Star Wars 9: The Sky of Ricewalker: A senseless, incoherent nightmare.

PsychedelicDiamond

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Johnny Novgorod said:
PsychedelicDiamond said:
Marik2 said:
I thought Rose was put there to appeal to China, and maybe they got mad that a black guy was going to pair with her?
I doubt that a Vietnamese actress was specifically meant to appeal to China. I assume if they wanted to do that, they would have simply cast a Chinese actress.
On the contrary, I think Rose was a deliberate (and misguided) attempt to appeal to China. To Asia in general.
Here in Argentina we recognize the casting of Diego Luna and Oscar Isaac as obvious attempts to ingratiate the movies with the Latin American demographic. We don't care that the actors are Mexican and Guatemalan. We get what they're trying to do.
Well, I take your word for it. Maybe it's just a privilege of not being part of a target audience that's specifically being pandered to when you're part of the target audience that's generally being pandered to. When I, a German, watch The Mandalorian I don't ever think about wether Werner Herzog is in it to appeal to the German audience. I mean, I did spend some time wondering why Werner Herzog is in a Star Wars show, but for different reasons.
 

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twistedmic said:
PsychedelicDiamond said:
Finn, you see, was built up as love interest for Rey in the first movie. So far so good. The second movie gave him a new love interest in an Asian character called Rose, who this movie mostly ignores.
Was Finn really set up to be a love interest for Rey? Outside of him asking her if she had a boyfriend, Finn's interactions with Rey could be read as a platonic friendship.
The cynic in me already assumed at that point that this was a studio mandated decision because the suits felt that pairing a black man with a white woman was somehow too risky so they felt the need to hook him up with an appropriately ethnic love interest in the sequel.
Finn did not seem sexually attracted to Rose, and Finn has no control over who finds him sexually attractive.


Rise of Skywalker feels the need to give him yet another love interest, a black character named Jannah played by gorgeous Naomi Ackie.
What, exactly, makes Jannah a love interest to Finn? The fact that they talked together? Is that the only requisite to being a love interest? Maybe it was the fact that they went into battle together? Finn seemed shocked that he found more people who had defected from the First Order like he did. He did not strike me as drooling over her or wanting to get in her pants. And there did not seem to be enough time for any romantic feelings to develop between Finn and Jannah. This movie had a short time-frame of only a few days if I'm not mistaken.

Finally, at the end Finn immediately sought out Poe and Rey, the first two people he befriended once he fled the First Order. He didn't search out Rose or Jannah or some random Resistance chick.

And this was where the movie genuinely started to gross me out. This felt like a downright capitulation to complaints about big Hollywood studios promoting miscegenation or "racemixing" and an apology for ever pairing a black man up with a woman of a different ethnicity. So now Finn finally has a black love interest and me and my fellow Caucasians can sleep easy, knowing that white genocide has once again been averted. Great fucking job, Mickey.
I feel like this is either some hardcore projecting or you reading insanely too deep into a simple movie. Nothing I saw in the sequel trilogy gave me the indication that Disney was pushing any kind of racial message or agenda, other than maybe skin color doesn't matter.
Agreed. I don't know where the topic creator coming from on that subject about love interests.

Marik2 said:
I've long accepted that I will just watch the new main Disney Star Wars movies as high budget fanfic.
How you feel about the sequel trilogy is how I feel about Legend of Korra and the original sequel comics to Avatar: Last Airbender.

Saw Rise of the Skywalker. Loved it. Is it better than Last Jedi? Yes, but I loved LJ. The only problem with LJ was that casino thing went on for way too long (and lead to almost nothing), and I hate Holdo with a passion. Otherwise, also a great movie, 8/10. RoS is a 9 and is a great end to the new trilogy.

My friends and fellow users, it's time I told you something important. This is my last ride for all things Star Wars. I'm more or less done with it. I might see Mandalorian, but I'm not exactly hyped for the show. I'll still discuss with you guys and gals if certain SW topics comes up.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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PsychedelicDiamond said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
PsychedelicDiamond said:
Marik2 said:
I thought Rose was put there to appeal to China, and maybe they got mad that a black guy was going to pair with her?
I doubt that a Vietnamese actress was specifically meant to appeal to China. I assume if they wanted to do that, they would have simply cast a Chinese actress.
On the contrary, I think Rose was a deliberate (and misguided) attempt to appeal to China. To Asia in general.
Here in Argentina we recognize the casting of Diego Luna and Oscar Isaac as obvious attempts to ingratiate the movies with the Latin American demographic. We don't care that the actors are Mexican and Guatemalan. We get what they're trying to do.
Well, I take your word for it. Maybe it's just a privilege of not being part of a target audience that's specifically being pandered to when you're part of the target audience that's generally being pandered to. When I, a German, watch The Mandalorian I don't ever think about wether Werner Herzog is in it to appeal to the German audience. I mean, I did spend some time wondering why Werner Herzog is in a Star Wars show, but for different reasons.
It's not about nationality, it's about ethnicity. Luna and Isaac are Latino first, meant to draw the Latino crowd (not this or that country specifically). For the Board Room it's easier to break demographics into 5 or 6 ethnic groups rather than 200+ countries.
Then again China accounts for 1/7th of the world so if you're going to pander to one country you wanna get them I guess.
I also think if there's any demographic being targeted via Herzog it's the cinephiles.
I love Aguirre, Stroszek and Fitzcarraldo but I'm not gonna get another streaming service just to watch Werner clock in a cameo.
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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I felt Force Awakens did too much rethreading, but I can have fun watching it. I have many issues with The Last Jedi, but there are things about it I enjoyed. Rise of Skywalker tho...

The first half was just a messy jumble of lots of stuff happening that felt like it had just a touch of the Michael Bay to it, minus his signature 'splosions and screaming ... mostly. And after that, I just didn't care anymore. Unfortunately I was seeing it with friends, so the remainder of the runtime I had to wait for the movie to end. Not even Ian McDiarmid hamming it up could save it, and I friggin' love watching that man chew scenery, mostly because I think he wasn't over-the-top enough (whenever he wasn't just repeating old lines).

Didn't like the movie. At all.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Lykosia said:
The best part of Rise was Luke's FU to Rian Johnson: Jedi's weapon deserves more respect.
For me that just shows how there's no real artistic vision behind these movies. Each one is a coldly workshopped response to the backlash the previous movie received. None of them stand behind anything, none of them are "for" anything. If a character is poorly received, they scrap it. If a moment doesn't sell, they retcon it.
 

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Lykosia said:
The best part of Rise was Luke's FU to Rian Johnson: Jedi's weapon deserves more respect.
For me that just shows how there's no real artistic vision behind these movies. Each one is a coldly workshopped reponse to the backlash the previous movie received. None of them stand behind anything, none of them are "for" anything. If a character is poorly received, they scrap it. If a moment doesn't sell, they retcon it.
I went ahead and spoiled myself on the film, and that feels pretty on-point. I believe I have described both TFA and TLJ as feeling like fanfics in several respects, and TRS seems to continue that trend in how it highlights the...shall we say conflicting directorial visions between films?
 

bluegate

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Anyone else laugh at the end, where everyone came "home" to the resistance, everyone was hugging and Maz Kanata randomly gave Chewie a medal?

Because, fans were always bitching about you not getting one during the "official" ceremony in Episode 4, so here, I'll sneak you one I found in the garbage, because the piece of metal is what you wanted, right? Not the recognition of being awarded the piece of metal along with your friends, right?

Did Chewie ever express dissatisfaction about not getting a medal?
 

Squilookle

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Lykosia said:
The best part of Rise was Luke's FU to Rian Johnson: Jedi's weapon deserves more respect.
For me that just shows how there's no real artistic vision behind these movies. Each one is a coldly workshopped response to the backlash the previous movie received. None of them stand behind anything, none of them are "for" anything. If a character is poorly received, they scrap it. If a moment doesn't sell, they retcon it.
Exactly. Fuck the lightsabers- Yoda didn't become the best, most beloved of all the Jedi in the original trilogy by using a lightsaber. You never even saw if he had one. I'd say that Luke tossing his own saber over his shoulder was one of the best parts of TLJ. As was Rey's parents being nobodies. I genuinely liked that because for the first time this meant we had a main character who really was new and fresh to Star Wars. Then Rise was all like "nah- actually you're a Palpatine. So hard work and diligent training doesn't actually get you anywhere in this universe after all. You're only special because of your bloodline" and Palpatine somehow boned someone at one point- which is too horrifying to even contemplate.

bluegate said:
Anyone else laugh at the end, where everyone came "home" to the resistance, everyone was hugging and Maz Kanata randomly gave Chewie a medal?

Because, fans were always bitching about you not getting one during the "official" ceremony in Episode 4, so here, I'll sneak you one I found in the garbage, because the piece of metal is what you wanted, right? Not the recognition of being awarded the piece of metal along with your friends, right?

Did Chewie ever express dissatisfaction about not getting a medal?
No, he never gave it a second thought. What really pisses me off is that everybody bitches about Chewy not getting a medal for co-piloting a ship that shows up at the last second of a hard fought battle. You know who else didn't get a medal? Wedge motherfuckin' Antilles. And he sure as shit did a lot more to bring down the Death Star than Han or Chewy ever did.


But fuck logic, right? He's not the one everybody moaned about. Nope, Han's co-pilot didn't get one, boo hoo. So of course that's the squeaky wheel Disney pours the oil on.
 

Burnouts3s3

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I watched it. I didn't hate it.

I mean I thought it was stupid, but I also thought Midichlorians, Jar Jar and podracing were pretty stupid as well so I just add to the pile.

I think Kevin Feige will be a welcome addition to the franchise and I hope he can do for the SW movies what he did for Marvel.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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I actually am surprised how they made the comically evil insane emo Vader-larping boy the most well-developed character in the trilogy. It takes a lot of work to make so many characters have this little character development where he comes up on top lol.


I think this movie is getting a lot of backlash from people who liked the other ones because it took a step towards the directions the fans want and didn't focus as much on some characters who were disliked by fans but liked by the critics. Also I have seen some crazy people interpret the deathly rivalry between the Jedi and Sith as "romanticized domestic violence" simply because you have romance spring forth from that condition which is all sorts of silly of a reason to dislike the movie lol.


As for how Palpatine is alive, my understanding of it is that he's apparently some form of essence that just reforms itself. Like an avatar of evil itself that reincarnates within the dark side.

Finn, you see, was built up as love interest for Rey in the first movie. So far so good. The second movie gave him a new love interest in an Asian character called Rose, who this movie mostly ignores. The cynic in me already assumed at that point that this was a studio mandated decision because the suits felt that pairing a black man with a white woman was somehow too risky so they felt the need to hook him up with an appropriately ethnic love interest in the sequel. Rise of Skywalker feels the need to give him yet another love interest, a black character named Jannah played by gorgeous Naomi Ackie. And this was where the movie genuinely started to gross me out. Well, you know, that and the Carrie Fisher thing. This felt like a downright capitulation to complaints about big Hollywood studios promoting miscegenation or "racemixing" and an apology for ever pairing a black man up with a woman of a different ethnicity. So now Finn finally has a black love interest and me and my fellow Caucasians can sleep easy, knowing that white genocide has once again been averted. Great fucking job, Micke
If there's any fanbase that caused Finn to be sidetracked, it's not the one you're thinking of. In the Chinese posters, they actually made his depiction smaller than in the non-Chinese ones, because China hates black people apparently. If they were trying to not alienate anyone, it's those billion and a half of people, not the few thousand loud angry online neckbeards who will see the movie anyway because it's SW lol.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Dreiko said:
As for how Palpatine is alive, my understanding of it is that he's apparently some form of essence that just reforms itself. Like an avatar of evil itself that reincarnates within the dark side.
By that logic what even is the point of fighting Palpatine if he just keeps coming? Why is Episode 9 any more of a happy conclusion to a trilogy of good vs. evil than Episode 6?
 

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PsychedelicDiamond said:
Last Jedi establishing that Rey was, indeed, not related to anyone important served as an important step for the series away from its rigid focus on exceptional bloodlines to a more grounded and more humanist view of importance not as something inherited but as something acquired. Rey being a normal girl with no special background was Last Jedi's best idea
Sounds like an uphill battle. If this is the same universe where Luke Skywalker got to be the hero, then anyone will only ever be the hero because the force/plot says so, and for no reason to do with their inherent skill or character or heroism or morality or anything. Yoda even tried to recruit his vastly more competent sister and the plot said: 'fuck you, Yoda, die.'
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Dreiko said:
As for how Palpatine is alive, my understanding of it is that he's apparently some form of essence that just reforms itself. Like an avatar of evil itself that reincarnates within the dark side.
By that logic what even is the point of fighting Palpatine if he just keeps coming? Why is Episode 9 any more of a happy conclusion to a trilogy of good vs. evil than Episode 6?
Well, you see, that way you can keep making movies ad-infinitum! And you may never know who he'll be reincarnated as next time! Maybe he'll take Ray over or something.

But yeah, the point I guess is to wrestle the control of the Empire away from him and isolate him, not much more you can do outside of being ever-vigilant.
 

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Lykosia said:
Palpatine surviving isn't surprising. Darth Maul survived and he was cut in half and fell into a pit. Palpatine is actually well established villain unlike Snoke who we knew nothing about until Johnson stupidly killed him. It was TLJ that completely ruined the trilogy. It only managed to piss of fans. Rise has currently audience score of 86% on RT, which shows that JJ and Disney made the right call to try to forget TLJ.

The best part of Rise was Luke's FU to Rian Johnson: Jedi's weapon deserves more respect.
Rian's Luke would have caught it.The Luke at the end of Last Jedi isn't the same Luke at the start. It's the one plot point JJ did respect.

Also, Lucas made a film that tipped the chosen one trope on its head. JJ now makes it all about bloodlines and how they are the only chosen ones. Force Awakens is like 40 year old microwaved leftovers. Just a pale image of what it used to be. If any ruining happened, it started there
 

Johnny Novgorod

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The two biggest failures of this new trilogy are:

1) It failed at creating something new, instead it traced over the original and wallowed in the Greatest Hits.
2) It failed at justifying its very existence by never properly explaining (let alone convincing) how the Empire is still around, whatever you wanna call it; how the Rebels let the 100% victory of RotJ slide; how Palpatine is still alive. Part of my complete disinterest in Star Wars is simply that I've spent the past 4 years unconvinced by the continued fight between good guys and bad guys. I'm not saying it's an impossible scenario but these movies just took for granted that everything staid more or less the same.
 

Lykosia_v1legacy

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Lykosia said:
The best part of Rise was Luke's FU to Rian Johnson: Jedi's weapon deserves more respect.
For me that just shows how there's no real artistic vision behind these movies. Each one is a coldly workshopped response to the backlash the previous movie received. None of them stand behind anything, none of them are "for" anything. If a character is poorly received, they scrap it. If a moment doesn't sell, they retcon it.
There was no roadmap behing the trilogy. That's why it's so messy. Abrams and Johnson both had their own vision, which were far apart. Abrams wanted to honor previous movies and make fan service, Johnson wanted to break the mold, which angered fans. In the end, it's the fans who made Star Wars what it is today.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Dreiko said:
If there's any fanbase that caused Finn to be sidetracked, it's not the one you're thinking of. In the Chinese posters, they actually made his depiction smaller than in the non-Chinese ones, because China hates black people apparently. If they were trying to not alienate anyone, it's those billion and a half of people, not the few thousand loud angry online neckbeards who will see the movie anyway because it's SW lol.
Right. It's China's fault that you can't have blacks and gay couples in Hollywood movies and it's Russia's fault that Trump is president. Because surely it can't be western people who are the problem.

Lykosia said:
In the end, it's the fans who made Star Wars what it is today.
For better and for worse, this I can agree with.
 

twistedmic

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Squilookle said:
No, he never gave it a second thought. What really pisses me off is that everybody bitches about Chewy not getting a medal for co-piloting a ship that shows up at the last second of a hard fought battle. You know who else didn't get a medal? Wedge motherfuckin' Antilles. And he sure as shit did a lot more to bring down the Death Star than Han or Chewy ever did.


But fuck logic, right? He's not the one everybody moaned about. Nope, Han's co-pilot didn't get one, boo hoo. So of course that's the squeaky wheel Disney pours the oil on.
Not to be too picky, but Han and Chewie did more to destroy the Death Star by being instrumental in rescuing Princess Leia and bringing the Death Star plans to the Rebel Alliance, which allowed them to find the weakness and destroy it.
And from a viewer's perspective (as opposed to an in-universe perspective) Wedge is little more than a glorified extra in the original movie. He was a side character with a few lines of dialogue, he wasn't a main character.