Square Enix Uninterested in "Sexy Nun"-Style Controversy

[Nurb]

Best way a publisher can react to this sort of thing? Just - fucking - ignore it! Seriously, it's the attention that fuels these people.
Imagine this going down:
-Your trailer is highly offensive!
>Why?
-...Why?... Because... Religious connotations, and sexual themes, and violence all at the same time!
>So?

Seriously, some people just want something to be offended about, and words like "why?" and "so?" are like kryptonite to them.

How about: Because it's dumb and needlessly provocative?

If we didn't do anything that was dumb or provocative there wouldn't be a video game industry.

If they made a cheep thrill to draw attention to their game they have no right to complain when people see through it.

I'm complaining that you don't have a right to complain about their complaining over people complaining.

I think you're the one that likes complaining.

I'm filing a complaint.

 

[Something Amyss]

Lets be honest here.

If it was a female assassin doing battle with a bunch of guys disguised as priests, no one would have batted an eye.

Would the priests have stripped down before firing upon the assassin? Because I kind of doubt it. That's actually part of the issue right there: false equivalence.

 

[Something Amyss]

I've seen nuns portrayed worse in anime from the 80's and 90's and no one gave a two rats and a shit about it then. Why are we suddenly shocked over it now? People need to chill and find their funny bone again.

Well yeah, I'm sure everyone saw that same anime in question.

I mean, one commonality to the complaints here is that they come from a video game site. Regarding video games.

And I mean, wow, more outrage in the age of the internet than in the 80s? What are the odds?

 

[Kargathia]

What I find disturbing, however, is the notion that violence against women is to be accepted as taboo without any regard to circumstances. Yes, the "sexy nun" thing is over-the-top, and it should have received a second glance if they were genuinely uninterested in courting controversy. But amidst all the various market pressures and design issues, I'm really not at all sure that "violence against women is a never-ever" is the kind of line writers should be saddled with. And I don't really think the interviewee's implication that showing violence against women, specifically, was the goal (or even a goal) of the trailer is a claim that really stands up to scrutiny, either.

As far as I'm aware their previous stance has always been that there were no female targets, but that they weren't going to artificially keep you from inflicting violence on the female NPC's. A distinction which I would say is a good thing. It is certainly feasible that a woman climbs the rungs of nasty and powerful far enough to warrant somebody paying a substantial sum for her death, but would it add anything meaningful to the game? There certainly would be a host of reasons why it is a bad idea.

As to the implication that the trailer's goal was to show or promote violence against women: no. Just no.
Freudian-style subconscious motive psychology is already dodgy when propagated by a qualified psychologist, but coming from the mouth of a layman it should not be taken seriously.
Until somebody hands me an in-depth psych evaluation of IO's creative team and process that conclusively states that this disaster of a trailer was the result of barely-hidden mysogynistic tendencies - or possible childhood abuse - I am going to stick with the obvious explanation: they tried to combine the magic elements of sex and violence with their own weird sense of humour, and failed miserably.

 

[Baresark]

This whole sordid affair was stupid. Anyone who was offended by the fake violence visited upon the fake over sexualized stripper nuns are just looking for a fight. I don't think the ad was effective, but I didn't find it offensive in the least, and I do find the concept of real women getting beaten by real men very offensive. It was a work of fiction that people can argue till the end of days about it being some sort of chauvinistic power fantasy, but it ultimately does not matter. The developer is making a huge mistake by visiting this subject again and it should just be ignored, like all things one does not agree with that appears in the media.

It's good to remember that the story does not have autonomous will - everything scripted that happens, happens because the writer says so. These nuns might have violence visited on them because they are the antagonists in a violent game, but the game's devs are still responsible for making them the antagonists, and consequently having them be the subject of lethal violence.

With that type of rationalizing and the extent of your will to find fault with this situation is amazing. It being a fictional work, the author has a right to lay it out as he or she pleases. And as a work of fiction, it should not be treated as if a real person beat the crap out of a bunch of real life fake nuns that were dressed like strippers. This whole argument is akin to the idea of thought police or regulation of creative works because some people find it offensive. The truth is, I find it hard to believe that trailer could even evoke such extreme levels of reflection and thought about it. Someone needs a hobby.

 

[Callate]

It is certainly feasible that a woman climbs the rungs of nasty and powerful far enough to warrant somebody paying a substantial sum for her death, but would it add anything meaningful to the game? There certainly would be a host of reasons why it is a bad idea.

But there might be a similar host of reasons why it was a considered and meaningful choice, a possibility I wouldn't want to pre-emptively exclude.

Beyond than that, I think we're largely in agreement (Short version: sexy nun trailer stupid, but not intentionally geared towards [violence/promotion of violence] towards women.)

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Calling it an excuse for violence against women is ridiculous. It's a Hitman game, people are going to get shot.

Developers can put whatever the hell they want in their game/trailer.

 

[Kargathia]

It's good to remember that the story does not have autonomous will - everything scripted that happens, happens because the writer says so. These nuns might have violence visited on them because they are the antagonists in a violent game, but the game's devs are still responsible for making them the antagonists, and consequently having them be the subject of lethal violence.

With that type of rationalizing and the extent of your will to find fault with this situation is amazing. It being a fictional work, the author has a right to lay it out as he or she pleases. And as a work of fiction, it should not be treated as if a real person beat the crap out of a bunch of real life fake nuns that were dressed like strippers. This whole argument is akin to the idea of thought police or regulation of creative works because some people find it offensive. The truth is, I find it hard to believe that trailer could even evoke such extreme levels of reflection and thought about it. Someone needs a hobby.

You are both taking my comments out of context, and projecting explanations I did not even hint at.
The original post was a reminder to somebody that whether or not a chain of events makes sense in the context of the work, the writer is still the one responsible for those exact events - not the characters.
This has nothing to do whatsoever with any notion that writing crazy stuff is in any way comparable with physically enacting said crazy stuff.

Nor would I describe these basic observations about the nature of creative works to be "extreme levels of reflection and thought". At least, not unless I suddenly was gifted with the ability to excercise extreme levels of reflection during the course of speedreading my way through a single-page thread.

It is certainly feasible that a woman climbs the rungs of nasty and powerful far enough to warrant somebody paying a substantial sum for her death, but would it add anything meaningful to the game? There certainly would be a host of reasons why it is a bad idea.

But there might be a similar host of reasons why it was a considered and meaningful choice, a possibility I wouldn't want to pre-emptively exclude.

Beyond than that, I think we're largely in agreement (Short version: sexy nun trailer stupid, but not intentionally geared towards [violence/promotion of violence] towards women.)

It certainly could add to a story, but would that be enough to offset the certainty of the internet pouncing at any perceived lack of sensitivity handling it?

Otherwise: yea, you summed it up about right.

 

[Baresark]

You are both taking my comments out of context, and projecting explanations I did not even hint at.
The original post was a reminder to somebody that whether or not a chain of events makes sense in the context of the work, the writer is still the one responsible for those exact events - not the characters.
This has nothing to do whatsoever with any notion that writing crazy stuff is in any way comparable with physically enacting said crazy stuff.

Nor would I describe these basic observations about the nature of creative works to be "extreme levels of reflection and thought". At least, not unless I suddenly was gifted with the ability to excercise extreme levels of reflection during the course of speedreading my way through a single-page thread.

That's fair. I am just ready (too ready apparently) to fend off people who just attack it when the reality is that the fictional work this article is about is not of any substance. I apologize, I should not have jumped to conclusions. I guess I just miss the days that when people saw something they didn't like and it was causing no actual harm to anyone, they just didn't pay attention... If those days ever actually existed.

 

[LordMonty]

stilettos and war could be the next big thing

 

[Kargathia]

I guess I just miss the days that when people saw something they didn't like and it was causing no actual harm to anyone, they just didn't pay attention... If those days ever actually existed.

Oh, that happens. The problem is, that most of the idiotic accusations involve notions of it actually causing harm. "Think of the children!" and all that.

That, and people making a ruckus about the latest fad in corrupting literature tends to be somewhat more noticeable than people shrugging their dislike, and carrying on with their lives.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

Square Enix Uninterested in "Sexy Nun"-Style Controversy

And good on them.

IO Interactive did take a bit of stab at the "educated conversation" route, explaining shortly after the trailer hit that it was aiming for a sort of grindhouse vibe with the trailer and that a lack of context also worked against it.

Grindhouse is the first vibe I got from the trailer too. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.385298-IO-Changed-Hitman-Absolution-Following-Nun-Controversy?page=7#15358700]
But people love drama and that's why it all went the way it did.

 

[Callate]

It certainly could add to a story, but would that be enough to offset the certainty of the internet pouncing at any perceived lack of sensitivity handling it?

I'm of mixed minds. I've generally been of the opinion that people finding something offensive, alone, is not sufficient reason for it not to exist; also that if video games are a medium to be taken seriously, it ought to be able to weather handling things that make some people uncomfortable, especially if there might be an interesting conversation to be had as a result.

But on the other hand, despite the old adage that "there's no such thing as bad press", there definitely is, and I can certainly see why S-E or any other game company as a commercial enterprise would be keen to avoid it. And like many, I get distinctly nervous when games do things that some might label "bad behavior" when they might lead to the entire medium getting tarred with the same brush by the news media- a possibility which, regrettably, still seems quite possible.

On the whole, though, I have to come down in favor of games taking risks if there's the possibility of it leading to more mature and interesting games and people in general recognizing games as a medium that can tell thoughtful and emotion-provoking stories.

 

[MegaManOfNumbers]

Lets be honest here.

If it was a female assassin doing battle with a bunch of guys disguised as priests, no one would have batted an eye.

Yah they would. You left out the part where these priests would be half-naked and strippers.

 

[Spitfire]

There is nothing wrong about nuns with guns in games, just as there is nothing wrong with this:

or this:

If you don't like it you don't have to watch it or buy the product, but get the f§%# over it already and stop complaining.

And if you really don't want ^That kind of attention, don't make this type of trailer. Nobody takes either of those examples seriously and now nobody takes Square Enix seriously either.

You're right. I mean, this whole controversy is so reminiscent of that time when Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino lost all credibility after they released Grindhouse, and it has absolutely nothing to do with videogames being judged by double standards.