Square Enix Responds to "Racist" Deus Ex Character

[Lancer873]

*sigh* Let's get one thing clear, folks.

If there is anything I would love to get clear, it would be the fact that your definition of racism is not law, and means next to nothing. You can't come in here and act like you wrote the text book on racism. It's an incredibly complex thing and everyone's definition is different. Just because someone has a different definition to you doesn't give you the right to bring in the old *siiiigh*s.

Saying that women tend to like dresses, that's not sexist.

So it's not racist if I say black people tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded?

I think it is.

Well for starters, black people do not tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded, and secondly, that actually constitutes something offensive, and, as I mentioned later in that post, would make it clear that you hold blacks to be an "inferior" race. The fact that a significant amount of females tend to get an enjoyment out of fashion-based subjects that most men do not understand is not offensive, and is actually true. What I'm saying is that, statistically speaking, many stereotypes exist because they hold some semblance of truth. It's not wrong to acknowledge that there are differences between the majority of one group, and the majority of another group. It's wrong to hold this as proof that the other group is "inferior" in some way to the other, or to believe that there are no exceptions to the statistic. Let's put it this way: If I say "women have nipples that are larger than men's," am I being sexist? No, because this is true. The extra X chromosome that women have tends to do that. If I say that "Men, on average, are stronger, in terms of upper-body strength, than women," am I being sexist? Most people would think I am, but statistically and scientifically speaking, this is true. Testosterone increases muscle buildup, especially in the upper-body. It would be sexist to believe that it is impossible for a woman to be stronger than me (most women are probably actually stronger than me in terms of upper-body strength. I'm not very strong), or to claim this somehow makes a man who is weaker than a woman "inferior" to other men.

Now, there may be some stereotypes that are being enforced in a sort of way in today's society. I, too, realize that it's sick for women to be idolizing people with eating disorders and for men to idolize steroid abusers, these stereotypes are wrong, but that is because we are viewing these stereotypes as "better". We cannot ignore the fact that there are differences between races, sexes, and religions. I do not think that racial sensitivity means we should try to pretend that everybody is on even grounds, because that's just not the way the world works.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

No offense but what I think the guys is trying to say is that this Stereotype ISN'T accurate. It's actually pretty bizzarre in fact to have a street lady with an ancient deep southern accent wandering around 2077 Detroit?


btw I don't like dresses or fashion! /rasp! ;p

 

[AdumbroDeus]

Black people in a game? Must be racist!

Southern accent?! Of course it must be racist!

God I wish I was so simple minded as to think in that manner. It'd make me reading this awhole lot less enraging. It's not racist. People are just easily offended. Simple as that.

Errrr

That's not a southern accent... at all.


It bears some resemblence to a southern accent but it's actually mostly regulated to urban centers.

*sigh* Let's get one thing clear, folks.

If there is anything I would love to get clear, it would be the fact that your definition of racism is not law, and means next to nothing. You can't come in here and act like you wrote the text book on racism. It's an incredibly complex thing and everyone's definition is different. Just because someone has a different definition to you doesn't give you the right to bring in the old *siiiigh*s.

Saying that women tend to like dresses, that's not sexist.

So it's not racist if I say black people tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded?

I think it is.

Well for starters, black people do not tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded, and secondly, that actually constitutes something offensive, and, as I mentioned later in that post, would make it clear that you hold blacks to be an "inferior" race. The fact that a significant amount of females tend to get an enjoyment out of fashion-based subjects that most men do not understand is not offensive, and is actually true. What I'm saying is that, statistically speaking, many stereotypes exist because they hold some semblance of truth. It's not wrong to acknowledge that there are differences between the majority of one group, and the majority of another group. It's wrong to hold this as proof that the other group is "inferior" in some way to the other, or to believe that there are no exceptions to the statistic. Let's put it this way: If I say "women have nipples that are larger than men's," am I being sexist? No, because this is true. The extra X chromosome that women have tends to do that. If I say that "Men, on average, are stronger, in terms of upper-body strength, than women," am I being sexist? Most people would think I am, but statistically and scientifically speaking, this is true. Testosterone increases muscle buildup, especially in the upper-body. It would be sexist to believe that it is impossible for a woman to be stronger than me (most women are probably actually stronger than me in terms of upper-body strength. I'm not very strong), or to claim this somehow makes a man who is weaker than a woman "inferior" to other men.

Now, there may be some stereotypes that are being enforced in a sort of way in today's society. I, too, realize that it's sick for women to be idolizing people with eating disorders and for men to idolize steroid abusers, these stereotypes are wrong, but that is because we are viewing these stereotypes as "better". We cannot ignore the fact that there are differences between races, sexes, and religions. I do not think that racial sensitivity means we should try to pretend that everybody is on even grounds, because that's just not the way the world works.

You're incorrect.


Actually, there are a variety of reasons that stereotypes pop up, only one of which is that it's more common in that group then others. For example:

1. It could be a media portrayal thing (ex. serial killers are commonly stereotyped as being smart and well-educated because they're most commonly portrayed that way in the media, the majority aren't).

2. It could be a trate that was observed in at least one, and is considered undesirable, so people push it for self-affirmation and confirmation bias (mexicians are lazy is probably a good example, especially since every ethnic minority except Asians have this, and it clashes with the "model minority" ideal).

3. It doesn't occur in a group, but misunderstanding of their practices makes people believe it anyway. Again, usually negative and pushed to make people feel better about themselves. (ex. catholics worship saints).


I'm sure there are many other reasons, though these are the first that come to mind. With so many other possibilities then it actually being more common among that group, statistical analysis is needed to figure out whether a given group actually more commonly falls under that steriotype.

snip

No offense but what I think the guys is trying to say is that this Stereotype ISN'T accurate. It's actually pretty bizzarre in fact to have a street lady with an ancient deep southern accent wandering around 2077 Detroit?


btw I don't like dresses or fashion! /rasp! ;p

Except that's not ancient deep south, that's modern Ebonics.

Ancient deep south's dialect didn't use cursing (that's the first hint) and the linguistic construction of said curses is unique to Ebonics.

 

[Kuth]

You can't point a trash rat black girl that sounds pretty much spot on(Source: people from the south and my own damn family) and say it's racist. It's not. It would be racist if she was the only black chick in the entire game, but she is far from that.

Your logic makes no sense. It doesn't matter how many black people are in the game, there could be a thousand. None of that changes the fact that this character is ridiculous. You also admit the fact that if she was the only black character then it would be racist. Well, that means it's racist. That means you acknowledge the fact that this character is awful and is laughably racist. Racism surely must be judged on the qualities of the character and the way they are executed by the development team. It isn't judged by the number of people normal black people vs the number of ridiculous black people.

A mix of words on my part but I don't see this as much of being racist. In my intial paragraph I said it would be a good argument if she was the only black woman in the game. Several down I changed the tone with out the intent to from my orginal statment. So to make it clear, If she was alone in the game, the argument would be valid, yet only on the argument.

Even if it was donw to that, I highly doubt I would see it as racist.

And you aren't the one who gets to define what is "racist". No one is. Obviously it isn't racist to you, because you're white.

So you are assuming I am making this some sort of universal foundation of what racisim is instead of it being my opinion? What is up with you? It's my opinion, and you seem to be straight off on that opinion to begin with. Also white?

Calling me white really just destroys much of whatever you are trying to pass on me, yet I will give credit. You did get 50% right. Now if you can properly get the other 50% of my ancestry in the next try, you may have a chance of redemption of not being a bigot. You called me a white person, now I expect you to finish your guessing game, since you seem to have some interest in what a persons skin tone is to have any form of legit argument.

I know some black people who think that this isn't racist. I do think it is racist. Perception of racism is entirely subjective.

Racism: 1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. In order to call it racist, you need to claim that a bunch of Canadians have a thing against black people. Not only that, you need to show that it belittled. Proceed.

Bottom line, the character is ridiculous and is poorly acted.

Mediocore acting, but not much argument in that department.

And yes, in my opinion, the rationale and execution of the character is slightly racist. I'm not offended, I'm amused that they somehow thought it was a good idea to leave such a poorly acted character in the game.

I doubt amused is quite the emotion you are broadcasting. It seems you are taking this character a bit strongly despite you are 'amused' by it.

 

[Agayek]

I'm more bothered with the protagonists voice. What's happened to his throat?

Adam Jensen makes a special point to gargle ball bearings every night before he goes to bed. It really stimulates the vocal chords.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

I live in Kentucky and work at a wal-mart. To say this is an average speech pattern to hear would be an understatement -_- their is no racism ignore the troll and move along.

 

[Lancer873]

snip

No offense but what I think the guys is trying to say is that this Stereotype ISN'T accurate. It's actually pretty bizzarre in fact to have a street lady with an ancient deep southern accent wandering around 2077 Detroit?

Wasn't it 2027? And mkay, I can respect that, but it's not like there couldn't be one in 2027 Detroit. It's not really any more of a stretch than... say... the idea that some religious people would go to violent lengths to stop a company from performing controversial human augmentation. =3

btw I don't like dresses or fashion! /rasp! ;p

Mkay, and nice! Like I said, sexism would be someone saying that it's wrong for you to be like that.

megasnip

Alrighty, I get your point. Still, the point I'm trying to make is that there are some differences between races, sexes, and religions, and that they should be respected, but shouldn't be socially enforced. I apologize for attempting to be a bit blunt in my previous posts, but my ultimate message is one of acceptance, not of division.

 

[Aiberg]

not racist. bad voice acting. also it kills the immersion when a homeless is so helpful. how come she looks and talks so normal and is very good looking?

 

[Hyperactiveman]

Yeh but fuck if i care or anyone else should anyway. A lot of games are doing this and at the same time games that are tackling this are getting scrutinized so I honestly think it's a load of bullshit that we just can't touch because there are too many different cases that wouldn't help anyone justify any point in finding a way of drawing the line between what is and what isn't racism in games.

Having said that I am surprised the devs weren't noticing that they were totally shooting themselves in the foot with this one. I mean it's not just that character... Most bums on the street in the game are black and I can't think of any major or influential characters that are not only intelligent but also not white.

That just spells racism! -_^

Imma gonna hide behind this chest high wall made of magic now.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Heh, opposing black zombies in Africa basically is a pass to ignore everything you say. So if this person is basically angry to get reactions, IE trolling, why are we paying attention?

 

[LHZA]

I didn't like the zombies in RE5, they did offend me just a tad, but this I'm okay with. I think it's mostly laughably bad voice acting more then anything else, but hey, I'm from Canada and so far removed from that kind of accent I kind of find it hard to believe it actually exists. I remember the first time I heard a brooklyn accent. That was cool. The first thing I thought was "Just like in the movies".

 

[Madara XIII]

Where is the racism? Have any of these people ever been to a large city? Is it racist to talk that way? So to all the people who speak differently than you do, THEY are racist??

EDIT: Does this mean Bill Cosby is racist for making Fat Albert?

Nope. It means that idiots will always try and look for racism where it doesn't exist.

So ya know what I say?

"FUCK IT!" I'm done with this racism issue, because no matter how much logic or rationality you speak to them, they'll always find some reason to claim a particular personification of a character is racist.

THANK YOU F*CKING AMERICA!!!

 

[Sicram]

The only thing annoying me is the southern accent. I really, really dislike southern american accent. That character could've been of any race or gender and I'd still cringe at the accent. Don't know why but I borderline hate it.

I guess I don't take any offence seeing as I'm a european or I just happen to be insensitive... although I do react to overplayed stereotypes. And that sentence more or less contradicts me but I haven't actually encountered many (or any) black people with deep southern accent.

Change her voice to something less (in my opinion) mind-grinding and all will be fine, for me at least.

 

[Thespian]

The point here is that only one of the black people in the game has this accent. It is totally possible for one person to have an outrageous, hilarious accent. It is not indicative of their entire race, and Deus Ex doesn't suggest it is.

If that's racist, then I should to argue every portrayal of Irish people in American Media is racist.

But I, frankly, am too drunk to.

Funny, I was so enraged by being misrepresented I was going to go and do the same, but I'm too busy getting into fights outside a pub.

 

[Drakmeire]

I don't think it's racist, it's just a character and people are looking too deep into it. Sad thing is I live near Detroit and MANY people do talk like that whether they be white, black, or anything else.
Hell, put this Lady/Man/I don't know into a game and see the public respond, it's not a stereotype, it's just how the person is it would be racist if EVERY character of African decent was like that in the game but just one makes a character.
<youtube=C0lLsEM-knA>
Yes, this is taken off the local news in MY town. Living near Detroit is weird.

 

[Thespian]

Yeh but fuck if i care or anyone else should anyway. A lot of games are doing this and at the same time games that are tackling this are getting scrutinized so I honestly think it's a load of bullshit that we just can't touch because there are too many different cases that wouldn't help anyone justify any point in finding a way of drawing the line between what is and what isn't racism in games.

Having said that I am surprised the devs weren't noticing that they were totally shooting themselves in the foot with this one. I mean it's not just that character... Most bums on the street in the game are black and I can't think of any major or influential characters that are not only intelligent but also not white.

That just spells racism! -_^

Imma gonna hide behind this chest high wall made of magic now.

Really? I honestly... Hang on.
*smashes chest high wall*
I honestly never noticed any more bums being black than white, and as for influential characters... I'm not too far in, but Van Bruggen seemed fairly important to the plot. It sure couldn't have continued if he wasn't

Spoiler

Intelligent enough to keep security footage of Zhao as an insurance policy.

 

[Superior Mind]

I don't know why that's any more offensive than the portrayal of Zeke Sanders or the Chinese traders in that game. Narcisse seems to me like the kind of guy who'd object so someone over-emphasising an accent or using ethnic coloquialisms. I'll remember not to say "bro" or "chur" around him.

 

[Daniel Beckeman]

When is the last time a GERMAN was in a name and NOT a nazi? Hmmmm?

Hmmn... 2000?

What about this one?

On topic, i don't really think there's much offensive about this, i see the chinese characters as more racist even.

Why would you get upset over a game.

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

<youtube=C0lLsEM-knA>
Yes, this is taken off the local news in MY town. Living near Detroit is weird.

I laughed...I laughed a lot at that. Good god...

Look, at this point people just pick and choose where they want their racism to be. Everything is racist to somebody, especially in this god forsaken land we call America. I say fuck it all and we start making games just like the Boondocks (the animated cartoon/former comic strip) and just load a game to the brim with racism. If they want to nitpick everything and call it racist, we'll give them more racism then they can handle.

 

[peruvianskys]

People are acting like the complaint is that the character speaks like a black person but that's really not why anyone is complaining. The problem is that the character speaks a dialect that is essentially shorthand for "stupid negro." Zeke speaks in understandable ethnic colloquialisms while the Chinese characters speak like normal Chinese people; the character in question, however, speaks in a certain way that most Americans associate not with regional/cultural African American dialect but with the traditional stupid black person stock character. If there had been only one homeless character with substantial dialogue and it had been a clearly gay man who spoke with a ridiculous lisp, or a Chinese woman who spoke like Charlie Chan, then people would complain about that too. When you have a piece of media with very few minorities, and one of those characters happens to sound like a poorly-voiced minstrel show dropout for no particular reason, you can't be surprised when people complain. Is this vicious KKK racism on Square Enix's part? Of course not! But it certainly is a continuation of the utilization of the "stupid poor black woman" character that has no place in any work of fiction, video game or not.

How would you feel if you played a video game where almost every character was a woman, and the one man you encounter was a mouth-breathing rapist? Or if everyone was straight, and the one gay character was an effeminate queer? The fact is, the character people are upset about was not even remotely believable and instead relied on a clearly racist stock persona - no one in arguing that everyone at Square Enix hates black people, they're just saying that we've moved past a time where "dumb *insert race*" is an acceptable way to define a character.