Square Enix Responds to "Racist" Deus Ex Character

[twaddle]

on on one hand it's not that racist but then again square enix have been pushing racism boundary for a while when it comes to their black characters and can't seem to get out of the 70's when it comes to them and has them constantly in sort of a semi comic relief setting. Can you see where were coming from. I wonder if they can allow a black character to be portrayed as normal person and still contribute significantly to the plot one day....

 

[Heroic One]

Game takes place in Detroit, and there's only like six black people.
lol okay

 

[MovieBob]

This is "Resident Evil 5" all over again, and it's the same basic problem: What you are looking at in the video IS an ethnic caricature, and a fairly specific one - a 'minstrel' archetype of the late-19th/early-20th Century. They almost-certainly didn't "intend" the association, but put THAT voice in a black character - with bonus points for making her a 'street person' - and that's what you get. "Author's intent" can only excuse so much.

Now, that doesn't make the game or it's developers "racist"... but it makes them look pretty careless: How did NOBODY at any point in development 'catch' this before it went into pressing? Granted, thus far every piece of voice-acting I've heard from this game has been uniformly horrible - like, late-1990s hastily-translated Japanese arcade game horrible - But the the sheer tone-deafness of this instance boggles the mind.

 

[Parnage]

Black people in a game? Must be racist!

Southern accent?! Of course it must be racist!

God I wish I was so simple minded as to think in that manner. It'd make me reading this awhole lot less enraging. It's not racist. People are just easily offended. Simple as that.

 

[SinisterDeath]

So, its racist, having a character that talks that way.
And its not if you have 'white trash' npcs? or any other chracter who just happens to portray a 'stereotype'? What about all the asian doctors? Is that racist?

If they had a character in the game that is actually playing a racist character, Is it racist of them for adding that charcter in the game? Should every character be Politically correct? Talk Politically correct?
Should all books, movies, tv, games have no characters you aren't meant to dislike becuase they should all be politically correct?

 

[The Youth Counselor]

The first person who broke this story was our very own Jim Sterling, and everyone on Destructoid agreed with him then. But the Escapist shifts all the focus on Evan Narcisse and now all the commentators call him "an easily offended black man."

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Is it impossible for a person to sound like that? No? Then how is it racist? If an ACTUAL black person naturally talked like that would that make them a racist caricature?

Have I really been talking in only questions for this whole post?

Not anymore.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Game takes place in Detroit, and there's only like six black people.
lol okay

Erm there are tons of black people...most of random NPC's you see when walking about are black I noticed.

Spoiler: Hidden for possile spoilers

The very pretty undercover cover cop you help is black, Most of the Gang members on both sides are black, The professional couple you save fron the hostage situation are black. The arms dealer is black. Your janitor is black...

The list goes on.

Like I said earlier the character offended me when I came across it but than I realised I don't really know anyone from America so I'm not really in a position to judge what is correct. Mostly everyone who doesn't work at the corporation buildings are down on their luck in that first area so she fits in enough.

I don't know why they chose that accent I think it is a southern one? Seems a bit of an odd choice if anything. Perhaps if they had changed that it would have been a bit less dodgy.

 

[Lancer873]

*sigh* Let's get one thing clear, folks.

If there is anything I would love to get clear, it would be the fact that your definition of racism is not law, and means next to nothing. You can't come in here and act like you wrote the text book on racism. It's an incredibly complex thing and everyone's definition is different. Just because someone has a different definition to you doesn't give you the right to bring in the old *siiiigh*s.

Saying that women tend to like dresses, that's not sexist.

So it's not racist if I say black people tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded?

I think it is.

Well for starters, black people do not tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded, and secondly, that actually constitutes something offensive, and, as I mentioned later in that post, would make it clear that you hold blacks to be an "inferior" race. The fact that a significant amount of females tend to get an enjoyment out of fashion-based subjects that most men do not understand is not offensive, and is actually true. What I'm saying is that, statistically speaking, many stereotypes exist because they hold some semblance of truth. It's not wrong to acknowledge that there are differences between the majority of one group, and the majority of another group. It's wrong to hold this as proof that the other group is "inferior" in some way to the other, or to believe that there are no exceptions to the statistic. Let's put it this way: If I say "women have nipples that are larger than men's," am I being sexist? No, because this is true. The extra X chromosome that women have tends to do that. If I say that "Men, on average, are stronger, in terms of upper-body strength, than women," am I being sexist? Most people would think I am, but statistically and scientifically speaking, this is true. Testosterone increases muscle buildup, especially in the upper-body. It would be sexist to believe that it is impossible for a woman to be stronger than me (most women are probably actually stronger than me in terms of upper-body strength. I'm not very strong), or to claim this somehow makes a man who is weaker than a woman "inferior" to other men.

Now, there may be some stereotypes that are being enforced in a sort of way in today's society. I, too, realize that it's sick for women to be idolizing people with eating disorders and for men to idolize steroid abusers, these stereotypes are wrong, but that is because we are viewing these stereotypes as "better". We cannot ignore the fact that there are differences between races, sexes, and religions. I do not think that racial sensitivity means we should try to pretend that everybody is on even grounds, because that's just not the way the world works.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

No offense but what I think the guys is trying to say is that this Stereotype ISN'T accurate. It's actually pretty bizzarre in fact to have a street lady with an ancient deep southern accent wandering around 2077 Detroit?


btw I don't like dresses or fashion! /rasp! ;p

 

[AdumbroDeus]

Black people in a game? Must be racist!

Southern accent?! Of course it must be racist!

God I wish I was so simple minded as to think in that manner. It'd make me reading this awhole lot less enraging. It's not racist. People are just easily offended. Simple as that.

Errrr

That's not a southern accent... at all.


It bears some resemblence to a southern accent but it's actually mostly regulated to urban centers.

*sigh* Let's get one thing clear, folks.

If there is anything I would love to get clear, it would be the fact that your definition of racism is not law, and means next to nothing. You can't come in here and act like you wrote the text book on racism. It's an incredibly complex thing and everyone's definition is different. Just because someone has a different definition to you doesn't give you the right to bring in the old *siiiigh*s.

Saying that women tend to like dresses, that's not sexist.

So it's not racist if I say black people tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded?

I think it is.

Well for starters, black people do not tend to be illiterate and borderline retarded, and secondly, that actually constitutes something offensive, and, as I mentioned later in that post, would make it clear that you hold blacks to be an "inferior" race. The fact that a significant amount of females tend to get an enjoyment out of fashion-based subjects that most men do not understand is not offensive, and is actually true. What I'm saying is that, statistically speaking, many stereotypes exist because they hold some semblance of truth. It's not wrong to acknowledge that there are differences between the majority of one group, and the majority of another group. It's wrong to hold this as proof that the other group is "inferior" in some way to the other, or to believe that there are no exceptions to the statistic. Let's put it this way: If I say "women have nipples that are larger than men's," am I being sexist? No, because this is true. The extra X chromosome that women have tends to do that. If I say that "Men, on average, are stronger, in terms of upper-body strength, than women," am I being sexist? Most people would think I am, but statistically and scientifically speaking, this is true. Testosterone increases muscle buildup, especially in the upper-body. It would be sexist to believe that it is impossible for a woman to be stronger than me (most women are probably actually stronger than me in terms of upper-body strength. I'm not very strong), or to claim this somehow makes a man who is weaker than a woman "inferior" to other men.

Now, there may be some stereotypes that are being enforced in a sort of way in today's society. I, too, realize that it's sick for women to be idolizing people with eating disorders and for men to idolize steroid abusers, these stereotypes are wrong, but that is because we are viewing these stereotypes as "better". We cannot ignore the fact that there are differences between races, sexes, and religions. I do not think that racial sensitivity means we should try to pretend that everybody is on even grounds, because that's just not the way the world works.

You're incorrect.


Actually, there are a variety of reasons that stereotypes pop up, only one of which is that it's more common in that group then others. For example:

1. It could be a media portrayal thing (ex. serial killers are commonly stereotyped as being smart and well-educated because they're most commonly portrayed that way in the media, the majority aren't).

2. It could be a trate that was observed in at least one, and is considered undesirable, so people push it for self-affirmation and confirmation bias (mexicians are lazy is probably a good example, especially since every ethnic minority except Asians have this, and it clashes with the "model minority" ideal).

3. It doesn't occur in a group, but misunderstanding of their practices makes people believe it anyway. Again, usually negative and pushed to make people feel better about themselves. (ex. catholics worship saints).


I'm sure there are many other reasons, though these are the first that come to mind. With so many other possibilities then it actually being more common among that group, statistical analysis is needed to figure out whether a given group actually more commonly falls under that steriotype.

snip

No offense but what I think the guys is trying to say is that this Stereotype ISN'T accurate. It's actually pretty bizzarre in fact to have a street lady with an ancient deep southern accent wandering around 2077 Detroit?


btw I don't like dresses or fashion! /rasp! ;p

Except that's not ancient deep south, that's modern Ebonics.

Ancient deep south's dialect didn't use cursing (that's the first hint) and the linguistic construction of said curses is unique to Ebonics.

 

[Kuth]

You can't point a trash rat black girl that sounds pretty much spot on(Source: people from the south and my own damn family) and say it's racist. It's not. It would be racist if she was the only black chick in the entire game, but she is far from that.

Your logic makes no sense. It doesn't matter how many black people are in the game, there could be a thousand. None of that changes the fact that this character is ridiculous. You also admit the fact that if she was the only black character then it would be racist. Well, that means it's racist. That means you acknowledge the fact that this character is awful and is laughably racist. Racism surely must be judged on the qualities of the character and the way they are executed by the development team. It isn't judged by the number of people normal black people vs the number of ridiculous black people.

A mix of words on my part but I don't see this as much of being racist. In my intial paragraph I said it would be a good argument if she was the only black woman in the game. Several down I changed the tone with out the intent to from my orginal statment. So to make it clear, If she was alone in the game, the argument would be valid, yet only on the argument.

Even if it was donw to that, I highly doubt I would see it as racist.

And you aren't the one who gets to define what is "racist". No one is. Obviously it isn't racist to you, because you're white.

So you are assuming I am making this some sort of universal foundation of what racisim is instead of it being my opinion? What is up with you? It's my opinion, and you seem to be straight off on that opinion to begin with. Also white?

Calling me white really just destroys much of whatever you are trying to pass on me, yet I will give credit. You did get 50% right. Now if you can properly get the other 50% of my ancestry in the next try, you may have a chance of redemption of not being a bigot. You called me a white person, now I expect you to finish your guessing game, since you seem to have some interest in what a persons skin tone is to have any form of legit argument.

I know some black people who think that this isn't racist. I do think it is racist. Perception of racism is entirely subjective.

Racism: 1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. In order to call it racist, you need to claim that a bunch of Canadians have a thing against black people. Not only that, you need to show that it belittled. Proceed.

Bottom line, the character is ridiculous and is poorly acted.

Mediocore acting, but not much argument in that department.

And yes, in my opinion, the rationale and execution of the character is slightly racist. I'm not offended, I'm amused that they somehow thought it was a good idea to leave such a poorly acted character in the game.

I doubt amused is quite the emotion you are broadcasting. It seems you are taking this character a bit strongly despite you are 'amused' by it.

 

[Agayek]

I'm more bothered with the protagonists voice. What's happened to his throat?

Adam Jensen makes a special point to gargle ball bearings every night before he goes to bed. It really stimulates the vocal chords.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

I live in Kentucky and work at a wal-mart. To say this is an average speech pattern to hear would be an understatement -_- their is no racism ignore the troll and move along.

 

[Lancer873]

snip

No offense but what I think the guys is trying to say is that this Stereotype ISN'T accurate. It's actually pretty bizzarre in fact to have a street lady with an ancient deep southern accent wandering around 2077 Detroit?

Wasn't it 2027? And mkay, I can respect that, but it's not like there couldn't be one in 2027 Detroit. It's not really any more of a stretch than... say... the idea that some religious people would go to violent lengths to stop a company from performing controversial human augmentation. =3

btw I don't like dresses or fashion! /rasp! ;p

Mkay, and nice! Like I said, sexism would be someone saying that it's wrong for you to be like that.

megasnip

Alrighty, I get your point. Still, the point I'm trying to make is that there are some differences between races, sexes, and religions, and that they should be respected, but shouldn't be socially enforced. I apologize for attempting to be a bit blunt in my previous posts, but my ultimate message is one of acceptance, not of division.

 

[Aiberg]

not racist. bad voice acting. also it kills the immersion when a homeless is so helpful. how come she looks and talks so normal and is very good looking?

 

[Hyperactiveman]

Yeh but fuck if i care or anyone else should anyway. A lot of games are doing this and at the same time games that are tackling this are getting scrutinized so I honestly think it's a load of bullshit that we just can't touch because there are too many different cases that wouldn't help anyone justify any point in finding a way of drawing the line between what is and what isn't racism in games.

Having said that I am surprised the devs weren't noticing that they were totally shooting themselves in the foot with this one. I mean it's not just that character... Most bums on the street in the game are black and I can't think of any major or influential characters that are not only intelligent but also not white.

That just spells racism! -_^

Imma gonna hide behind this chest high wall made of magic now.