Squeenix CEO Calls Out Japanese Gamers on Western Bias

[rynocerator]

I think another reason that American gamers take to Japanese games more than the other way around is because many A-gamers, if you will, find the Japanese culture very interesting, myself included. But J-gamers, and generally Japan as a whole, are very happy being in their own land and culture and don't necessarily have a desire to experience the culture of America.

 

[Dectilon]

"Even now, there have been people in Japan using the label youge- (Western games) with a terribly discriminatory meaning," said Wada. "I'd like them to try it once. If they play it once, they'd realize how incorrect that label is."

Allow me to paraphrase: "We just bought Eidos! How would it look if our home market didn't embrace the products of one of our divisions?"

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Maybe Japaneese gamers are used to a little more depth to games rather than simply "Go here kill these people."

Hell, I'm an Aussie and when I saw MW2 I thought "A 6 hour game? Meh."

 

[slopeslider]

Squeenix CEO Calls Out Japanese Gamers on Western Bias



Specifically, Wada has an issue with the Japanese term youge- (洋ゲ&#12540, the word used to refer to titles made in the West as opposed to Japanese-made games, or geimu (ゲーム - yeah, it's just the word "game").
(Via Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5420421/square-enix-president-calls-western-game-label-terribly-discriminatory])

Permalink

It's 'Geemu'.

If I'm remembering my high school Japanese classes, that long E can be written "ei" in Romaji, similar to how the long O can be written "ou." That's mainly because to most Western speakers, they read "ee" like in "Hee-haw" and read "oo" like "Spoon."

Then how would we transcribe "Geimu"? Still use the ei? Now we're conflicting for no reason.
I guess the westerners who watch the 'nehnjuh' show 'nuhrootow' cant pronounce anything in 'japuhkneez"
Also, he wrote Youge correctly. So I think he just made a mistake.
At least write it correctly, even if you cant pronounce for crap. Less everyone start calling America "Uhmerikuh"

It can't be Geemu! Geimu is far more likely {Hard G - ¨º - Hard E - Moo}. but Japanese pronunciation is easier for a French speaking person with a Japanese wife, like me. (THAN IT IS FOR A DIRTY AMERICAN)
nuhrootow??? Nah - roo - toe
ninjutsu - Nin - juts (quick) - u (the last u is barely pronounced)

I'll have you know I am not a dirty american! I will not stand for insults!
The misspellings were intentional. ('NINJA' show 'NARUTO' blahblah 'JAPANESE')
"Geimu" WOULD fit better, but thats not what they say or how it is. From 1st hand experience they say 'geemu'.
There is a difference between ee and ei. One is like 'eeh?', what everyone in the theater said after seeing the end of 'Knowing' and the other like '(g)AY', what the little 10yr olds on halo call each other.
I know how to pronounce the langauge, which is why I can see the error here. However, I am not married to a japanese woman, so we're 1-1. We need a tiebreaker! Shoubu shimashou!

 

[Caligulove]

I think that this all stems from people on both sides not playing enough of the other cultures' games- and understanding what they really are like and really understanding them. Theres too much generalizing on both of our sides. I do agree with the man, though.

Plus, we have people here that are generalizing the whole entirety of western made games and about hype and small changes that dont amount to much and then are forgotten when something new comes around.
--that's inherent to so much of gaming, really. Not to mention you have Nintendo in Japan... who has been a little dry when it comes to new ideas in the past couple of years.. more iterations of established franchise... great. but not new. And SquareEnix does too.
and so do western devs! so lets stop being snobs about something like games that shouldnt be taken so seriously

 

[Witty-Name]

Tiebreaker to the rescue...

You're both right! Romanising japanese isn't an exact science and can be done in different ways depending on the individual. For most native japanese words, written in hiragana, they use the "i" character after an "e" sound to extend that sound (for instance "sensei"). In katakana the practice for extending sounds is to use a dash, meaning that the "e" is carried rather than adding an "i". To be honest in that situation it's pretty tough to call what romanisation you could use, "geimu" and "geemu" both work as would "gému", no matter what though the pronounciation would remain the same.

 

[Artemicion]

Wada expressed frustration with Japanese gamers' resistance to Western titles, in part due to the country's collective "meh" to Modern Warfare 2, which Activision handed off to Square-Enix to publish in the Land of the Rising Sun [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94273-Square-Enix-Launches-Site-Teasing-Modern-Warfare-2]...

...Specifically, Wada has an issue with the Japanese term youge- (洋ゲ&#12540, the word used to refer to titles made in the West as opposed to Japanese-made games, or geimu (ゲーム - yeah, it's just the word "game"). By differentiating between the two, Japanese gamers are essentially saying that Western games aren't actually games, and the Square-Enix boss doesn't like it...

..."Even now, there have been people in Japan using the label youge- (Western games) with a terribly discriminatory meaning," said Wada. "I'd like them to try it once. If they play it once, they'd realize how incorrect that label is."...

Had to register and post for this.

I think part of (most of) the issue simply lies in our cultural differences. If you look at Japanese-style games in comparison to Western games, the difference is as wide as the ocean. Many of the most popular Western games have some form or another of gritty warfare and combat, usually trapped in an overhanging atmosphere of - at the very least - moderate realism. Our games have connections to real events, usually modern, that glorify warfare, weaponry and solid, relate-able characters.

(I don't play much anything past Final Fantasy so I could be entirely wrong here) Many Japanese games have a lot less warfare flavoring, basing most of their characters, settings, plot, ect. on more fantasy-type scenarios. You know, swords that shoot lightning or whatever, amazing, uncanny acrobatics and some otherwise unrealistic scenarios.

I'm going to make a connection using Advent Children.
You remember how, during the scene where Tifa fights the teenage Sephiroth-whatever (I didn't really pay attention), she gets flung against a wall, moves superquickly and is able to plant her feet against it, and suddenly she's still okay. But there's nothing special about her, physically. She's just a normal person. (I could be wrong about this, I never beat VII because I was bored to tears. Crisis Core was fun, though.)
If it was an American film, it (undoubtedly) would have been far more tame.

"I want the girl..."
"You can die now." Tifa unholsters a handgun and kills the androgynous bad guy. Game over.

I guess that wouldn't be much of a movie. But I'd appreciate it more because at least then I'd be able to connect with the characters.

Tifa is a normal person who needs a gun to keep her safe. Punching people isn't nearly as powerful as it seems.
The squishy-looking bad guy is squishy and dies from bullets. I can connect with both scenarios.

Actually, this could fold out into a certain... lack of creativity on Japan's side. Western culture is able to make enthralling videogames with great storylines while still being realistic - like Modern Warfare 2(I guess. I didn't think it was all that great. But most people like it. So) and Halo - Halo is futuristic and takes place on different planets, but it's not like the humans and covenant are superpowered (Except the MC, and it's for a very good reason - his armor. Outside the armor, he's just as killable.) They're still squishy and die from bullets. Both of these examples are full of creativity and imagination without deviating from the realistic formula. There's no sort of weird gimmicks about it.

Counterexample: Metal Gear Solid 4 (or, if you prefer, MGS in general) MGS is a series of realistic games about sneaking past enemies and not dying. It is a prime example of good realistic gameplay... except for the Metal Gears. That's the little unrealistic twist that I just can't seem to swollow without a tall glass of cream soda and a dallop of cool whip.
REX was alright. A giant tank with legs. Armored Core! But everything afterwards just got more and more unbelievable. Also, they are pretty much impervious to bullets but a Cyborg Ninja with a Katana can kill off multiple Metal Gears with ease!

Well that's certainly one way to spit all over the Tactical Espionage Action. Throwing in giant mechanized robots that moo.

I'm sure there's lots and lots of exceptions to this, but it definitely seems like this is pretty regular for Japanese games.

 

[baseracer]

Japan was xenophobic back in the day. I think at least some of that still retains today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_of_Japan

 

[pneuma08]

Squeenix CEO Calls Out Japanese Gamers on Western Bias



Specifically, Wada has an issue with the Japanese term youge- (洋ゲ&#12540, the word used to refer to titles made in the West as opposed to Japanese-made games, or geimu (ゲーム - yeah, it's just the word "game").
(Via Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5420421/square-enix-president-calls-western-game-label-terribly-discriminatory])

Permalink

It's 'Geemu'.

Or

gēmu.

The "ei" and "ou" constructs are actually Japanese in origin (long vowels), and simply take a different form in katakana (the extension character "-", which does not exist in hiragana, instead replacing the second vowel). Thus Mr. Funk's romanization is no less proper or accurate than your own (and furthermore it is less annoying and difficult to read). It really depends on what method of romanization is use.

Other romanizations (no less proper but of varying degrees of accuracy and readability):

gêmu, ge-mu, gemu, g^emu

See: http://everything2.com/title/long+vowels+in+Japanese

 

[Low Key]

I find it funny Japanese gamers don't like western games, yet they play games developed with western character models (ex: blond, red, brown hair/multicolored iris/caucasian).

But anyways, Japanese gamers can play anything they want. I could care less if games made in America, or Europe, or Canada, etc. sell in Japan. From what I understand, their gaming is more or less a family affair. Gaming here in America is something done alone or with a friend, not family memebers, unless it's like a brother or sister.

 

[spartan773]

Not to sound racist, but ya, I've heard a lot of people say that Japan is xenophobic.
I can point to Mario and Jynx as proof...

Now i wouldn't say that's racist
but i do have to kind of agree with you there.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

You should not argue with Imperial Hot Yoichi Wada.

I understand what he's saying, but at the same time, I also understand the cultural differences that make a lot of American fare perhaps less than palatable to Japanese gamers. Our fixation with World War II, our reluctance to look beyond Tolkein for fantasy, our overuse of gunmetal and cement as colors in games....

Let's take a look at two characters- Cloud Strife and Marcus Fenix. Cloud is an emotionally damaged supersoldier whose body is much more powerful than it looks, but whose performance suffers until his friends help him overcome his mental blocks and unleash his true potential. Marcus is a grizzled, cynical Space Marine whose abilities don't change, but whose determination strengthens with every successive challenge he overcomes. You can see here how American and Japanese character development vary quite a bit- and I haven't even touched on the worlds these characters occupy, or the others who travel with them.

I'm going to agree with others that it'll more likely be simpler, less character-driven games like World of Goo and Little Big Planet that'll gain mainstream acceptance in Japan. Until opening up to other cultures becomes a really big deal in the Land of the Rising Sun, that'll have to do.

 

[Artemicion]

World of Goo and Little Big Planet

I'd like to also take the time to point out that you mentioned two very distinct games, that stand out against the rest of the Western gaming sector.

Both of these games light in tone and could be described as cute. This is also a massive trend in Japan (read: kawaii) and is certainly part of the reason big, tough Western games have a harder time in Japan.

 

[slopeslider]

Squeenix CEO Calls Out Japanese Gamers on Western Bias



Specifically, Wada has an issue with the Japanese term youge- (洋ゲ&#12540, the word used to refer to titles made in the West as opposed to Japanese-made games, or geimu (ゲーム - yeah, it's just the word "game").
(Via Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5420421/square-enix-president-calls-western-game-label-terribly-discriminatory])

Permalink

It's 'Geemu'.

Or

gēmu.

The "ei" and "ou" constructs are actually Japanese in origin (long vowels), and simply take a different form in katakana (the extension character "-", which does not exist in hiragana, instead replacing the second vowel). Thus Mr. Funk's romanization is no less proper or accurate than your own (and furthermore it is less annoying and difficult to read). It really depends on what method of romanization is use.

Other romanizations (no less proper but of varying degrees of accuracy and readability):

gêmu, ge-mu, gemu, g^emu

See: http://everything2.com/title/long+vowels+in+Japanese

I dont see any I's in there.
So "Ge - mu" is geimu and "Ge i mu" is, well also geimu. Contradiction.
I use the system where
a=a, e=e, i=i, o=o, and u=u. So ee=ee and not ei bacause when you really do have a japanese 'ei' your translations conflict.
If we started spelling japanese the way it sounded we'd have a bunch of conflicts between Kensuke and Kehnskeiy (bekus dats hao yuu pronowns it)
Nihongo=/=kneehohngow

 

[jamesworkshop]

comparing the west to the japanesse market is like comparing a fly to an elephant pratically anything can find an audience in the west, Europe alone has about one-ninth of the worlds population

 

[pneuma08]

So "Ge - mu" is geimu and "Ge i mu" is, well also geimu. Contradiction.

That's not a contradiction, it's just an ambiguity. The English language (and the Japanese language, too) is full of constructs and phrases that are ambiguous, for instance puns exist solely to exploit ambiguity in language for humor. Furthermore, spoken Japanese especially relies greatly on an implied subject, which is many times less clear than anything we're discussing here.

The point being, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of ambiguity. And it's a tradeoff in this case - less ambiguous transcription results in text that is more obnoxious to read. It's possible to have less ambiguity or more readability, but impossible to have both.

(Side note: it's not even possible to eliminate all ambiguity in transcribing the text from Japanese to English. As an example, "hashi" both means "chopsticks" and "bridge" depending on whether an accent is placed on the first syllable or the second. The Japanese reading is clear because kanji are used (箸 and 橋, respectively). This is not even touching on true homonyms, either.)

I use the system where
a=a, e=e, i=i, o=o, and u=u. So ee=ee and not ei bacause when you really do have a japanese 'ei' your translations conflict.
If we started spelling japanese the way it sounded we'd have a bunch of conflicts between Kensuke and Kehnskeiy (bekus dats hao yuu pronowns it)
Nihongo=/=kneehohngow

Firstly, there's some point drift here. The phonetic spellings is a strawman argument. No one is advocating spelling "ni" as "knee"; as I've said the long e is a Japanese convention - "ei" in hiragana (え&#12356 and "e-" in katakana (エ&#65392 (and of course Japanese is written is syllabic pairs so the characters may vary depending on the consonant). In romaji, "e-" and some of its counterparts ("ee", "^e")look weird to native English readers so it's transcribed as "ei". You can transcribe it any way you choose, but that doesn't make any of the other options within acceptable standards any less correct.

Secondly, how do you spell "Tokyo"? In Japanese, all the vowels in that word are long. You're suggesting we transcribe that word to "Tookyoo".

Of course there's going to be some variance in transcription one way or another, as the nature of transcription is trying to fit a round peg (i.e. Japanese words) into a square hole (i.e. English characters). Where the two diverge, something's gotta give, and there's different ways to accomplish this. Meaning, there is no One True Way resolve disputes between the languages.

Japanese is not an ancient, mystical language of great power that needs to be preserved as closely to its natural form as possible. It is merely a language, a set of characters and words that abstract concepts to share understanding, no more important than English is.

 

[TOGSolid]

After looking at that magazine's top ten list, I think it's pretty safe to say that the radiation from those nukes is still fucking with them. Do we really care what the Japanese think of western games, though? It's not like we really have to worry about us marketing to them.

I find it funny Japanese gamers don't like western games, yet they play games developed with western character models (ex: blond, red, brown hair/multicolored iris/caucasian).

See: Ganguro for the ultimate in hilarity.

 

[Muffinthraka]

maybe I'm just defensive cos I also live on an island, and although Britain did go out and conquer the map it was only after everyone else had invaded us.

Wasn't Britain built by invasion? As in, Britain is the child of the collective invaders, meaning you came after the invasion. I could be wrong, hence the question at the beginning.

That was the point I was trying to make, that Britain was invaded constantly before we invaded back. You are right, Britain is made up of the desendants of everyone who invaded us (Vikings, Romans, Saxons, the Scots) and the ones that survived.