Star Wars' "Black Stormtrooper" to Critics: "Get Used to it"

[Therumancer]

[

I agree with mostly everything you said, except the race bait part. Why is it race baiting? Is my race suddenly not allowed to exist in the Star Wars Universe without being a big deal or something? Like god it's freaking Star Wars they don't even have racism based on skin color. It seems to me that a recent trend is that whenever a minority is featured (whether it be based on gender, race, or sexual orientation) people immediately say it's just corporations/companies playing some sort of "bait card".

I just want to say "Hey Internet, minorities exist and it's not a big deal. Get over it."

Well, it's race baiting depending on where and how you do it. There isn't any racism among humans within Star Wars as has been established, we've even seen "minorities" (I use the term in quotes because whites are minority and a very small one globally, but we're talking about what are minorities in Europe and it's former now-independent colonies). Simply having a black person in Star Wars is no big deal, I mean heck we already had Lando. This is a case where it seemed like they were looking for the one place it would get attention and wouldn't make sense without explanation and went with that. If they had that black dude as anything else but a Storm Trooper nobody would have likely batted an eye.

It's similar to my opinion on what they did with the "Thor" movies in making Heimdall a black dude, when he is both white in comics, and also a norse god. In pretty much any other position nobody would have noticed or cared, but that seems like it was done just to get attention. It's not like they didn't have a reasonable number of black or minority characters in Marvel to use without having to change an existing one. This is pretty much my stance on all of the race switching going on as well. Of course I confess to a vested interest in this because there are a few black super heroes I like, and as long as people feel they can achieve more by "blackwashing" the odds of anyone deciding to start doing movies based on characters from say Image, Wildstorm (defunct DC imprint), or Dark Horse are pretty slim. Not to mention them not being as quick to use characters like Night Thrasher or give teams like The New Warriors a shot. That's all my opinion of course, but to be honest I've wanted another attempt at a "Spawn" movie for a really long time now for example, but really I doubt they would get the same kind of reaction and PR by buying the rights to Spawn and doing a movie than say making The Human Torch black.

Basically if we had taken the guy in storm trooper armor and put him in a costume similar to Daisy on the speeder bike there would likely have been zero comments about it, because it's really not about race and "OMG you have someone who isn't white in the movie". Indeed the attempts being made to spin it that way, including comments by the actor himself which are kind of inflammatory, makes me think it's part of a viral advertising strategy.

 

[Therumancer]

[

This. The Xenophobia in the Empire was only discussed in the the EU books and specifically in pointing out Thrawn had a hard time getting to admiral due to his non-human status. So if a Chiss made admiral it wasn't like it was the end all be all anyway. Honestly having trouble believing anyone really complained about this. You'd have to be a Starwars historian to even notice and no starwars nerd is really gonna give a shit. There's been a funny and well received Blackstormtrooper Youtube meme for a while now. Sounds like them trying is get a Gold star over nothing.

Well, I think it's the opposite actually. You'd have to be a "Star Wars Historian" to explain why this could be possible as I did. For most people who have only seen the movies, Storm Troopers are clones, period, as that is how the prequels did things. What's more in the canon the prequels trump the original trilogy despite the respective popularity as George Lucas intentionally retconned things to better fit his vision, which is in part why many people hated them when they saw what their vision was. Thus the whole argument about the Storm Troopers "obviously not all being clones" doesn't really apply as George didn't have the resources to do that at the time, and probably hadn't fully decided on his "vision". Retroactively you'd probably have to assume that Princess Leia's comment about being short aside that Han and Luke were probably using voice disguisers and/or wearing lifts or whatever. Not to mention that they didn't actually get away with it for all that long.

As someone pointed out "Clone Wars" and "Rebels" have also showed otherwise apparently, but how much they fit into the canon is debatable, as I seem to remember JJ only saying he was using the movies and the handful of novels. When you start bringing the cartoons into it we get questions like what happened to Anakin's apprentice, or the various force using characters present in "Rebels". Even if answered to some extent these are things that likely would have impacted the movies, just as a lot of EU stuff would, so it's probably not going to be considered canon in the long term even if Disney might be pushing "Rebels" due to it's own hand in creating it.

When it comes to Xenophobia that was brought up by Timothy Zahn, but I believe it was also mentioned in the old Han Solo books, though it's been a looong time. Basically one of the things that made Han Solo so valuable was that he was a human in a human dominated galaxy working for a syndicate of aliens who were looked down on, meaning he could get away with stuff and be questioned less as a smuggler than if say Jabba sent a couple of aliens. Of course then again by the descriptions in some of those books I believe Vader was supposed to also be like 3 meters tall so... well, you know.

The point I'm getting at is that I can very easily see there being a Black Storm Trooper and pre-JJ it would have just been "duh" since they take humans, and black people exist. That said going by the movies and what little he's using as canon, that no longer flies.

Of course I think at the end of the day a lot of it is that JJ should have just kept his mouth shut about canon until he was done (he loves to shoot it off) and learn more about the universe he was dealing with. I half expect that we're going to see this designated an "alternate universe" by fans and then begrudgingly by Disney despite resistance. Much like how we have "JJ Trek" which has been declared as separate from the "Prime" Star Trek universe. Something I'm familiar with largely due to playing so much "Star Trek Online" where the game developers who love to sell new ships and stuff were apparently told by Paramount/Viacom flat out that they want to keep the JJ stuff separate from the rest of Trek, and while non-canon they have actually been careful about what they let Cryptic do, things over the years like telling them "no" to the idea of letting there be androids as a player race for example. Apparently "Prime Universe" was the term being used by the company and it apparently consists of TOS, DS-9, TNG, Voyager, the movies and *part* of Enterprise, where the "JJ Verse", Trek Novels, The Cartoon Series, and most of Enterprise are non-canon, but potentially exist as alternate universes of the sort briefly depicted in "All Good Things". Certain concepts like The Xindi and their misguided attack on earth have been adopted into the canon, but the history actually defaults to "Roddenberry" history as far as first contacts (and the order of them) and the default state of the universe as humanity arrived, this might arguably make "First Contact" (the movie) non-canon though it could also be argued that it effected nothing (time travel doesn't) having just created another splinter universe.

The basic point is JJ is good at a lot of things, and a fine creator, but I don't think doing "Star Wars" plays to his strengths and I think he's already created a mess. I honestly think you can blame *HIM* for this controversy due to him opening his mouth rather than any kind of racism. His comments are the ones that pretty much reinforced the idea of all Storm Troopers being clones within the canon he's using, as we've never seen anything else after the prequels developed that and arguably retconned parts of the original trilogy when Lucas had more resources to "realize his vision".

Right now JJ could pretty much end all of this, but he probably won't, I think this was all started for a reason.

 

[Therumancer]

They were originally clones. However after the Republic fell and the clones on Kamino rebelled there was a much larger focus on conscripts instead. If you've played the campaign on Battlefront II you'll know the clone troop you play as reference this. The clone programme didn't end completely though as they tried other people in place of the Jango Fett model. The Emperor kept the facility going for his own purposes as well.

The problem with this though is that JJ pretty much used everything not in the movies and a scant handfull of Lucas written novels ("Splinter of The Mind's Eye", "Han Solo At Star's End") and his official novelizations of the movies as toilet paper. This means that the video games, EU novels, cartoon shows, etc.. are all non-canon. The only possible exceptions are "Star Wars Holiday Special" and "The Ewok Adventure" but given that George himself has slammed the former we can pretty much assume that joyous Wookie occasion known as "Life Day" does not exist.

See, there are like a million different ways one could justify a black Storm Trooper, but JJ's own comments lead to them pretty much being all clones because everything that was established that created a different status quo was erased from the continuity. What's more given that George Lucas did the prequels to "correct things" and better fit his vision, by making them part of the canon they represent the strongest part of the canon, overwriting things established in the classic trilogy as Lucas intended, which means similar events still happened, but arguably Han and Luke probably had to put more effort into their disguises, and the Storm Troopers would all be the same height and have the same voices.

Now JJ might just be being himself, and he never really meant that all EU stuff was abolished entirely, and that certain common sense things still existed, at which point this would be fine, but this is not what he said, and that's why it's such a WTF moment. Basically there is only one face that should be looking out from behind a Storm Trooper helmet and it's Maori... not white or black.

That said, we entirely miss the context here, we have no evidence this guy is even a Storm Trooper, he could just be wearing the armor. He seems to be worried, in the desert all alone, he's not acting as part of a unit or anything to show he's one of them. He could be disguised, or heck he might even be a mercenary using military surplus. I mean even within the canon Star Wars has mercenaries (Obi-Wan talks to a former mercenary who is one of his contacts in the prequel series when looking for information on one of the darts he recovers). Just like how a lot of the stuff mercenaries use (body armor, rifles, etc...) comes from various military forces, it makes sense with Storm Trooper
armor being mass produced it would be the rough equivalent of carrying an AK-47 which as everyone will tell you does not mean your part of the Russian military.... but that's probably reading into it too much.

 

[Winnosh]

In the original trilogy every storm trooper was a different height (some so tall they even ran into doors!) and had different voices. They were even different enough for Han Solo to successfully lie about being one over a radio, and Luke Skywalker could pass himself off as one while being an entire foot shorter.

If every storm trooper was a clone, and had been a clone for years, don't you think their plans would have fallen apart sooner?

Anyways, I do hope John Boyega is the main character. That would be pretty interesting.

That as well as the fact that Luke knew people who had joined the Imperial Academy and considered it himself. Had not the events of the movie happened he would have ended up as a Stormtrooper. This isn't EU stuff these are things in the actual original films.

 

[Unknower]

Solution to the clone-problem: different clone-"series". Clone series Alpha, Beta, Delta and so on where each group is cloned from different "forefather."

 

[Winnosh]

Solution to the clone-problem: different clone-"series". Clone series Alpha, Beta, Delta and so on where each group is cloned from different "forefather."

People just need to let the clone thing go though. Disney already showed that Stormtroopers took human recruits. Any people saying that there are only clones as stormtroopers don't really have a leg to stand on.

 

[Winnosh]

Has anyone ever thought that perhaps the style of combat you use that sword with has nothing to do with trying to catch the blade in that way. I mean Jedi and Sith have fought for Thousands of years without crossguards They could slide their blades down and cut before so even if it doesn't protect that area it's not like you're losing anything.

However the design does give you something new in changing the fighting style. Lock blades with someone and turn on the hilt so that you stab them with the hilt of your blade. Those things could be offensive instead of defensive. And also while the metal bits don't block anything, the energy parts do, and a small bit of protection is better than no protection.

 

[Adultratedhydra]

People pissed that theres now a black Stormtrooper probably forget that the Original genetic template for Stormtroopers was a large Kiwi man. By the time of the first(Fourth) movie the genetic template was fucked however so the empire was grabbing everyone and their dog to stick in the uniform.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

It's still a human, so it's not so bad.

At least it's not a Wookie.

 

[Nimcha]

Forgive me if this seems obvious but the Empire doesn't actually exist anymore after Return of the Jedi right? So why are people arguing over whether or not there would be black guys in the Imperial army?

This comes close to the most ridiculous thing I've seen all year. Only gamergate was sillier.

The Empire still exists, the Emperor doesn't. Remember it was his title not his name. A new Emperor could very easily have been chosen. People forget that the Empire was the legitimate government chosen by the people. They just happened to be very stupid and gullible people.

The Senate doesn't exist anymore so I don't think much choosing would have been done. I rather suspect it's just going to change into a New Republic of sorts.

 

[Nimcha]

I don't know. I'm no fan of gamergate, but think sabergate may be worse.

Perhaps, but so far it's at least without racism or sexism!

 

[Winnosh]

Forgive me if this seems obvious but the Empire doesn't actually exist anymore after Return of the Jedi right? So why are people arguing over whether or not there would be black guys in the Imperial army?

This comes close to the most ridiculous thing I've seen all year. Only gamergate was sillier.

The Empire still exists, the Emperor doesn't. Remember it was his title not his name. A new Emperor could very easily have been chosen. People forget that the Empire was the legitimate government chosen by the people. They just happened to be very stupid and gullible people.

The Senate doesn't exist anymore so I don't think much choosing would have been done. I rather suspect it's just going to change into a New Republic of sorts.

The Senate wouldn't choose him. The Moff's would command the military and the regional governors delt with law making and would assign a new emperor.

 

[WhitestGod]

I had just assumed that since the creation of the storm trooper armies, with the deaths of individual clones in combat, other citizens of the empire were cheaper and faster to conscript than making more clones, especially with the expansion of the forces to a broader reach of the empire.

I really don't get what the fuss is about.

I could see more of a problem with Heimdall being black, from the Thor movies, but only if you try to hold the Marvel Universe to the traditional racial/cultural impetus inherent in the Nordic Mythology. And I can't do that, in light of all of the other adaptations and tweaks and outright fabrications. And that's fine- it's kinda cool that Marvel diverged form the lore. Made it their own.

I agree with your initial statement about seeing more of a problem with Heimdall being black. It's disrespectful to the Norse religion, culture, and thus people.
At least Marvel had the good sense not to turn the "Whitest God" black in the comics.
Why stop at Norse Gods? All you'd have to do is put black face on Colonel Sanders and he'd look just like Preto Velho.

On Topic:
The media's just Black/White race baiting, as per usual, divide and conquer. Note how a closeup of the black stormtroopers mug is the first real thing you see in the trailer, it's the "attention getter". Then they act as if a bunch of Star Wars fans are rioting in the streets with their purple lightsabers. Now the media seems to be mocking the young actor and the public with how over-the-top their support of the fairly simple response of "Get used to it": "classy, perfect, awesome, brilliant, ect. comeback" and "Black bloke blows nerd bigots minds"! Please......

 

[VanTesla]

I tried to find a reason that his race would bother some people but I ain't found shit!

Spoiler: People of Colour make the best Stormtroopers in my opinion.

OT: People have been treating the Empire as an analogy to Nazi Germany or America or whatever. I think the EU had an explanation that Palpatine phased out the cloning in favor of recruits/conscripts to make his army less suspectable to bio-chemical warfare targeted at a specific gene-pool or something.

If he's the lead simply disguised as a Stormtrooper? Fine. If he's an actual Stormtrooper? Excellent.

I guess we'll just all have to wait a year.

[sup][sup][sup]Why do I get the feeling we're going to have minor explosions of Star Wars threads/news posts throughout the upcoming months...[/sup][/sup][/sup]

Besides the mention of the clones becoming susceptible to biological warfare there was the huge cost that the creation and development of enough clones to sustain the Empire was economically impossible even compared to the insane idea of making a second Death Star... Most of the Stormtroopers in the original trilogy where regular humans that where recruited/conscripted from the planets the Empire controlled or had some influence over. Also many that voluntary enlist do so to get basic training and then defect to to the Rebels in the original EU canon. Also with most Stormtroopers being regular recruits it makes it more understandable why they suck at fighting compared to say how the clones fight in the prequels or other EU content that is now defunct. There was still a few clones in service during the entire rise of the Empire and after it's fall, but they where just a handful and usually the best soldiers the Empire had and used them sparingly. The Empire was never really racist in the sense we have against people of different color and only just racist/xenophobic to other aliens and near human races, but even then they employed other aliens in high positions if they had the skills.

The Emperor promoted human superiority and believed it mostly, but even he had certain favored alien allies that he would not trust in the hand of other human Imperials. He just promoted the hate which festered through his ranks because he is evil after all.

I hope John Boyega does start out on the Empires side and realize he is on the wrong side or maybe after the Emperor fell the Empire was trying to reform. Before they said all the EU has been thrown out there where many great characters that started off on the Empires side. Most Imps are not bad at all and have no clue about most of the bad things the Emperor and Vader did for they kept most things secret like the genocides of other races and etc. only a select faithful to the Emperor and the Rebels knew the true evil of the Emperor. So in the sense of how Nazi Germany fooled the mass public and most of their soldiers that did not take part in the genocides by regime believed the lies they propagated.

 

[VanTesla]

Forgive me if this seems obvious but the Empire doesn't actually exist anymore after Return of the Jedi right? So why are people arguing over whether or not there would be black guys in the Imperial army?

This comes close to the most ridiculous thing I've seen all year. Only gamergate was sillier.

The Empire still exists, the Emperor doesn't. Remember it was his title not his name. A new Emperor could very easily have been chosen. People forget that the Empire was the legitimate government chosen by the people. They just happened to be very stupid and gullible people.

The Senate doesn't exist anymore so I don't think much choosing would have been done. I rather suspect it's just going to change into a New Republic of sorts.

Even though most of the EU has now been scraped by Disney if they go by what happen after the Emperor died at all, then the Empire is still around just not controlled by the Emperor but by his surviving Moffs, Admirals, and Governors that where supported by planets that where still loyal to the Empire. Even after they lost completely they formed a treaty/alliance with the New Republic and later gain most of the control back after a war that nearly destroyed them both when the Yuuzhan Vong showed up to try and cleanse/kill every one.

 

[VanTesla]

Solution to the clone-problem: different clone-"series". Clone series Alpha, Beta, Delta and so on where each group is cloned from different "forefather."

The problem that still would persist even if you did that is the matter of time to grow and train said clones, the number of clones you would need to polices hundreds of planets, and that cloning even under imperial control cost way to much to be sustainable. So just force conscription or propaganda Imperial controlled planets to have young humans become Stormtroopers became the normal practice. It also gives a little better explanation as to why most Stormtroopers we see in battle suck at shooting for most of them get less than basic training before being shipped out and are just used outside of battle as a police force and not a true military fighting force. After the Emperor gained full power he started to have the military turn from quality to quantity for cost and that in his mind most people would be afraid of a galactic army that unknowingly sucks verse a smaller army that has each individual able to take on a squad by themselves.

 

[Something Amyss]

Perhaps, but so far it's at least without racism or sexism!

So what you're saying is, they have the high ground?

>.>

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Perhaps, but so far it's at least without racism or sexism!

So what you're saying is, they have the high ground?

>.>

*shudder* You just had to remind me of that line. Every prequel movie has one line in it that, to me, signifies the stupidity of the prequels. That's the line from the third movie. First movie is "This sure beats podracing!" and the second movie has the entire "I hate sand" speech.

 

[Something Amyss]

*shudder* You just had to remind me of that line. Every prequel movie has one line in it that, to me, signifies the stupidity of the prequels. That's the line from the third movie. First movie is "This sure beats podracing!" and the second movie has the entire "I hate sand" speech.

I don't know. There are so many bad lines it's hard to pick standouts. But that one seemed to fit, so....

 

[angryscotsman93]

Jesus, what kind of brungus actually complains about a stormtrooper's race? Fuck those people.

Furthermore, this movie takes place several decades after Episode 6. In the non-canon stuff, at least, the Empire had realized some of its shortcomings, and had actually started to try and address its most glaring issues. I'm not saying that they suddenly became saints, or that Kessel was turned into a Scandinavian-style rehabilitation center, but they were working on it. Besides, the Empire's beef was mostly with non-humans. I figure that if you're more or less human, they'd be okay with you.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, please.