Note: This thread contains discussions of the plot of The Dark Knight Rises, which just came out today. There are lots of twists in this movie, so if you don't want to know them, leave now. This is for people who have already seen the movie.
Now, here are my thoughts. Please add yours at your earliest convenience because that what us nerds do - complain/praise/complain/sarcasm. Lame ending is lame and doesn't really make sense. How the hell can a character become Robin and maintain it as a secret identity when he quits the police force, is known to have worked with Batman, and oh by the way, his real name is fucking Robin? ...unless he becomes Nightwing. Actually that might be kind of cool.
He's not Robin, that was just a nice little easter egg for fans to tell us exactly what we already suspected was going to happen. He becomes Batman. Hence why the bat signal was repaired and Bruce gave him the coordinates to his batcave with his batsuit and miscellaneous other stuff. Basically the very notion that Blake would see all that crap and think to himself "Hmm, I should dump all this in a landfill and go get a bright red acrobat suit" is retarded and is contrary to what the idea of Batman was in this series - a symbol that can be anyone if they have the will to act.
zelda2fanboy said:
But why the hell did Bruce Wayne bang Miranda Tate? Because she was there? And why did Catwoman shack up with Bruce Wayne at the end of the movie knowing he's basically broke when all she really cares about is stealing? I know, I know, she gives the kid his apple back and kisses Batman right before he blows himself up. Just seems half assed, especially when the movie seems to suggest she's a lesbian (unless I'm reading into something incorrectly, but the body language of her female partner felt like there was something going on between them and that she just used men to get what she wanted). At least it passes the Bechdel test. I think. Did the cohort have a name? Where did she go?
Miranda was manipulating him, and Bruce, being a cold broken shell of a man with absolutely no friends left walked right into it. Catwoman had a change of heart as soon as she saw what anarchy was actually like. Hence her lines like "This was somebody's home..." And wanting the identity eraser thing makes it pretty evident that she didn't really even want to steal anymore, she just wanted to clear her name so she could lead a normal life and be done with it. The accomplice had a name but I don't remember it. I assume she was fighting on Bane's side though given how supportive she was of the revolution, thus she probably got her ass thrown in jail.
zelda2fanboy said:
And if Alfred liked Bruce so much and Bruce liked him, why not be buds and shit, rather than never speak again? How did Bruce get back to Gotham from the lazarus pit/prison thing when he has no money and no passport? Why did he trust Miranda Tate at all ever and give her his company (besides that he fucked her for no apparent reason)? And why did it change from day to night after spending two minutes in the tunnel from the stock exchange? Why did Batman wait until the commissioner was out on the ice (with a ton of other heavy people) before he saved him? Why let Bane know he was back in the first place? Why didn't the ice break when they set part of it on fire?
All a part of how Alfred always thought about his fantasy. Bruce was happy and that was good enough for him.
Bruce walked, I believe. Hence the supplies and shit. Might've hitched a ride to the rough area once he got somewhat close to civilisation. A fair bit of time passes between getting out of the pit and the 12 hour bomb countdown though.
They gave the company to Miranda because Bane broke into the stock exchange and sold off all of Bruce's shares (why they got the fingerprints). Bruce and Lucius were trying to get someone in control who they could trust to not fuck with the fusion reactor. Basically it was either her or that guy who hired Bane and, obviously, she looked like the better option.
I believe it was dusk when they left the stock exchange. Still shouldn't have been that dark but just roll with it, it doesn't really matter.
Because he felt like it.
They came out of a doorway so there was no opportunity prior to the ice.
Because giving hope to what was left of Gotham was more important for a free for all than remaining unnoticed. By the very nature or trying to steal a bomb out of a truck under surveillance the plan was never going to be subtle.
The ice is magic! I don't know, one of those movie logic things you've just got to roll with. I don't know why everyone is choosing now to question movie logic, seems like everyone's mostly just trying to hate TDKR.
I just saw this, and, although I enjoyed, there are some niggling issues I can't pass up.
1) Bane was just blown away (literally) near the end, and then a new bad guy (Talia) pops up, and they start chasing her. Why? I don't think this was needed at all. I mean, Bane was put on this massive pedestal, and in the end seems more of a pawn than anything else. Don't think it did the character justice.
2) Furthermore, having Talia as the child that escaped the prison seemed another injustice to Bane. He was made up as some sort of super child that survived and escaped the depths of hell, but really, he's just a bloke that was also in there and got his face kicked in. Yeah, the League took him, and trained him I suppose, but he seemed a whole lot more scary when he was thought to be a freak of nature, rather than just some bloke nearby the real wonder child.
3) I don't know if this is a legitimate complaint (I may be imagining things), but it seemed the movie was too much in a rush to tie up loose ends. Just about everyone knows who Batman is, the flashbacks seemed irrelevant/unnecessary. I don't know, it seemed they were trying too hard to answer any questions that really didn't need answering.
4) Why was Batman so driven to take on Bane in the first half of the film? From what I can remember, Batman didn't really know what Bane was doing. He had killed a few guys, sure, but is that reason enough to have such a drive to take him on? Didn't make sense to me, and I really feel I missed something.
There's more, but I can't think of any right now. All that said though, I really did enjoy the film.
4) Why was Batman so driven to take on Bane in the first half of the film? From what I can remember, Batman didn't really know what Bane was doing. He had killed a few guys, sure, but is that reason enough to have such a drive to take him on? Didn't make sense to me, and I really feel I missed something.
I agree with all your points, but I can address this one.
It was intentionally vague about his motivation, truth be told he wasn't motivated at all, he wanted to be Batman for the sake of Batman, not his ideals. Alfred sort of comments on this by implying that Bane is more devoted to his cause (which makes the twist all the more annoying, Bane becomes more simple and less idealistic then)
Nouw said:
EDIT: Someone else says it changed too. Maybe it's the environment they were filming in?
Yea, I watched moviebob's review before seeing it, and I really disagree with all of his points on flaws in the movie other than pacing. Yea, the pacing was skittish at times, but I was still fully able to follow the plot pretty easy.
But then he says Bane shares nothing but a name with his comic book counter-part? Did... did he read the comics?
Bane is smart as hell. Check
Bane is strong as hell. Check
Bane is talkative as hell. Check
Bane was born and raised in a harsh, vicious prison. Check
Bane breaks all the criminals out of Stonegate Penitentiary. Check
Bane figures out Batman's identity. Check
Bane breaks Batman's back (but he gets better). Check
Bane becomes an associate of Ra's al Ghul. Check (he was his heir in the comics, though not in his introduction, and he was his pretend heir in the film)
So really they didn't make him THAT different to his comic book counterpart at all other than the race lift and the plot details like being friends with Talia or trying to blow up the city. Usually Bob has his facts straight, but I can't really see how he came to his conclusion about Bane at all. :/
I agree - I thought that Bane held a lot of similarities to his comic character. I don't know what MovieBob was on about there... Sure, he doesn't wear a wrestling-esque mask or have venom pumping to make him HENCH, but he was still just as charismatic and intelligent as he is in, say, Knightfall. I remember being shocked at that first of all in Knightfall. I didn't know much of Bane, apart from playing Arkham Asylum, in which he is portrayed as your stereotypical all-muscles-and-no-brain guy...but he really isn't like that at all.
OT
It was a great film, but definitely had its flaws, as did the previous two films (Batman leaving Joker in his penthouse with a load of civillians; Two-Face managing to dive out of Sal Maroni's car after shooting his driver, before it crashes, etc).
The bomb annoyed me for several reasons:
- it has a timer. Why? Now I don't have much experience with bombs irl, but I'm sure that a lot of them don't have timers.
- I'm not physicist, and it has been brought up already in this thread, but wouldn't it have caused greater damage than just a little mushroom cloud? If not a tsunami, then radiation, or blinding light? I know he's the goddamn Batman but could he really have survived...
That brings me on to my next point - the ending with Alfred, Bruce and Selina. I didn't like how it was EXACTLY the same as Alfred described it. The only reason I can see for that is that...it didn't really happen. But what would be the point in that? It was also frustrating how, if it did happen, Alfred's only reaction is his nod. Which, obviously, is what he said he'd do, but after seeing someone that close to you who you thought was dead...you think the reaction would be a little bigger? (This is in no way a criticism of Michael Caine's acting; I think the man is magnificent. His emotional scenes were brilliant).
Which then leads somewhat to my next point. Alfred was dismissed because he deceived Bruce with the whole RACHEL thing....so he then goes and sleeps with Miranda (who was sometimes really hot and sometimes wasn't, I found). Additionally, I didn't like how he ended up with Selina at the end. I'm fully aware of Batman/Catwoman's "relationship" in the comics - I've definitely read my fair share - and even though Catwoman does often redeem herself, I don't know...it just didn't seem right. All of the romance in that film seemed a little irrelevant. I'm guessing that Bruce only slept with Miranda to perhaps foreshadow the fact that was she was Talia, and, obviously, Bruce has a thing with her in the comics.
So, Talia. It was quite a good twist, but completely rendered Bane redundant. I thought that Hardy was brilliant as Bane, and, as I said before, completely disagree with MovieBob. It was a good, interesting, more realistic adaptation. I don't know how I felt about his voice. I liked it, then I didn't, then I did. But as soon as Talia was revealed, he just gets shotguned and that's it. As soon as it turns out that he is the kind of "second in command" he loses all of his menace and intimidation. I got a bit angry when they described Bane as Ra's' son...but obviously that was rectified later on.
I thought that the back fracturing scene (I say fracture...I don't think that he could have recovered that quickly, and in that kind of environment, the way Bruce did afterwards) was pretty much ripped from the comic pages, which was great.
Hmmm what else...
Just little things, most which have already been touched upon.
- Why was it suddenly snowing in Gotham?
- How did Bruce suddenly get back after being in the Pit? He had no money (presumably), few possessions, and he managed to get there very quickly after being in some Arabic prison.
- I didn't like the Batwing. I just didn't think that it fit. Saying that, neither did the Tumbler from the previous films, really.
Lastly, Ra's little bit. Ra's is one of my favourite Batman characters, and Liam Neeson is one of my favourite actors, so I was very much hoping he would appear. So that was fun. Though I wished it had been in the present, and in person, rather than flashbacks or a possible hallucination. Ra's can't die, damnit! And Crane/Scarecrow's cameo was brilliant. I loved the exile or death sequence.
Oh, one more thing. Joseph Gordon Levitt was fantastic. However, I think that the fact that his name was Robin was just a wink at the audience. I think that he becomes the new Batman (as is implied) but that's all - nothing else to do with any of the Robins. I think that that being his name was just a little pseudo-easter egg. I'm glad it happened though. I mean, a big theme in Knightfall, which is then taken for DKR, is that Batman can be anyone, and that he is a symbol, which JGL's story enforces. Arguably, The Dark Knight Rises title could indeed refer to him. Would have been interesting to see fan reaction if his name had been Jason...
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the film, and I'm a big Batman fanboy, but it is interesting to discuss its flaws. I find a lot of audience reaction to this kind of film can go one of two ways, for the most part:
People either loved it and deny any flaws
OR
People hate it (because that's the cool thing to do) and go against whatever positive things people say about it.
It's the middle ground we need to find. 'Twas a great film, with good acting and direction, but definitely not without its flaws.
I loved the movie. Granted TDK was better, but I still was completely entertained from beginning to end. Cinematography was almost perfect, I'm glad I saw it in imax. The plot was excellent and carried the movie through almost three hours. I loved the action sequences especially because they were sleek and smooth, no abusing of the shaky cam to be found.
There were a few issues with the plot. Batman's supernatural healing abilities bordered on ridiculous and Bane went out like a wimp. I would have rather seen Batman physically break and kill him with another kickass action sequence.
I'm glad to hear that I wasn't the only one that had a problem hearing Bane. So many times, Bane would say something and I would be like "Say what?" Hans Zimmer's score was almost perfect in its skullcrushing intensity, but it did overpower things at times.
As I expected, I already see people bitching about the movie on the internet (not dissing on anyone in this thread). Reading through some of these comments I see on the IMDB are making me wonder whether these people have ever even seen a movie before, let alone a superhero film.
Overall, fantastic movie, and well worth the $16 I spent to see it.
It was a very good movie, but it was structurally all over the place, and it suffered from Spiderman 3 too many villain syndrome. Also, some rather undignified and weightless deaths.
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