lot of what you suggest wouldn't work. Not only that, she uses her brain to almost escape and take advantage of the situation when she can. Also,
she would have beaten him if it weren't for the supernatural element. Also, we don't know if she goes back to her uncle. If she does, well she obviously thinks that's her best way to survive. I assume she'll be leaving him as soon as she's an adult.
Also, so what if part of her character is a victim? She's literally the victim of an abduction and abuse. That's sort of the catalyst for the whole story.... Why is this upsetting to you that this could be in a movie? It's not like we have an abundance of this kind of protagonist in film. It's uncomfortable to watch at points, but that's kind of the point.
If she was alone, sure, but there were 3 of them, and the one girl was like "Hey, lets not just sit here and die". Though she should have just slapped the main girl and been like "WE'RE FUCKING GETTING OUT OF HERE, HELP US NOW".

They could have made it more plausible to make them feel helpless. Tie them up, bound them somehow, have the guy have tons of safety precautions. But he just gives them cleaning chemicals, really? They should have sprayed him with those or something. They had way too much freedom, way too many chances, and there were 3 of them.

Hell, she didnt even do anything during the meal part. She literally just went back to her room.
 

Poetic Nova

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I stil remember seeing the trailer on the TV, got intruiged until that name showed up. After that I knew enough and ignored it, like everything else M. Night attempts to make post Avatar.
 

Arnoxthe1

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So before I say anything else, I want to confess that when it comes to DID, I am pretty sensitive. Because I know what horrible things sufferers had to go through, and sometimes still have to go through. And even FURTHER, one of my best friends has DID. So yeah. Very protective of sufferers.

Anyway though. While you could say that most of the DID depicted is accurate, it's still a horror movie about DID. And we DON'T need another one of those. We don't need the public afraid of sufferers anymore than they already are. Sometimes they aren't even believed when they try to tell people about their symptoms. It's SUCH bullshit, I can't even... But yeah. One star. XP