Square Enix Responds to "Racist" Deus Ex Character

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Harbinger_

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I laugh how there are two black characters in the game that are well educated and with the most authority at a processing planet in the game that don't speak with any sort of broken english or denotable accent and he just ignores that completely. One character seems out of place!!!!!!!1!!!!! Seriously, this guy is a moron.
 

skohl

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AdumbroDeus said:
the suggestion that ebonics use implies being uneducated and inferior is racist.
Of course it implies that the speaker is uneducated. It's a bastardization of the language, and more to the point, makes the speaker sound stupid, even if they're not. As far as inferiority goes, that's a matter of opinion and it appears to be yours in this case. I guess you're racist by your own definition.
 

skohl

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Harbinger_ said:
I laugh how there are two black characters in the game that are well educated and with the most authority at a processing planet in the game that don't speak with any sort of broken english or denotable accent and he just ignores that completely. One character seems out of place!!!!!!!1!!!!! Seriously, this guy is a moron.
It's almost surprising he didn't complain about the Thorpes. "What, the black woman is taken hostage by a Latino terrorist?! RACIST. What, her husband knows an illegal weapons dealer!? RACIST."
 

AdumbroDeus

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skohl said:
AdumbroDeus said:
the suggestion that ebonics use implies being uneducated and inferior is racist.
Of course it implies that the speaker is uneducated. It's a bastardization of the language, and more to the point, makes the speaker sound stupid, even if they're not. As far as inferiority goes, that's a matter of opinion and it appears to be yours in this case. I guess you're racist by your own definition.
"Bastardization" is only a comparison to the common language of the day. Language evolves, shakespeare was a bastardization in his time as well.

There is NOTHING inferior or uneducated about ebonics, especially as compared to other "valid" dialects of English. There is nothing inherent in the dialect that makes it that way, it's merely an impression gleaned because that particular dialect happens to be spoken by a group that people in America have a desire to feel inferior to.


Your accusation of racism is a complete non-sequitar cause I never argued ebonics was inferior nor implied it's speakers were inferior.
 

PhoenixVanguard

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I actually agree to most of what you said there Phantom Echo, which is why at the end of my post I make sure to point out that despite Narcisse decrying the racism he sees in the portrayal, it's ultimately not overly important because he still very enthusiastically recommends the game as a whole. The main point he brings up is a true one, though...Leticia's mannerisms in the game are a near mirror mimic of black faced, Amos & Andy "mammy" style send ups of black people. Whether it personally offends you or is reminiscent of real people, the fact of the matter is that it's unarguably an allusion to some of the most racist fiction in American history. And further, while there are sects of people who speak that way, her particular spiel is so poorly written and poorly acted that it comes off as an over-the-top caricature. And once you deviate from realistic portrayal to practical cartoon spoof, it qualifies as racist and potentially harmful.

Personally, I believe it's unintentional and relatively harmless, but I can't reasonably make the argument it's not there. I can only say it's not that big a deal, and that even the writer of the article doesn't seem to think as much of it as the people on this forum. My primary point was simply that the counter argument of "Well SOME people talk that way so THERE!" is inherently flawed. While I'm at it, I'll go on to say that as a black gamer that was raised in the south...YES...there IS something inherently wrong and inferior with ebonics. It's not a matter of being politically correct or a matter of expression. All languages have their own proper grammar and syntax. If you deviate...it is wrong. Period. There are times where expression may create exclusions...songs, poetry, art in general, but if you speak that way on a day to day basis...you are factually WRONG. No better than abbreviated 1337 net speak. No two ways about it.
 

DarkCrescendo

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Isn't that Evan guy the same guy who posted that RE5 was racist? I laughed my ass off when I read that blog. If anyone is a racist, it is him. By his point of view, its okay to see millions of white people slaughter brutally, but put one black person in the mix...IT'S RACIST! See? Two can play that game. I'm sure he would have been crying "RACISM" if there hadn't been black people in the game, seeing as how it took place in Africa. This whole thing is nothing but a load of bunk to stir up pointless controversy.
 

Anah'ya

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Jun 19, 2010
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PhoenixVanguard said:
I was horribly offended by the German accents I ran into.

...

No, I wasn't.

I was offended by the fact that the last antagonist was a woman, that is so sexist.

No. Wait. I wasn't.

Sorry for quoting you here, but you seemed to be both dismissive of the whole idea, yet understanding where he comes from. Though I do NOT understand where he comes from. I support the theory that everyone is allowed to be treated equally. Whether that means we have white antagonists, black antagonists, German antagonists or characters with "stereotypical"... I mean, am I allowed to be offended when a white woman is painted in bad light? No. But a black person is allowed to be offended when another black person in a GAME is painted in something they consider offensive.

If everyone has to start turning over their writing five times to make sure it is fully "offence free" we will stop seeing single moms, adopted kids, drug victims, rape victims... and the list goes on.

So.

Yeah.

No offence, but being offended by a game is ridiculous.
 

martyrdrebel27

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when i close my eyes, this is a video of batman talking to a woman audtioning for the next "Eat Dat Watermelon!" video. I can see the underlying racism here, but I honestly don't think it was intended, I think it's a matter of poor writing meeting poor VO work with someone so desperate for money, they don't care if they disparage their entire race.
 

Aedrial

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Jun 24, 2009
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I was hoping for a 'No! You're racist' reply from Square Enix... Oh well. I personally just think it adds to the 'diversity' of characters so to speak. Not every black person can sound like the old spice guy.
 

Nico4

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Gah, just ignore this. Stupid controversy. Is it bad that I never saw the character in the game though?
 

Cheesus333

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DanielBrown said:
I'm more bothered with the protagonists voice. What's happened to his throat?
The obvious answer would be "he done got effed up in the prologue mission" but Hell, he sounded like he'd been taking gravel to fix a sore throat even before that.

OT: I don't think it's racist. I think this guy's a moron, and Letitia is funny as Hell but there's no racism involved.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Uber Waddles said:
Have you heard the Asian voice actors in this game?

They aren't much better. I don't think its people being overtly racist. Its just some black lady. Shes uneducated, unrefined, and uncivilized. How better to portray that than to have her speak broken English and just act in a dumb manner.

Racism isn't really something thats done by acting. Racism would be pointing to that display of acting, and saying "all blacks are like that because they're inferior". Blackface pretty much did this for comical effect. This just does it because it felt like doing it.

If you honestly think this is racist, you need to step back, get off your high horse, and get in touch. Pointing to things people do isn't racist. Even if it is a feature exhibited by a certain racial group. Do you know why stereotypes exist? Because a good chunk of them are accurate to some degree of a population.

Portraying a black person as an idiot isn't racist. There are black people out there that are idiots, just as there are whites, asians, hispanics. Racism would be pointing to them and saying "All blacks are dumb because of they have a different pigment in their skin"

Ill even go a step further, and go back to RE5. Portraying African tribals in leopard skin clothing isn't racist. Its been done before. And guess what - there are still African tribes who use spears. Spears didn't go extinct. There are still civilizations of people who live off the land, in makeshift houses with makeshift materials.

To be honest, I find it stupid that issues of race, sex, etc. can ever come up because there are actually people of a race, sex, etc. who act that way. If you find anything that doesn't overtly point to a race and say "they are inferior because they are different", you need to re-evaluate some things.

ITS. A. GAME. GET OVER IT PEOPLE

As I've said in my other posts in this thread, it's just rabble rousing for attention since people want to keep the belief in mainstream American racism alive for political reasons. The portrayal here is fine, and works.

It was the same thing with "Resident Evil 5", the problem wasn't the game, but with a media willing to give ridiculousness like this a platform. It's like saying that National Geographic should be attacked for showing tribals as tribals. "Resident Evil 5" showed a pretty diverse selection of african locales overall.

I dunno though, if this kind of thing continues I'm wondering if maybe we should get a bunch of "angry white guys" together to sue the guys who made '300' over the offensive portayal of whites. After all we aren't olive/dusky skinned greeks, those are the guys who enslaved us poor, primitive anglo saxons! But wait, who says we were primitive, WTF are those guys doing without proper armor, and wielding spears and swords!?1?!?!? everyone knows real white guys fight with guns and cruise missles. Obviously '300' is racist, and it being a work of "historical fantasy" is nothing butt an effort to insult and make fun of white people! I demand millions of dollars in repairations... and them to re-edit the movie to give the Spartans Kevlar and M-16s! At the end Leonidas shouldn't throw a spear at Xerxes, but call down a cruise missle strike....
 

AdumbroDeus

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Therumancer said:
Uber Waddles said:
Have you heard the Asian voice actors in this game?

They aren't much better. I don't think its people being overtly racist. Its just some black lady. Shes uneducated, unrefined, and uncivilized. How better to portray that than to have her speak broken English and just act in a dumb manner.

Racism isn't really something thats done by acting. Racism would be pointing to that display of acting, and saying "all blacks are like that because they're inferior". Blackface pretty much did this for comical effect. This just does it because it felt like doing it.

If you honestly think this is racist, you need to step back, get off your high horse, and get in touch. Pointing to things people do isn't racist. Even if it is a feature exhibited by a certain racial group. Do you know why stereotypes exist? Because a good chunk of them are accurate to some degree of a population.

Portraying a black person as an idiot isn't racist. There are black people out there that are idiots, just as there are whites, asians, hispanics. Racism would be pointing to them and saying "All blacks are dumb because of they have a different pigment in their skin"

Ill even go a step further, and go back to RE5. Portraying African tribals in leopard skin clothing isn't racist. Its been done before. And guess what - there are still African tribes who use spears. Spears didn't go extinct. There are still civilizations of people who live off the land, in makeshift houses with makeshift materials.

To be honest, I find it stupid that issues of race, sex, etc. can ever come up because there are actually people of a race, sex, etc. who act that way. If you find anything that doesn't overtly point to a race and say "they are inferior because they are different", you need to re-evaluate some things.

ITS. A. GAME. GET OVER IT PEOPLE

As I've said in my other posts in this thread, it's just rabble rousing for attention since people want to keep the belief in mainstream American racism alive for political reasons. The portrayal here is fine, and works.

It was the same thing with "Resident Evil 5", the problem wasn't the game, but with a media willing to give ridiculousness like this a platform. It's like saying that National Geographic should be attacked for showing tribals as tribals. "Resident Evil 5" showed a pretty diverse selection of african locales overall.

I dunno though, if this kind of thing continues I'm wondering if maybe we should get a bunch of "angry white guys" together to sue the guys who made '300' over the offensive portayal of whites. After all we aren't olive/dusky skinned greeks, those are the guys who enslaved us poor, primitive anglo saxons! But wait, who says we were primitive, WTF are those guys doing without proper armor, and wielding spears and swords!?1?!?!? everyone knows real white guys fight with guns and cruise missles. Obviously '300' is racist, and it being a work of "historical fantasy" is nothing butt an effort to insult and make fun of white people! I demand millions of dollars in repairations... and them to re-edit the movie to give the Spartans Kevlar and M-16s! At the end Leonidas shouldn't throw a spear at Xerxes, but call down a cruise missle strike....
The fact that this portrayal isn't racist doesn't change the fact that racism in america is still alive and well today. All you need to do is look at media, how often do you see an asian-american lead? Now add to that, how often do you see an asian-american lead that isn't playing a martial artist or a comedic character of some variety?


And if you think that RE5's portrayal of tribals was anything but a racist caricature, you have about as much knowledge of African tribesmen as Capcom seems to.
 

Mister Linton

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AdumbroDeus said:
And if you think that RE5's portrayal of tribals was anything but a racist caricature, you have about as much knowledge of African tribesmen as Capcom seems to.
Meaning, a lot more than you know. Visually, they look spot on (a quick Google Image search will confirm this for you) and their behavior is moot since they are infected in the game. I wonder where people get these stupid ideas about what is "racist".

On topic: Confirmed with my wife and her family, Letitia is NOT racist. Neither is The Help and The Blind Side as Moviebob continues to insist. Then again, I didn't need to confirm what is plain to see for anyone not blinded by liberal propaganda.
 

AdumbroDeus

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Mister Linton said:
AdumbroDeus said:
And if you think that RE5's portrayal of tribals was anything but a racist caricature, you have about as much knowledge of African tribesmen as Capcom seems to.
Meaning, a lot more than you know. Visually, they look spot on (a quick Google Image search will confirm this for you) and their behavior is moot since they are infected in the game. I wonder where people get these stupid ideas about what is "racist".

On topic: Confirmed with my wife and her family, Letitia is NOT racist. Neither is The Help and The Blind Side as Moviebob continues to insist. Then again, I didn't need to confirm what is plain to see for anyone not blinded by liberal propaganda.
No.

Headhunter masks? Flaming arrows? Obviously larger and more organized society then isolated tribesman could create (which are the only group non-westernized enough to pull it off). Small poor isolated village (without the masks), cool.

Massive wooden cities whose inhabitants clearly evoke headhunters suggests a lot more, unless your telling me the organization and city was entirely due to being infected.
 

floobie

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Ugh. People are way too easily offended these days. By this logic, as someone of German descent, I should be offended by every ridiculous portrayal of a German in every WWII video game ever. That certainly doesn't represent your typical German, even back in the 30s and 40s. Similarly, as a Canadian, basically every American depiction of a Canadian ever should be hugely offensive to me. I've never meet a Canadian that even remotely conforms to any of those stereotypes. I don't even know where they're coming from.

And yet, neither bother me.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's no malicious intent, it's all up for grabs.
 

Mister Linton

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AdumbroDeus said:
Headhunter masks? Flaming arrows? Obviously larger and more organized society then isolated tribesman could create (which are the only group non-westernized enough to pull it off). Small poor isolated village (without the masks), cool.

Massive wooden cities whose inhabitants clearly evoke headhunters suggests a lot more, unless your telling me the organization and city was entirely due to being infected.
Ceremonial masks are quite common. Now the scale of the game environment and number of enemies was a racist design choice huh? Oookaayy.
 

theultimateend

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Sylveria said:
I'd be more offended by the people saying "This woman is an african-american stereotype" than by the actual character itself. You must be pretty darn racist to see something that over the top and say "Yup, that's what black people sound like."
My thoughts.

Basically people saw that character and immediately had racist thoughts about it.

I'm interested in someone making a list of all the kinds of people you can't put in games, movies, music, or stories anymore.

Cause it seems like the list is growing.

"This kind of black person no longer is real and is racist, that kind of Chinese person is racist, that kind of white person is racist, oh and that Indian guy over there definitely is."

Generally the ones offended are the ones living their days judging people by the unimportant (ie. uncontrollable) factors.

floobie said:
Ugh. People are way too easily offended these days. By this logic, as someone of German descent, I should be offended by every ridiculous portrayal of a German in every WWII video game ever. That certainly doesn't represent your typical German, even back in the 30s and 40s. Similarly, as a Canadian, basically every American depiction of a Canadian ever should be hugely offensive to me. I've never meet a Canadian that even remotely conforms to any of those stereotypes. I don't even know where they're coming from.

And yet, neither bother me.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's no malicious intent, it's all up for grabs.
I'm reminded of all the pre-war videos of young German soldiers in camp. Looked like a bunch of kids who would rather be out singing, drinking, and playing games.

Shame what would become of their future.

(Also yes, yes, I know, anything that portrays German soldiers as normal humans is propaganda, they were REALLY summoning demons to aid them in the war against the holy alliance).

AdumbroDeus said:
The fact that this portrayal isn't racist doesn't change the fact that racism in america is still alive and well today. All you need to do is look at media, how often do you see an asian-american lead? Now add to that, how often do you see an asian-american lead that isn't playing a martial artist or a comedic character of some variety?


And if you think that RE5's portrayal of tribals was anything but a racist caricature, you have about as much knowledge of African tribesmen as Capcom seems to.
There are a lot of white people acting, a good portion of those white people play stupid characters, comic relief, or your generic imbecile/jerk.

For every one of these games you can just as easily do it with white folks.

Because movie directors tend to suck. There are a bunch of films out there, a phenomenal amount. Most of them portray people generically, regardless of race.

I'd be up for Lucy Liu replacing Sandra Bullock in all her films. Lets do this.

It won't change anything about the films, nor does it matter, but it'll make some sensitive people happy and I find Lucy Liu to be delightful.

Which reminds me, was she the only racist portrayal in Charlie's Angels? Cause I mean, she was doing martial arts.
 

SextusMaximus

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May 20, 2009
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This guy's the racist. Thankfully, we can be glad that he just gave press to n absolutely fantastic game!