It took 6 months to read my title.
- Apr 3, 2020
He's basically a macguffin in 1, so yeah? Kinda? But within the story he's largely used to get off the planet to get back to their job. Getting the chosen one is a freebie.Hawki said:Yet he remains important. Important enough that it dictates a lot of Qui-Gon's actions in Ep. 1, and by virtue of his death, Obi-Wan's.crimson5pheonix said:And yet what's actually important to the plot is the trade federation starting a civil war. Even within the movies, and II is the worst about it, the plot focuses on other characters more than Anakin and his chosen-y ness. The other half of episode II is Obiwan's adventure to finding out about a shadowy conspiracy behind the civil war.
Are you going to complain that a plot containing a chosen one focuses on the chosen one? These are the big tentpole movies, they are going to focus on that and leave other stories to other movies and media. If you're concerned that the numbered movies focus on a small core group of characters, let me tell you about all the other SW media you can consume to get away from them.In fiction, primary characters usually get more backstory than secondary characters. That's what makes them primary. But even then, are we supposed to brush aside that the two main characters of the first two trilogies are "the special?"Wow, I didn't realize that being a secondary character makes you a non-entity and Not Count(tm).
Mon Mothma is from the OT, as the highest ranking resistance member we know. She explains the plan to destroy the Death Star. She organizes the resistance.Mon Mothma's barely a character in the movies. I don't think she's even named in RotJ. Holdo's more of a character than she is.She also doesn't show much force use in the OT and yes, she's adopted by a political family, but the rebel leader aspect is entirely on her. Just like with Mon Mothma.
A useful connection, but she stuck her neck out to be a rebel, she definitely proves herself capable regardless of her parentage.And Leia being a member of the rebellion is implied to have been made possible because of her dad. Bail helps the Rebellion, Leia helps Bail, plans transmitted to Tantive V, cue start of Ep. 4.
It was left open and her having strong lineage is definitely a possibility (and let's avoid talking about how absurdly strong she is compared to a trained warrior), but all that was teased is that her parents may or may not be alive.Okay, fan-crafting isn't part of the movie, I'll give you that. But TFA never resolves the parent thing. The last we hear of them is Maz telling Rey "in your heart, you know they're not coming back." However, Ben says (paraphrased) "Han would have been a poor father" [for Rey]; acknowledging the bond that's formed between them. Even if TFA isn't in of itself suggesting that Rey is of special linneage, it never closes the lid on the issue either. Rey is never shown to come to terms with it. And also, this J.J. "Mystery Box" Abrams. I highly suspect that the parents were left ambiguous for the trilogy to follow up on. And even if he didn't, Rey is insanely powerful, able to best a Skywalker in lightsaber combat. Suspecting she's from some Jedi line is pretty reasonable fancrafting, even if we accept that the film isn't pushing for it.You had me until you got to fan theory crafting. That's by definition not something in the movie. TFA made absolutely no buildup to her parents being somebodies, some fans did. To the rest of us who didn't, and just assumed she was like literally everybody else in the galaxy except for Luke and Anakin, it came out of nowhere. Because we were paying attention to the narrative instead of assuming the film makers were catering to us.
Plotwise you could cut it, but it's character establishing, so that his subversion of it at the end of the movie is more meaningful. And one of the biggest complaints is that group went on a wild goose chase on Canto Bight. It was a roundabout way for Holdo to be hypocritical.There's still more moral ambiguity in Canto Bight than Han. Han's moral ambiguity is based entirely around his character, and it's resolved by the end. You could cut the scene out of the film entirely and lose nothing plot-wise. Canto Bight, on the other hand, IS relevant to the plot, as well as driving Finn's character arc.I'm not going to say the OT is a bastion of complex characters, far from it, but I'm not buying that the new trilogy has shown any more moral complexity. "Arms dealers sell to both sides!" is about on the level of "Han shot first".
Granted, Canto Bight drags on for too long IMO, but meh.
And in SW we have Han, Obi-wan, Poe, Finn,Arragorn and Frodo are both important, but it's importance that comes from different sources. Aragorn is Isilidur's heir, true king of Gondor, yadda yadda yadda. Frodo is a nobody, but has the strength of character to bear the One Ring. By Star Wars, Aragorn is Luke, Frodo is Rey pre-Rise.SW if full of characters, tons of characters, and with the backdrop of space battles (star wars, if you will), Luke may be the one to face down the evil space wizard, but that chance only comes on the backs of a ton of characters.
Saying these characters aren't important and thus Don't Count(tm) when talking about where people in the story come from is like saying Frodo isn't important in LotR because Aragorn is the one fulfilling prophecies. Or the reverse saying Aragorn isn't important because Frodo got the ring to the volcano.
That isn't to say these characters aren't important, but they're still subservient to the protagonists. Lord of the Rings simultaniously embodies traditional heroism (Aragorn) and subverts it (Frodo). Star Wars arguably subverted it as well through Anakin, but he was still "the special" in that context.
So what? Results matter.None of which negates his "the special" status. Him being manipulated doesn't diminish his raw power, or origin via immaculate conception.And ends up the pawn in a scheme by Palpatine, the actual most important person in the galaxy while the other jedi fight in a war and try to uncover his plot.
In what way though? All you've shown is that they play a key role in being called special. If that's your complaint, then okay I guess, SW has a problem with calling the chosen one the chosen one. But I thought this was a complaint that only chosen ones get to be heroic in SW, which technically Rey isn't one either, just having a powerful ancestor doesn't make you a special. I know the actual complaint with her is that she have no parentage instead of verified powerful parentage, but whatever SW has said about someone being special, it has always put it's emphasis on what the characters did, no matter what their destiny said they were supposed to do.Yes, Jedi are around, and we know that the Force isn't bound by blood (though IIRC, one of the reasons the Jedi forbid magic in the old EU was to stop 'Force dynasties' rising). But EU, old or new aside, the films aren't free from bloodlines either. Again, Luke says how "the Force is strong in my family," and considering what we see him, Vader, and even Leia do, that's a fair assessment. In the OT, Qui-Gon asks who Anakin's father is - actually dipping into the old EU for a second, the novelization establishes that Qui-Gon could sense that the Force was strong with Shimi, but that the strength wasn't so great that it could explain Anakin's raw power).I admit that it was a bad plot twist to make her Palpy's spawn. However the first part of your statement is flat out false. The fact that there is a Jedi order at all (and that Jedi are celibate) implies that the force can flow through anyone. And we had several movies showing exactly that. TLJ wasn't saying anything new or exciting by saying this.
Point is, the existence of Jedi in of themselves doesn't negate that even going just by the films, bloodline apparently plays a key role.
SW already takes a character's motivation, skill, and personal choice above anything else about their heritage.