I disagree, the reason the have gotten away with XIV final fantasys is that each game IS a different game, with different characters and different stories. so in turn they always can redeem themselves. Have you forgotten the transition from Final Fantasy VIII to final fantasy IX? IX was amazing, and VIII sucked, maybe its the same case, XIII will suck and XV will be the next revival.Squilookle said:
Square-Enix Isn't Sure Where to Take Final Fantasy
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Would it kill them to try western fantasy RPG mechanics just once? Maybe after that, they can find some kind of compromise between the styles of gameplay.
Halo and CoD dont remake a ENTIRE game each game, also, here what I've said before to someone else with the same mindsetQuickDEMOL1SHER said:
"I disagree, the reason the have gotten away with XIV final fantasys is that each game IS a different game, with different characters and different stories. so in turn they always can redeem themselves. Have you forgotten the transition from Final Fantasy VIII to final fantasy IX? IX was amazing, and VIII sucked, maybe its the same case, XIII will suck and XV will be the next revival."
How bout to the bin! The game hasn't been entertaining and stagnating for over decade and NOW you think you're running out of ideas!
South Korea seems to know how to blend the two together. Also, your edited post is very trollish.MattAn24 said:
No doubt a cliche thought: there's nothing to prevent them from making a Dragon Age style game with a JRPG twist on it.
-More open world exploration
-[optional] Character Development
-[many] Side Quests
-[*sigh] Morality options
-More open world exploration
-[optional] Character Development
-[many] Side Quests
-[*sigh] Morality options
the only direction this series should be headed in is to the nearest back alley surgeon for an ice pick lobotomy
Eh, I honestly don't care. I have never liked Final fantasy, and if 13 was any indication, I never will. Apparently people DO like these games, so I guess they should keep making them, even if there are somewhere in the ballpark of 30 FF games (and I don't care what you say, when you stick the FF name on THIRTY games, it is milking it)
So I guess you guys are just pretending Dirge of Cerberus didn't exist? That's cool... but seriously, chill out. Your acting like he's insulting you personally.MattAn24 said:
You mean like the transition from storylines that were more centered (not completely) in european mythos to anime centric that occured between ff 2-3(US) vs 7 and beyond?
Fact is I dont hate JRPGs. I appreciate the more linear nature and the more story centric nature because its a medium that allows for a better story to be told overall. I think it is great you have a very clear appreciation for anime. Yes, I take exception to anime, because as it has been put very clearly in the past, what point is there to cohesive writing when it doesnt matter what you say, just how loud you shout it, which is the fundamental governing principle over anime and its derivatives.
The fact is, the nature of the article is that SE doesnt know where to take the franchise, because they DO realize that NA region is where their bread is buttered, and they dont understand why the NA region is increasingly negative toward each new installment of the series. This is an attempt to show why.. people like me who ARE negative about the future of the franchise, Are negative in the first place.
As for the writing in western rpgs. "western writing and Japanese writing both need major work" sums it up pretty nicely. Fact is I never claimed bioware or Bethesda were churning out shakespear. But the fact is that its been a long time since ive seen an Squeenix narrative produce something relatively thought provoking ... Perhaps going as far back as Xeno gears or Vagrant story. While far from perfect, I would take the story line of Mass effect 2 over a story line revolving around self important gods with daddy issues convincing their children to wage war against an enemy that died out millenium ago, anyday. And as for the writing in Mass effect 2. Yanno, it does somewhat help to actually play the game before you go off railing on the narrative of the story based on playing a demo. It would be like calling Melville a hack because you didnt like the first 3 chapters of Moby Dick.
Everyone has their own style and tastes. To each their own in that respect. But the question, again is that SE doesnt know where to take the direction of the series. They say this because they can see there is a problem. If your happy with the current product, thats great. Its not like you wont be satiated by the hundreds of alternatives but it isnt you who they are worried about, because your content with it. there trying to figure out how to win back those who have lost faith in the series, and as someone who has, I am simply expressing my opinion as to why, which has been seconded by many of people who also have lost faith in the series.
Fact is Squeenix has repeatedly did everything in their power to alienate western sensibilities in the Final fantasy franchise, yet they dont understand why Western gamers arent as into it as eastern ones are. So given that they have tried to avoid westernizing the franchise as much as humanly possible, perhaps it is something worth a try for them. Besides.. this is Square enix we are talking about, the pride of Japanese gaming. You can take the final fantasy out of the eastern region, but you will never be able to take the JRPG out of the final fantasy.
Into space?
I'm aware that... the graphics... erg... make it... ugh... so you can't have an open world...
What the hell!? What a backwards notion. Weren't you pushing the bounds of the PS2 with FFXII? That didn't feel too particularly linear. An actual serious suggestion: The characters could use some major...
NO! No no no. Okay... what the hell. I can't say anything nice about what you could do with the characters. Stop it with these characters. Names are just what you call the person who is your (insert class or classes). Without the destinction of a class. Sure you can specialize your party members' skills, but without clearly defined roles, you're just choosing which people you hate the least. Without classes, they're all just tossers who aren't actually that important and could be replaced by anyone who gets up a gumption to go traveling.
FF12 didn't even make you have a required lead member! I just picked the people who I thought looked the coolest walking around.
I'm not saying backstories aren't important, but they shouldn't be one of the deciding factors of who you choose as a party member. Vivi was the blackmage... Princess Garnet was the Cleric/Summoner... Rusty was the knight... etc... etc. Without those classes, it's just another pissant jrpg that has nothing to do with being final fantasy.
---
Reading up, I see that I just put down most of FF7... and I like that game. Most of someone's lower stats could be manipulated using materia and items. So anyone could've been a mage, a defender or a striker... or all three. And range didn't matter... you eventually went with the characters you like the most. But... the only thing that made it final fantasy was Chocobos and maybe some of the summons.
---
So... here it is: Take the character system of Final Fantasy Tactics and change the battle system to realish-time with free movement. Put the setting in the modern future of Europe (hint: giant rings with smaller circles around a train-track is just as silly as plastic circles on lazer guns from the 70s). The story will be the hardest thing but... I don't know... have us deal with the initial war between two big nations (Erm... Indoril and Shinra's country of Evilton) and then the real threat is a weapon or tool designed for that war.
The party could be intially set up as a special ops task-force for an anonymous third-party that's tasked with weeding out and "cleaning up" the really dangerous stuff in the war... like super weapons/soldiers. Maybe we'd start off as the "B" team but take over when the real threat surprizes everyone and wipes out team alpha. The major threat, of course, can't be controlled and it causes both nations to evenually ally together against the evil or whatever. Or maybe we're all the evil ones and we accidentally created the good entity that is trying to save the world from us, that'd be a great twist.
Back to the characters: There'd only be one or two starting main characters, the rest are generics with names that you give a class. Through-out your travels... you can gain other main-character party members... but only the first two can be of any class, the other main characters have to be one class, but they're really good at it... like how it was done in Tactics.
Battle system: Party of three? Suckbus. Make it a bigger group... like a party of six people. That might seem too big to control, but give it a control system like Tales of Syphonia or something new and inovative I can't think of. Seriously... you don't get creative without being challenge... so challenge yourselves and come up with something that'll incorporate larger battles (without giving everyone the same command and letting them fight for a bit, thank you very much.) Maybe even something where an AI can control your character or multiple people can jump on and play. Like... Tales of... nevermind... already said that.
...what am I doing? Who the hell will ever read that?
INTO SPACE! HA!
I'm aware that... the graphics... erg... make it... ugh... so you can't have an open world...
What the hell!? What a backwards notion. Weren't you pushing the bounds of the PS2 with FFXII? That didn't feel too particularly linear. An actual serious suggestion: The characters could use some major...
NO! No no no. Okay... what the hell. I can't say anything nice about what you could do with the characters. Stop it with these characters. Names are just what you call the person who is your (insert class or classes). Without the destinction of a class. Sure you can specialize your party members' skills, but without clearly defined roles, you're just choosing which people you hate the least. Without classes, they're all just tossers who aren't actually that important and could be replaced by anyone who gets up a gumption to go traveling.
FF12 didn't even make you have a required lead member! I just picked the people who I thought looked the coolest walking around.
I'm not saying backstories aren't important, but they shouldn't be one of the deciding factors of who you choose as a party member. Vivi was the blackmage... Princess Garnet was the Cleric/Summoner... Rusty was the knight... etc... etc. Without those classes, it's just another pissant jrpg that has nothing to do with being final fantasy.
---
Reading up, I see that I just put down most of FF7... and I like that game. Most of someone's lower stats could be manipulated using materia and items. So anyone could've been a mage, a defender or a striker... or all three. And range didn't matter... you eventually went with the characters you like the most. But... the only thing that made it final fantasy was Chocobos and maybe some of the summons.
---
So... here it is: Take the character system of Final Fantasy Tactics and change the battle system to realish-time with free movement. Put the setting in the modern future of Europe (hint: giant rings with smaller circles around a train-track is just as silly as plastic circles on lazer guns from the 70s). The story will be the hardest thing but... I don't know... have us deal with the initial war between two big nations (Erm... Indoril and Shinra's country of Evilton) and then the real threat is a weapon or tool designed for that war.
The party could be intially set up as a special ops task-force for an anonymous third-party that's tasked with weeding out and "cleaning up" the really dangerous stuff in the war... like super weapons/soldiers. Maybe we'd start off as the "B" team but take over when the real threat surprizes everyone and wipes out team alpha. The major threat, of course, can't be controlled and it causes both nations to evenually ally together against the evil or whatever. Or maybe we're all the evil ones and we accidentally created the good entity that is trying to save the world from us, that'd be a great twist.
Back to the characters: There'd only be one or two starting main characters, the rest are generics with names that you give a class. Through-out your travels... you can gain other main-character party members... but only the first two can be of any class, the other main characters have to be one class, but they're really good at it... like how it was done in Tactics.
Battle system: Party of three? Suckbus. Make it a bigger group... like a party of six people. That might seem too big to control, but give it a control system like Tales of Syphonia or something new and inovative I can't think of. Seriously... you don't get creative without being challenge... so challenge yourselves and come up with something that'll incorporate larger battles (without giving everyone the same command and letting them fight for a bit, thank you very much.) Maybe even something where an AI can control your character or multiple people can jump on and play. Like... Tales of... nevermind... already said that.
...what am I doing? Who the hell will ever read that?
INTO SPACE! HA!
Frankly while I fancy the storyline and have little qualms with linearity in a general sense, Final Fantasy XIII was beyond general unfortunately. You were essentially held by the hand because the game was horrified if it allowed you to experiment, you would do things wrong. Aspects such as a predetermined battle party, 'tutorials' running through the entirety of the game and a battle system that restricts control whilst allowing for an auto pilot system, were dangerous steps that ultimately resulted in a fair amount of disappointment.
If Square returned to their old form, Final Fantasy X and those preceding it, they could easily reclaim their position. I always pondered why after the immense success of FFX, they deviated so radically in subsequent entries into the series. Now the mention of a interaction on a Mass Effect level would be fantastic, I wonder if this would be too far a step away from what is Final Fantasy.
My personal suggestions...
- Impact. Aerith dying was one of the largest impacts in the series due to the unforeseen likelihood of her death, especially not in the fashion it happened. The ending to FFX was remarkably emotional with the storyline build up only vaguely eluding to the result until near the latter portion of the game.
- Maturity. We can have our giddy happy-go-lucky girls and not completely disregard a mature overall flow. I love the light hearted tone however the target audience has grown older and it is time the series followed suit. The exception to the aforementioned characters is when they tie into the storyline in some manner. Maturity does not necessarily entail blood or visible sex scenes, although if tastefully done those could be a worthwhile addition (Mass Effect), nor does it require a realistic storyline, just realistic characters. Furthermore Square needs to cease their fear of 'edgy' characters for lack of a better word. Wrex's dark humor and dry wit have been adored by the fanbase. FF with their recent somber tone storyline could do wonders with someone like him.
- A primary character. We have tangled enough with this nonsense of not having a definitive main protagonist and frankly it has not worked wonders. Tidus and Yuna sharing the main character status was a successful venture however I believe all fans are in agreement Basch would have made a significantly superior main character to Vaan in every fathomable sense of the meaning. Lightning, well from my understanding, (I have yet to finish the game), she concedes the MC role frequently and in actuality Vanille latches on to it fairly often. Either way, the game requires a focal point.
Mass Effect - Shepard
Dragon Age - Grey Warden
Zelda - Link
and the majority of FFs preceding eleven.
- Decide on a system. Fancy the Sphere Grid? Good, develop it further. Rather the tried and true level/EXP? Shoot for it. Either way Square must cease with their horrid indecisiveness and choose a system. This is true for the combat system, whether it is turn based or real time, something has to become the stable. The incessant changing of the mechanics has become a tiresome venture due to gamers having found a likable system only to know improvements will never be rendered as the inevitable "start fresh" ideal rears it's ugly head. Moreover they would save a bundle if they were merely upgrading a single system, instead of redesigning one from the ground up.
If Square returned to their old form, Final Fantasy X and those preceding it, they could easily reclaim their position. I always pondered why after the immense success of FFX, they deviated so radically in subsequent entries into the series. Now the mention of a interaction on a Mass Effect level would be fantastic, I wonder if this would be too far a step away from what is Final Fantasy.
My personal suggestions...
- Impact. Aerith dying was one of the largest impacts in the series due to the unforeseen likelihood of her death, especially not in the fashion it happened. The ending to FFX was remarkably emotional with the storyline build up only vaguely eluding to the result until near the latter portion of the game.
- Maturity. We can have our giddy happy-go-lucky girls and not completely disregard a mature overall flow. I love the light hearted tone however the target audience has grown older and it is time the series followed suit. The exception to the aforementioned characters is when they tie into the storyline in some manner. Maturity does not necessarily entail blood or visible sex scenes, although if tastefully done those could be a worthwhile addition (Mass Effect), nor does it require a realistic storyline, just realistic characters. Furthermore Square needs to cease their fear of 'edgy' characters for lack of a better word. Wrex's dark humor and dry wit have been adored by the fanbase. FF with their recent somber tone storyline could do wonders with someone like him.
- A primary character. We have tangled enough with this nonsense of not having a definitive main protagonist and frankly it has not worked wonders. Tidus and Yuna sharing the main character status was a successful venture however I believe all fans are in agreement Basch would have made a significantly superior main character to Vaan in every fathomable sense of the meaning. Lightning, well from my understanding, (I have yet to finish the game), she concedes the MC role frequently and in actuality Vanille latches on to it fairly often. Either way, the game requires a focal point.
Mass Effect - Shepard
Dragon Age - Grey Warden
Zelda - Link
and the majority of FFs preceding eleven.
- Decide on a system. Fancy the Sphere Grid? Good, develop it further. Rather the tried and true level/EXP? Shoot for it. Either way Square must cease with their horrid indecisiveness and choose a system. This is true for the combat system, whether it is turn based or real time, something has to become the stable. The incessant changing of the mechanics has become a tiresome venture due to gamers having found a likable system only to know improvements will never be rendered as the inevitable "start fresh" ideal rears it's ugly head. Moreover they would save a bundle if they were merely upgrading a single system, instead of redesigning one from the ground up.
I think they should go back to the old style, where the technological limitations actually made their stories much tighter, faster-paced, and interesting. There is a space for the spectacle, but the super nintendo games I still feel are the best games of the series, and the characters were infinitely more likeable.
Ill simplify the notion. Fact is, a lot of the reason for western negativity toward the franchise is because a large portion of the western market for the game has been fans of the series for 20-25 years now. Meaning they have now grown up, and matured, and as such would like to see more mature themes, instead of seeing their lead characters look like children, act like children, and pal around with the likes of donald duck in their off time, or forming the Jpop equivilent to charlies angels.
They're all still branded as a 'Final' Fantasy, and with each new relese they prove themselves wrong...Nick Angelici said: