Square Enix Devs Offer Perspective on Western Game Making

[RobfromtheGulag]

"where orders come down from upper-level management"

This puts an awful lot of pressure on those few guys at the top. I wonder if this is why they've had so many PMs step down in the past few years.

 

[the1ultimate]

If believability means "rugged macho soldiers" they can keep it. Mind you, Japan seems to use only a few basic character types anyway.

What I would prefer would be an entire spectrum of characters. Mind you, I'd probably only really play the games with characters that I could relate to, but at least they would feel like less of a retread and that there are always other character types I could play if I wanted to.

 

[sosolidshoe]

Sorry Japan, but I'll take a steroidal SPEZ MAHREN!11! hero over an anonymous, androgynous emofag "hero" any day of the week.

I know I'll get hate for this from the more vehement weeaboos, but while Japanese games, especially JRPGs, get a lot of praise for "emotional" stories and characters, I find their stories to be childish caricatures in the same way as many western games. The only difference is the subject matter - western games are like Space, Above and Beyond, Japanese games are like The OC(or similar more relevant teen drama).

Frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of this idea that Japanese games have something special on western ones; they really don't.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Sorry Japan, but I'll take a steroidal SPEZ MAHREN!11! hero over an anonymous, androgynous emofag "hero" any day of the week.

I know I'll get hate for this from the more vehement weeaboos, but while Japanese games, especially JRPGs, get a lot of praise for "emotional" stories and characters, I find their stories to be childish caricatures in the same way as many western games. The only difference is the subject matter - western games are like Space, Above and Beyond, Japanese games are like The OC(or similar more relevant teen drama).

Frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of this idea that Japanese games have something special on western ones; they really don't.

I notice that Japanese storytelling tends to be not so much full of cliches as it becomes nothing more than a string of cliches sewn together blindly with little regard for logic. A western story mich be cliche just because the authors are uncreative, but the cliches will usually be properly used within the narrative framework, at least. Japanese authors often use cliches simply for the sake of using them, and because it's actually expected, resulting in something that only makes sense to somebody knowledgable with the history of how the genere developed.

Some stories seem to be nothing more than an excuse plot for said cliches.

The pair believed that Western developers weren't striving for realism in their games, so much as believability, and that an unrealistic protagonist was fine as long as players were able to suspend their disbelief. They said that trying to make believable characters resulted in a certain character type - rugged, macho soldiers - being fairly common in the West

Wait... they didn't know about this already? This is the basic cornerstone for good storytelling- creating a universe that diverges from reality, but is logical within those divergences, making it believable.

 

[Dorian Cornelius Jasper]

You, sir or madam, assume.

I'm not the only one, and that's because you took an accusatory tone towards Japanese developers in your original post in spite of the context in which the article was written. That is, of the increasing Westernization of Japanese games and how Japanese developers are trying to make their games more Western to appeal to a mass market. (And outsourcing development to Western studios, a trend that's picked up steam over the past decade.)

Setting aside the fact that you actually do enjoy JRPGs, given the topic at hand, is it any wonder your somewhat-inappropriate comment came off as inflammatory?

 

[mega48man]

about time they figure it out, i don't give a damn about realism in my video games, that's why i play video games, because they're make believe and fantasy

japan: "my mother died, i'm so sad, but i'm gonna pull off this wicked combo on this unrealted to the plot boss monster and screw up my concistency"
"lucretsia!"
"i feel so alone, running from my past"

western: "I...AM....GANDALF!!!! (BOOM!)"

this is why i hate final fantasy, they get hung up on the emotional shit instead of getting to the mines of moria to face the balrog of morgorf who SHALL NOT PASS!!! i really hope square enix reads this, i really do.

I hate both of those extremes, i like appropriate character development and appropriate action, which both involve the player's choices influencing the game. Basiclly i want to follow the concepts of TT rpgs.

is this what you meant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

also, if you dare disrespect the power of gandalf, i will not let you pass

No thats the monomyth, Im talking about player freedom within a game, with interest characters who react and grow rationally to the events around them. Also, Gandolf is a little girl next to Elminster.

i totally forgot where the discussion was going, but know this; you've royally pissed off Magneto and any other character Ian McKellan played as, so you best watch yourself around the shire AND minas tirith. rolling minas tirith in the hood, *****. gangsta style.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

I'm not at all surprised at the tons of hating on the "girly-boys" here, but it still bothers me. I've met women who look like men, men who look like women, and people whose gender I still am not sure about because it's really awkward to ask. Are you guys saying that there is no room in gaming for these kinds of people to be badass, or that the people that prefer an androgynous look to LOOK AT MY HUGE MUSCLES are somehow Doing It Wrong?

I think Japan has hit on an interesting point in their treatment of game characters. Not all of us can be Mr. Big Angry Muscleman with Balls of Steel (especially those of us who are female), and people who are looking for an immersive story/narrative experience rather than just a "blow stuff up" gameplay experience may very well identify better with a schoolkid (Persona), a frightened ten-year-old (FF XIII), or a Joe Schmo who likes to practice kendo in his spare time (Chrono Trigger, and I'm aware that Crono isn't androgynous).

It may be more realistic in the "who would we send if..." sense, that a huge bulky space marine in powerarmor is beating up aliens. But many times Japanese games give reasons why these skinny, androgynous, emotional people are the ones doing battle with the Forces of Evil -- a primary one is, "Because you're the only ones who know about it/can do anything/have the magical powers/etc." Don't send a space marine to do a Magically Bestowed Individual's job.

Also, don't lie -- most of everyone here probably resembles some JRPG character out there more than they resemble a 6'8", 300 lb space marine. I'm not saying you're all "girly-men," I'm saying that on average, not enough people are hardcore weightlifters and fanatical athletes to achieve that kind of physical power. You, whoever you may be, can probably identify better with the physical capability of someone who is more realistically sized for the average human. Maybe this doesn't appeal to a lot of people -- many people may want to be able to do things that huge muscle types can, and that's cool -- but I think it's neat that Jane Doe off the street can pick up a sword and learn to beat stuff up with it. That's the game saying, "Hey, you could do this, too!", and whether it is or isn't true, it's awesome to think about.

Females, androgynous characters, slender types, etc. should not go sit and cry in an emo corner. They should go kick ass and take names, too.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Western Developers have unbelievable muscle-macho-men, Japanese Developers have unbelievable 15 year old She-males. Both stereotypes suck, yet we keep seeing them because they sell games.

There are many Japanese protagonists that can be just as shallow and 1-dimensional as Western protagonists, many of whom follow precisely one-note from start to finish regardless of what happens.