Square Enix Uninterested in "Sexy Nun"-Style Controversy
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
I can't believe this stupidity is still going on. To be honest I think this is a dark day for gaming and the forcing of censorship and political correctness. I think it's pathetic not to see Squeenix fighting back, and instead backing down to this and crying "we didn't want this kind of contreversy".
Having seen this entire thing multiple times, and failing to see the big deal, I'll just restate what should be the obvious:
It's bloody heroic fantasy. To say there is something wrong with this is to basically argue that women should be put on a pedestel and pretty much omitted from any kind of action/combat related material. "Women instigating the violence being used as an excuse to show violence against women", well that could pretty much be used as an arguement against women being involved in any kind of fight scene.
To be honest to hear this alongside all the whining about why "action girls" aren't involved in more medium and given the same kind of treatment as guys, is bloody comedy gold. What are we supposed to assume from this? That women should never be the bad guys in these kinds of things? Or is it that we should reinforce the tropes that people complain about where say guys can't fight girls, so in every storyline it should come down to a cat fight between the good girl(s) and the bad girls(s) while the guys duke it out seperatly. Basically Agent 47 should have a female sidekick just in case a female target/opponent comes up.
Let's be honest, if you want to have girls in these kinds of situations, kicking butt with the guys, then you have to accept they are going to get their arses kicked as well. This incidently includes heroic girls, after all the hero getting pwned (sometimes multiple times) and then having to pick themselves up from it, or find other ways of defeating the enemy, is a genere stereotype.
As I've said before, if this bothers you, you probably shouldn't be looking at stuff that involves action/adventure involving women. I'll also say that this "grindhouse" vibe wasn't quite the description I would have given it as much as comic-book like. To be blunt there have been many similar fight scenes over the years with female teams of super villains (or even heroes) getting trashed, sometimes quite violently depending on the rating of the comic.
If Squeenix backs down from this contreversy, or takes it seriously, it's pretty much reinforcing every negative, gender based stereotype that we've been trying to get away from.
As far as the costumes go, and doing kung-fu in heels and/or nun costumes or whatever, understand that this is hardly unheard of in fiction, and dudes dress just as ridiculously, oftentimes wearing even less than the female characters do (the typical barbarian hero comes to mind). To be honest, barring the heels, I'd rather be wearing what those ladies are (leather bodysuits) than what Agent 47 is wearing in a combat/action situation, the reason is quite simple... try sliding accross the pavement in regular clothing (even a suit) it's not fun. Try running through briars chasing someone. I've had cause to do both. I'll also say bikers cover themselves in leather for this reason as well, it's not so much to look "tough" as the fact that it's going to protect the skin if they wind up getting dumped and wind up taking an apshalt slide. The heels might be pushing it, but it IS fantasy, and like most costumes the basic answer is "it looks cool", if we had to make a list of every totally ridiculous thing that served no function or would be a disadvantage worn by a character in fantasy it would be a huge list, also men would probably outnumber the ladies, though admittedl due to there being more male characters at this point. To be honest if your worrying about the practicality of someone's footwear in a campy action scene, your kind of missing the point and it's probably not your genere. If you can't deal with that, wait until some dude shows up with a poisoned spiked ball attached to a ponytail that he whips people with or something like that.... which gets even more ridiculous, but the point of this kind of thing is to kind of put your brain into neutral and flow with it. Of course then again I did just get a kick out of watching "The Man With The Iron Fists" which while not the most insane kung-fu movie I've ever seen, would probably send anyone who complains about this video into seizures from the sheer amount of camp on display.
Having seen this entire thing multiple times, and failing to see the big deal, I'll just restate what should be the obvious:
It's bloody heroic fantasy. To say there is something wrong with this is to basically argue that women should be put on a pedestel and pretty much omitted from any kind of action/combat related material. "Women instigating the violence being used as an excuse to show violence against women", well that could pretty much be used as an arguement against women being involved in any kind of fight scene.
To be honest to hear this alongside all the whining about why "action girls" aren't involved in more medium and given the same kind of treatment as guys, is bloody comedy gold. What are we supposed to assume from this? That women should never be the bad guys in these kinds of things? Or is it that we should reinforce the tropes that people complain about where say guys can't fight girls, so in every storyline it should come down to a cat fight between the good girl(s) and the bad girls(s) while the guys duke it out seperatly. Basically Agent 47 should have a female sidekick just in case a female target/opponent comes up.
Let's be honest, if you want to have girls in these kinds of situations, kicking butt with the guys, then you have to accept they are going to get their arses kicked as well. This incidently includes heroic girls, after all the hero getting pwned (sometimes multiple times) and then having to pick themselves up from it, or find other ways of defeating the enemy, is a genere stereotype.
As I've said before, if this bothers you, you probably shouldn't be looking at stuff that involves action/adventure involving women. I'll also say that this "grindhouse" vibe wasn't quite the description I would have given it as much as comic-book like. To be blunt there have been many similar fight scenes over the years with female teams of super villains (or even heroes) getting trashed, sometimes quite violently depending on the rating of the comic.
If Squeenix backs down from this contreversy, or takes it seriously, it's pretty much reinforcing every negative, gender based stereotype that we've been trying to get away from.
As far as the costumes go, and doing kung-fu in heels and/or nun costumes or whatever, understand that this is hardly unheard of in fiction, and dudes dress just as ridiculously, oftentimes wearing even less than the female characters do (the typical barbarian hero comes to mind). To be honest, barring the heels, I'd rather be wearing what those ladies are (leather bodysuits) than what Agent 47 is wearing in a combat/action situation, the reason is quite simple... try sliding accross the pavement in regular clothing (even a suit) it's not fun. Try running through briars chasing someone. I've had cause to do both. I'll also say bikers cover themselves in leather for this reason as well, it's not so much to look "tough" as the fact that it's going to protect the skin if they wind up getting dumped and wind up taking an apshalt slide. The heels might be pushing it, but it IS fantasy, and like most costumes the basic answer is "it looks cool", if we had to make a list of every totally ridiculous thing that served no function or would be a disadvantage worn by a character in fantasy it would be a huge list, also men would probably outnumber the ladies, though admittedl due to there being more male characters at this point. To be honest if your worrying about the practicality of someone's footwear in a campy action scene, your kind of missing the point and it's probably not your genere. If you can't deal with that, wait until some dude shows up with a poisoned spiked ball attached to a ponytail that he whips people with or something like that.... which gets even more ridiculous, but the point of this kind of thing is to kind of put your brain into neutral and flow with it. Of course then again I did just get a kick out of watching "The Man With The Iron Fists" which while not the most insane kung-fu movie I've ever seen, would probably send anyone who complains about this video into seizures from the sheer amount of camp on display.
So... only men are allowed to be subjected to lethal violence? Or just nuns who AREN'T in clothes YOU deem provocative? Because that's starting to sound a lot like the puritanical bullshit the world could use less of, except you're masquerading it under the guise of "feminismz".Kargathia said:
i don't giving a flying crap about the marketing campaign.
Most games are marketed as not holding your hands having awesome choice and end up being linear with broken AI. So A sexy nun advert means nothing to me.
I got the game and I am more annoyed at the over sensitive AI that can see through your disguise from another room and a few too many linear levels.
It looks like they compensated for their lack of creative larger level design by just ramping up the detection/instinct ratio.
Most games are marketed as not holding your hands having awesome choice and end up being linear with broken AI. So A sexy nun advert means nothing to me.
I got the game and I am more annoyed at the over sensitive AI that can see through your disguise from another room and a few too many linear levels.
It looks like they compensated for their lack of creative larger level design by just ramping up the detection/instinct ratio.
The thing is the female fantasy books etc includes sexual stuff that can be seen as quite violent but at the same time it is consensual violence. This Hitman advert is just a man physically dominating women in an extremely violent and non-consensual way. When domestic violence and non-consensual sexual violence happen everyday (to both men and women) glorifying a man beating and killing sex objects (and don't tell me they aren't) is a really horrible thing to put out as an advertisement.Nurb said:
Also I get the whole wanting be a bald badass but why, especially in this context, are the sexy nuns a requirement?
Oh yeah, because objecting to women wearing fetish wear for no reason given getting beaten and murdered is puritanical and not oh lets say a reasonable response from a mature human being. I don't object to violence at all and them just being woman isn't the issue here it's that both the women and the violence are portrayed in a fetishist manner. Can't you just sit back and objectively view why people might have a problem with that?NotALiberal said:
Lol they interviewed a stripper really?
HEY I HAVE AN IDEA ! Let's remove women from gaming completly! That way no one will complain that women are getting hurt! It's okay to beat up and kill men right? RIGHT?
You know what publishers / developpers should do? Make games , and ignore everyone who complains .
HEY I HAVE AN IDEA ! Let's remove women from gaming completly! That way no one will complain that women are getting hurt! It's okay to beat up and kill men right? RIGHT?
You know what publishers / developpers should do? Make games , and ignore everyone who complains .
And that would be just as sad but in different ways. The thing is when it comes to men and women life experiences can be completely different. When women interact with the vast majority of men they get treated as being lesser than they are, as sex objects or as inferior people. Men can whine about being objectified too whether it be unreasonable depictions in fiction or advertising but that is nothing compared to how women can and are treated on an almost daily basis, the leers, the dismissing of opinions and so on.Moosejaw said:
Look, I'm not trying to force my views on anyone who likes the game or the advert or whatever, I'm just trying to explain why people found it distasteful.
I still don't get it. Is it because it's a man killing women? Well, they attacked him first so he was fair game. Is it because they're wearing fetish outfits? It's a part of the theme that they were going for. If it was a female assassin getting attacked by a group of male assassins in fetish priest outfits, I'd probably find it more funny than offensive.
If you find something offensive, just don't buy it or support it. Vote with your wallet.
If you find something offensive, just don't buy it or support it. Vote with your wallet.
You do realise the "quote" button is at the top of somebody's post? I didn't pose any judgement calls whatsoever on what gender it is ok to inflict lethal violence on, or what dress code victims of said violence should adhere to. Nor did I even remotely hint at any involvement of feminist sentiments. (Nor would I ever spell "feminism" with a "z")NotALiberal said:
That said: there's nothing wrong with any individual aspect of "heavily armed women dressed in provocative latex and stiletto heels underneath nun habits engaging in gun / knife fights with Agent 47" - it is the combination that makes it ridiculously stupid.
/snip/
That said: there's nothing wrong with any individual aspect of "heavily armed women dressed in provocative latex and stiletto heels underneath nun habits engaging in gun / knife fights with Agent 47" - it is the combination that makes it ridiculously stupid.[/quote]
So at this point, as a controversy-minded game designer, I'd find this quote, agree with it wholeheartedly, apologize, and move on... The game would release exactly the same, except the women would then be in sensible shoes....
That said: there's nothing wrong with any individual aspect of "heavily armed women dressed in provocative latex and stiletto heels underneath nun habits engaging in gun / knife fights with Agent 47" - it is the combination that makes it ridiculously stupid.[/quote]
So at this point, as a controversy-minded game designer, I'd find this quote, agree with it wholeheartedly, apologize, and move on... The game would release exactly the same, except the women would then be in sensible shoes....
They are a group of highly trained and deadly assassins sent to kill him, that's why he's fighting them. They both know what they're doing. There's a reason for it. They are equals.Deathninja19 said:
As for what they wear... so what? They wear tight gear that shows off the female figure in a way that's appealing. Female fantasy books/movies get barely dressed and shirtless teenaged boys showing off their bodies... or in the case of the yaoi fangirls, all-out gay porn with romance. Both are fantasy, only different because both genders often don't share the same ideas.
What it all comes down to is that both men and women like fantasy that sometimes tickles their naughty bits, but we get to hear the BS pushed that:
Men's fantasy = bad
Women's fantasy = good
So what if it seems stupidly over the top, that's what the series is. He's a clone of a man trying to create a race of engineered killers in the bowels of a mental hospital and he once killed a morbidly obese target that was hosting a fetish gear party in a meat locker dance club. Oddball violent fiction isn't a place to try and apply real world thinking or morality and people look silly when they do.Kargathia said:
That's irrelevant. The potential for controversy was there, and Grindhouse could have easily been portrayed negatively in the media, regardless of what Rodriguez and Tarantino claimed to want their movies to be known for.DVS BSTrD said:
Looking past Grindhouse, there's really no shortage of movies featuring sexual imagery, and copious amounts of violence and gore, and yet we rarely see any of them sparking major controversies in the media, in the way that games like Hitman: Absolution or Tomb Raider did. Why is it that imagery and subject matter that is perfectly accepted in movies, is such a hot topic when present in videogames?