Square Enix Responds to "Racist" Deus Ex Character

[Jaime_Wolf]

You know what causes problems? People who have NO FUCKING CLUE about these things claiming that they're offensive.

Broken English? Her English is largely perfect and representative of a huge chunk of English speakers.

You know what's fucking damaging? Saying that these people don't exist or that there's something wrong with their speech.

 

[ultrachicken]

So the fact that there are plenty of black people in the game with personalities varying wildly gets overlooked by this guy because there is one person who fits some stereotype? Stereotypes exist because there are people who fit them, but the reason they're wrong is that nowhere near the entire demographic fits the stereotype. So having one person who fits some stereotype in a sea of totally different people is not racist, because the devs clearly don't think all black people act that way.

 

[Funcakes]

Why do we even give this crap the time of day?

MILD SPOILERS
By the way, let's just ignore the black female cop trying to dig up dirt on a corrupt white cop, or the black couple who thank you for saving their lives, or the smooth talking black hacker. Or any of the other various nationalities sprinkled in the plot.

Yeah, these people are ku klutz, for sure.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

Except Irish isn't a race, it's a nationality. Yes, it would be nice if there were portrayals of Irish people other than Leprechauns and drunkards, but even if you were serious it wouldn't be racism.

What term do you propose instead? Nationalityism? Not a word. Nationalism? Something different. Xenophobia? That's fear of all people of a different nationality to your own, not of one specific nationality. Hiberniphobia? But we're not talking about the fear of the Irish, only their inaccurate characterisation.

I'm happy for racism to refer to the discrimination of more narrowly defined ethnic groups that are not necessarily races, where the discrimination is of the same sort usually referred to as racism. I don't understand the reluctance to allow the meanings of words to change over time, as they have always done; it seems like an apologist move to me.

When anyone makes a point similar to yours ("Islamophobia is not racism" is a common one) it seems to me like their implication is "it's not racism, therefore it's not as bad as racism."

Just "prejudice" seems to work fine for me. Letting racism refer to more than just race isn't allowing the language to change, it's allowing people to be fucking lazy. "Race" is the root word of "racism". As such, it makes sense for it to refer to discrimination due to race.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Except Irish isn't a race, it's a nationality.

Irish is also an ethno-cultural population group. (edit in: also, if you ever read any of the government writings of the time dealing with their policy in Ireland, for most of the time the UK occupied Ireland they did consider the Irish to be a 'race')

Of course, being a socio-cultural construct with no scientific basis, 'race' is a nebulous concept. Any group arbitrarily decided on my similarity of broad physical characteristics can be a 'race' if the people bent on keeping them down say they're a race.

Post-Federation Australia, especially post-WW2 Australia, is a case in point. Everybody knows how shitful Australia has treated (and still does to an extent) it's indigenous population... Most people have at least an inkling about the White Australia policy... but what most people have no idea about is that most 'racism' in Australia from the late 40s until the early 80s was aimed at Southern and Eastern Europeans. Local Aussies did not consider them 'white'... they didn't consider anyone not of north-west European origin to be 'white'... much to the outrage of certain southern and eastern european racists who found themselves in Australia finding themselves to be told 'fuck off, wog!" by local racists... which is a pretty lengthy way of explain that what defines a 'race' is in the eye of the 'racist'.


edit to continue:

Letting racism refer to more than just race isn't allowing the language to change, it's allowing people to be fucking lazy. "Race" is the root word of "racism". As such, it makes sense for it to refer to discrimination due to race.

'Race' may be the root word but it's very nebulous because, at the end of the day, it's a very stupid concept. Which set of definitions are people using? The 'classic' Caucasoid/Negroid/Mongaloid model? The "well that bunch of people all look a bit similar so we'll just group them together under one name because the 'classic' model misses a huge chunk of people" school? The 'one drop' rule? The paper bag test? How about skull measurements? Very popular in late 19th century Europe for (ahem) 'determining' all sorts of things, from 'race' to 'criminality' to 'mental illness'.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

This character is a clearly racist stock persona from the days when "stupid negro" was an acceptable definition for a character.

Out of curiosity, just how exactly is Letitia 'stupid'?

 

[Droppa Deuce]

As a young (educated) black dude here's my take of the game:

It's epic.

I also love seeing this many different races in a game, it's a great representation of the megacities of the present and the future. The world is integrating, and that's an unavoidable and very good thing IMO.

When I saw Leticia, I didn't even think about the race issue. I was just interested in what she had to say to me.

The game is full of colourful characters, and I'm not going to let a few square people ruin the experience for me.

Deus Ex:HR is GOTY so far. Only Batman Arkham City and Skyrim can topple it now.

 

[LadyMint]

Here's the thing. Her more stereotypical method of speaking came during her energized greeting to the main character. And honestly, it did sound terrible to me. Not racist, mind you, just awful in the writing department. But that sort of over-the-top charicature-esque way of speaking is a typical greeting I've seen and been given from close friends in the South. If you'll notice, she was much calmer and sounded better while being questioned. Yes, her grammar was sub-par, but there's a word for that: Dialect. I know people who talk just like her all the time, and others who switch from speaking "Proper American English" to that particular dialect depending on who they're with.

... Did I fail to mention her voice acting is horrible anyway? Most of the time it didn't match the expression on her face/animation of her body language.

 

[CityofTreez]

Here's the thing. Her more stereotypical method of speaking came during her energized greeting to the main character. And honestly, it did sound terrible to me. Not racist, mind you, just awful in the writing department.

Agree. Race never came to mind. What did, how ever, was the horrid writing and just overall "meh" scene.

 

[brainslurper]

I fucking love when this happens. Remember in mafia II, the italians got pissed because they thought that the game made it seem like all italians are mafia members? No, it is simply portraying italian mafia members. Just because the game represents a black person who sounds like that doesn't mean that it is implying that all black people sound like that.

 

[Moosejaw]

Here's the thing. Her more stereotypical method of speaking came during her energized greeting to the main character. And honestly, it did sound terrible to me. Not racist, mind you, just awful in the writing department. But that sort of over-the-top charicature-esque way of speaking is a typical greeting I've seen and been given from close friends in the South. If you'll notice, she was much calmer and sounded better while being questioned. Yes, her grammar was sub-par, but there's a word for that: Dialect. I know people who talk just like her all the time, and others who switch from speaking "Proper American English" to that particular dialect depending on who they're with.

... Did I fail to mention her voice acting is horrible anyway? Most of the time it didn't match the expression on her face/animation of her body language.

Well, welcome to Deus Ex: HR. Everyone makes way too many unnecessary movements whenever they talk, and always the same ones. One of the few complaints I had about the game.

 

[Jake Martinez]

I'm constantly surprised as to the visceral response of a bunch of privledged white people on the internet when questions like this come up. Not in a good way either.

Anyway, for me, I find the entire character very uncomfortable, because as it has been pointed out, it seems so dead on to an old Amos 'n Andy, shuck 'n jive, sort of racial stereotype. I also know that not many people who are watching this will have that same context to call back on, so they won't have the same visceral emotional response.

Suffice it to say, for those of us who do make the connection, it's offensive. I don't really know if people (especially journalists) should keep using the term "racist" in cases like this. It's hard to say what the game developers were trying for. As other people have pointed out some of the asian cast voices from the original DE were so bad they bordered on racial stereotyping as well. At what point does ineptutude and insensitivity just remain that and when does it turn into racism? It's hard to say.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

At what point does ineptutude and insensitivity just remain that and when does it turn into racism?

According to the internet, it's when a white Australian gives KFC to black West Indians.

 

[scott91575]

I was more offended by the amount of credits she wanted for some simply information. Hey lady, you are digging through the trash. You should be lucky to get 5 credits for information I can find on my own. Perhaps that is why she is digging through the trash. She priced herself out of the market.

 

[garlicncow]

holy shit, ok ill just make my point short and sweet,

it isnt racist, why?

people actually talk like that now
it could have been how they where raised my guess is that in 2027 people about my age would be in their 30s or so like Laetitia, some people i know actually talk like that and are black so it isnt a stretch to say that perhaps they retain that essence of their life and continue to talk like that
a portrayal of a fictional future having real elements that are inherit to a certain race doesnt make it racist it makes it less fiction and more realistic and for the most part immersive in most cases, i wasnt even phased by this


calling something racist to me means that you are A: offended B: attention whoring C: too immature to handle facts of life

why?

A: the only reason people get pissed when i call some "mentally challenged" kid a retard is because they are trying to be PC, see bob's big picture on this, look its quicker and its true im sorry but retard means slow they are--in their thinking processes of any/some kind-- slow

B: attention whoring is probably the odd of the 3 in that it requires the person to not be insulted by it but rather pretend to be insulted to make themselves look better and have the eyes on them, these arguments are generally flimsy and easy to see through but sometimes the attention whores deserve to be acknowledged, this is one of those cases because it calls them out on their massive insecurity in themselves

C: alright this is a pretty easy one for me to rattle off, jinx was originally black, black people have dark skin, obviously racist right because jinx is fat and has a lot of make up right? no jinx was actually a social commentary of the overly western Japanese sub-culture (cant remember name its on cracked)but people had to get so fucking butthurt they had to reskin jinx, people cant just accept somethings deserve to be made fun of and have to make them about themselves (see B) this is a mixture of a lack of knowledge so ill provide another argument

the word ****** is a good example here, white people are so fucking afraid of the word for the most part they refuse to even think it with out putting some self guilt in their head for good measure, but black people say it all the fucking time, so is it really insulting if the people it refers to use it themselves? no it isnt and claiming it to be is just an example of B, shit happens people die words are said, get the fuck over it and focus on what really matters for a change and dont just think because a game resembles something in the real world that it is racist, a black woman could possibly talk like that who are you to stereotype an entire skin tone and gender combination out of a way of talking i think that would be a little bit more racist than one voice actor reading their lines, after all the person who read the lines seemed to not have an issue with it because they read the damn lines.

 

[zarathustra2k1]

A quick google search on Evan Narcisse reveals that he went to high school and college in New York. Obviously he hasn't spent much time down south, like Alabama for instance, which just so happens to be where I live. There is nothing racist at all about the character's portrayal in that video. I encounter people who talk like that every single day here.

QFT

 

[skohl]

I'd love for someone to explain to me how her accent is hateful or discriminatory in any way, shape or form.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

He is free to be offended, doesnt mean its a racist issue. That game had Chinese talking bad english and sterotype black gang members. All the prostitutes i saw where white, apart from one black woman who turns out to be a police woman. An when you think about it, all the major baddies were white? Dont see white people bitching about that. So until a black character is talking about chicken and watermelon and calling your character "master" then their is no racism.

The game had different races in different parts from street people to business people. An stop seeing racial stuff in every little thing, this will just hurt the game. An will make other real racist stuff taken less seriously. Think of it like PETA and the animals, they moan so often about dumb animal stuff that when they have an important issue.....no one listens as they have made their group a laughing stock.

 

[SammiYin]

Since when was people not talking in your standard American accent racist? Not everybody has to be a gravelly voiced white man.
People overreact to the stupidest things.