oh no i wasn't directing that at youLono Shrugged said:
im just saying if the people who made the movie tried to stick to the description of the characters, and they had a black mary jane with red hair...
that just isn't right looking (imo)
Stan Lee on "Black Spider-Man"
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
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im just saying if the people who made the movie tried to stick to the description of the characters, and they had a black mary jane with red hair...
that just isn't right looking (imo)
This would be the kind of things that would just be awesome to watch themselves develop. Mostly because there's bound to be a total firestorm across the news and Internet at first, and then we wait for the results. Personally, I agree with Stan. People might get confused, so establishing a black Spider Man as part of a spinoff or alternate take on the story would be the way to go.
Now that this has been brought up, it's gonna be racist whatever they do? Cast a black actor? Racist because they "just gave him the part". Cast a white actor? Racist because a white actor got the role and "things need to change".
Personally, I'd prefer it if he was a white character. Just because that's the way he is. Nerdy white kid becomes Spider-man.
Personally, I'd prefer it if he was a white character. Just because that's the way he is. Nerdy white kid becomes Spider-man.
Interesting that you say this. Based on the assumption that most people here haven't looked past the original characters, there are a few things to keep in mind:Raykuza said:
- There is a Japanese Spider-Man, complete with his own separate character, setting, and other such knick-knacks.
- There is also a Japanese Spawn, similar to the above.
- The Ultimate series is a separate continuity, given that most if not all the characters are rewritten in modern times (including General Nick Fury, him being black, and Iron Man where he looks like a Lego mascot). Take this subject we're talking about now: ol' Spidey. Ultimate Spidey is still in high school, him and Eddie Brock/Venom are childhood friends, and the Venom symbiote is not an alien but rather a science experiment gone horribly awry.
- Spider-Man 2099 is actually Latino, if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong).
I was about to play the play the "stick to the comics" card myself until I saw your post which then ignited the above points. So for that, I say good show.
HELL NO!! Don't get me wrong, I think that Danny Glover is a good actor. And I like the fact that Samuel L. Jackson is Nick Fury, though that kinda actually happened with Ultimate comix. But it would be too weird to have a character like Peter Parker, who's always been portrayed as white, suddenly be a black guy. No offense meant, but that would be the same as having a white guy play Luke Cage, or the Falcon in a movie, or the Black Panther. It just wouldn't feel right. I'm sure other comic fans see where I'm coming from here.
Everyone knows Peter Parker is "white" because when Spiderman was created EVERYONE was white in fiction. Black people were pretty much background characters well into the 80's. That's just the way society was back then.
But we are also talking about FICTIONAL characters, who for all intents in purposes are defined by their PERSONALITY not their skin color.
Honestly, I feel that all this does is expose the latent racism within our society, as this type of discussion always has done, whether we be talking about Heimdall from Thor or someone playing a "Black" Doctor Who or a "black" James Bond or a "black" Superman.
I think that white people sometimes just don't REALIZE that these thoughts sometimes have racist origins because the stigma of being accused of being racist is frightening or offensive.
But if we stepped back and looked at things objectively, really would it be THAT disconcerting for Peter Parker to be Black? Would it REALLY ruin the experience for Spiderman fans? Do you REALLY think you wouldn't get over it, or come to accept it?
Who is Peter Parker?
1. He's a student.
2. He's a nerd.
3. He's lower middle class or Upper level poor.
4. He's withdrawn and anti-social at times.
5. He's smart
6. He has the courage to do the right thing when it is needed.
7. He has Spider powers.
Now... which one of those is an exclusively WHITE trait? Which one would be impossible for a black kid to exhibit?
Exactly.
The only people who would have a problem with a black peter parker would be YOU in your own mind, and if you couldn't find a good reason for not accepting it, you've got some racist issues, plain and simple. All that "Stick to the storyline" garbage is nothing more than another excuse you tell yourself so that you WON'T feel like you're being discriminatory.
After all, you don't actually have to BE a racist to have a bias against a creed or color.
You could still have the same storyline, still have the same one liners, the same on again off again romance with Mary Jane, the same battles with Venom and Doc Ock. Nothing changes but the color palette. There is even room there to flesh out the personalities of OTHER characters in interesting ways... like I could EASILY see Kraven the Hunter being a racist who is infuriated by the discovery that he keeps being bested by some "BLACK" kid.
Vice Versa, I could easily see "Black Panther" being a white guy, although you'd have to change some things. See that's the problem with the opposite scenario, caused also by the times the characters were conceived in. We can't imagine a "white" Black Panther or Luke Cage because UNLIKE Spiderman and Superman, those characters were SPECIFICALLY written based on stereotypes and assumptions and geared TOWARDS black cultures. Tchalla is a prince of an African nation who fights guys like the "Man Ape" (Yes, his foe was a big black guy who looked like a Gorilla... good luck pulling that shyte in today's uber PC world) and Luke Cage was practically running in gangs in the inner city.
Here's a good example. Anybody remember Night Thrasher of the New Warriors? Was he white or black? What about Panthro from Thundercats? Destro from GI Joe?
Over the years I've been in many discussions where people from both races white and black have thought differently on those characters. A lot of people think Panthro was black, but I know a few black people who swear he was "white" (or as white or black as an anthropomorphic blue muscle-bound cat alien guy can be). Destro? I heard he was scottish or Irish, but there are black scots and black Irishmen (Phil Lynott anyone?). Night Thrasher? I'm still not sure what race he really was.
In the end, does it REALLY matter? As long as the MOVIE is good, shouldn't that be all we care about? As long as the CHARACTER is accurate in every other way? I mean, we let Sam Raimi decide that Peter Parker shoots wrist webs. Nobody really cried about that. Mary Jane was like 42 in the last Spiderman movie. So what? Venom was a 115lb weakling.. okay, THAT sucked.
Point being, I think ultimately most people could look past the skin color if they wanted to. As long as he was from Krypton, could fly, and wore an S on his chest, Will Smith could make a decent Superman. Samuel Jackson would make an EXCELLENT Doctor Who (IMHO).
Someday, if we are to ever TRULY get past this "race" thing in our society, SOMEONE is going to have to take that chance and cross a boundary. Someone is going to have to take that plunge, take that risk, and cast Kimbo Slice as Wolverine.
It certainly couldn't make things any worse..
But we are also talking about FICTIONAL characters, who for all intents in purposes are defined by their PERSONALITY not their skin color.
Honestly, I feel that all this does is expose the latent racism within our society, as this type of discussion always has done, whether we be talking about Heimdall from Thor or someone playing a "Black" Doctor Who or a "black" James Bond or a "black" Superman.
I think that white people sometimes just don't REALIZE that these thoughts sometimes have racist origins because the stigma of being accused of being racist is frightening or offensive.
But if we stepped back and looked at things objectively, really would it be THAT disconcerting for Peter Parker to be Black? Would it REALLY ruin the experience for Spiderman fans? Do you REALLY think you wouldn't get over it, or come to accept it?
Who is Peter Parker?
1. He's a student.
2. He's a nerd.
3. He's lower middle class or Upper level poor.
4. He's withdrawn and anti-social at times.
5. He's smart
6. He has the courage to do the right thing when it is needed.
7. He has Spider powers.
Now... which one of those is an exclusively WHITE trait? Which one would be impossible for a black kid to exhibit?
Exactly.
The only people who would have a problem with a black peter parker would be YOU in your own mind, and if you couldn't find a good reason for not accepting it, you've got some racist issues, plain and simple. All that "Stick to the storyline" garbage is nothing more than another excuse you tell yourself so that you WON'T feel like you're being discriminatory.
After all, you don't actually have to BE a racist to have a bias against a creed or color.
You could still have the same storyline, still have the same one liners, the same on again off again romance with Mary Jane, the same battles with Venom and Doc Ock. Nothing changes but the color palette. There is even room there to flesh out the personalities of OTHER characters in interesting ways... like I could EASILY see Kraven the Hunter being a racist who is infuriated by the discovery that he keeps being bested by some "BLACK" kid.
Vice Versa, I could easily see "Black Panther" being a white guy, although you'd have to change some things. See that's the problem with the opposite scenario, caused also by the times the characters were conceived in. We can't imagine a "white" Black Panther or Luke Cage because UNLIKE Spiderman and Superman, those characters were SPECIFICALLY written based on stereotypes and assumptions and geared TOWARDS black cultures. Tchalla is a prince of an African nation who fights guys like the "Man Ape" (Yes, his foe was a big black guy who looked like a Gorilla... good luck pulling that shyte in today's uber PC world) and Luke Cage was practically running in gangs in the inner city.
Here's a good example. Anybody remember Night Thrasher of the New Warriors? Was he white or black? What about Panthro from Thundercats? Destro from GI Joe?
Over the years I've been in many discussions where people from both races white and black have thought differently on those characters. A lot of people think Panthro was black, but I know a few black people who swear he was "white" (or as white or black as an anthropomorphic blue muscle-bound cat alien guy can be). Destro? I heard he was scottish or Irish, but there are black scots and black Irishmen (Phil Lynott anyone?). Night Thrasher? I'm still not sure what race he really was.
In the end, does it REALLY matter? As long as the MOVIE is good, shouldn't that be all we care about? As long as the CHARACTER is accurate in every other way? I mean, we let Sam Raimi decide that Peter Parker shoots wrist webs. Nobody really cried about that. Mary Jane was like 42 in the last Spiderman movie. So what? Venom was a 115lb weakling.. okay, THAT sucked.
Point being, I think ultimately most people could look past the skin color if they wanted to. As long as he was from Krypton, could fly, and wore an S on his chest, Will Smith could make a decent Superman. Samuel Jackson would make an EXCELLENT Doctor Who (IMHO).
Someday, if we are to ever TRULY get past this "race" thing in our society, SOMEONE is going to have to take that chance and cross a boundary. Someone is going to have to take that plunge, take that risk, and cast Kimbo Slice as Wolverine.
It certainly couldn't make things any worse..
"Honestly, I feel that all this does is expose the latent racism within our society, as this type of discussion always has done, whether we be talking about Heimdall from Thor or someone playing a "Black" Doctor Who or a "black" James Bond or a "black" Superman."
The problem lies with taking something people have been familiar with for years, and then suddenly changing it. I don't think that this is a racist problem at all. It would just be a drastic appearance change. Take for example the new look that Dante has been given in the upcoming DMC5 game. I can't stand the way that the character has been reimagined. I don't even care if he has a similar personality, he's just not going to be Dante to me. Is is still a white guy playing him? Yes. But I don't care. Its not the character I have been familiar with for the last 4 installments. That's how it would be with Spiderman. Would I mind seeing a movie about a black guy who gets similar powers to spidey and has a similar life to him? No i wouldn't. Heck, in a future comic one of his descendants could be a black guy carrying the title of Spiderman. I'd probably read the comic. But To change the character that I have been reading about for years and still call him Peter Parker? Nope. Can't do it, sorry. That's why Deadpool was a fail in the movie Wolverine: Origins.
The problem lies with taking something people have been familiar with for years, and then suddenly changing it. I don't think that this is a racist problem at all. It would just be a drastic appearance change. Take for example the new look that Dante has been given in the upcoming DMC5 game. I can't stand the way that the character has been reimagined. I don't even care if he has a similar personality, he's just not going to be Dante to me. Is is still a white guy playing him? Yes. But I don't care. Its not the character I have been familiar with for the last 4 installments. That's how it would be with Spiderman. Would I mind seeing a movie about a black guy who gets similar powers to spidey and has a similar life to him? No i wouldn't. Heck, in a future comic one of his descendants could be a black guy carrying the title of Spiderman. I'd probably read the comic. But To change the character that I have been reading about for years and still call him Peter Parker? Nope. Can't do it, sorry. That's why Deadpool was a fail in the movie Wolverine: Origins.
I think Donald Glover would be amazing. Fuck. I understand why they said no, but damn. I would really like to see Spidey played by CG.
Iactually would like to see a new twist on Spiderman that has him as a black guy. or asian or latin or whatever. After so many years, Characters need to get a little mixup occasionally.Queen Michael said:
A character shouldn't be promoted simply by his race. Unless it is like Eskimoman.
Once again, I don't see how this is a matter of race, so much as it is familiarity. Unless we are talking of passing down the title of Spiderman to another person, I don't see how it would work for Parker's nationality to change. He's just too much of an established character through mediums like Comics, Games, Cartoons and movies to be suddenly altered without receiving a negative reaction from the fans. An alternate universe thing to explain it could make it feasible, but just not the main man.ultratog1028 said: