Star Wars' "Black Stormtrooper" to Critics: "Get Used to it"
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
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I agree with your initial statement about seeing more of a problem with Heimdall being black. It's disrespectful to the Norse religion, culture, and thus people.the December King said:
At least Marvel had the good sense not to turn the "Whitest God" black in the comics.
Why stop at Norse Gods? All you'd have to do is put black face on Colonel Sanders and he'd look just like Preto Velho.
On Topic:
The media's just Black/White race baiting, as per usual, divide and conquer. Note how a closeup of the black stormtroopers mug is the first real thing you see in the trailer, it's the "attention getter". Then they act as if a bunch of Star Wars fans are rioting in the streets with their purple lightsabers. Now the media seems to be mocking the young actor and the public with how over-the-top their support of the fairly simple response of "Get used to it": "classy, perfect, awesome, brilliant, ect. comeback" and "Black bloke blows nerd bigots minds"! Please......
Besides the mention of the clones becoming susceptible to biological warfare there was the huge cost that the creation and development of enough clones to sustain the Empire was economically impossible even compared to the insane idea of making a second Death Star... Most of the Stormtroopers in the original trilogy where regular humans that where recruited/conscripted from the planets the Empire controlled or had some influence over. Also many that voluntary enlist do so to get basic training and then defect to to the Rebels in the original EU canon. Also with most Stormtroopers being regular recruits it makes it more understandable why they suck at fighting compared to say how the clones fight in the prequels or other EU content that is now defunct. There was still a few clones in service during the entire rise of the Empire and after it's fall, but they where just a handful and usually the best soldiers the Empire had and used them sparingly. The Empire was never really racist in the sense we have against people of different color and only just racist/xenophobic to other aliens and near human races, but even then they employed other aliens in high positions if they had the skills.Redlin5 said:Saulkar said:
OT: People have been treating the Empire as an analogy to Nazi Germany or America or whatever. I think the EU had an explanation that Palpatine phased out the cloning in favor of recruits/conscripts to make his army less suspectable to bio-chemical warfare targeted at a specific gene-pool or something.
If he's the lead simply disguised as a Stormtrooper? Fine. If he's an actual Stormtrooper? Excellent.
I guess we'll just all have to wait a year.
[sup][sup][sup]Why do I get the feeling we're going to have minor explosions of Star Wars threads/news posts throughout the upcoming months...[/sup][/sup][/sup]
The Emperor promoted human superiority and believed it mostly, but even he had certain favored alien allies that he would not trust in the hand of other human Imperials. He just promoted the hate which festered through his ranks because he is evil after all.
I hope John Boyega does start out on the Empires side and realize he is on the wrong side or maybe after the Emperor fell the Empire was trying to reform. Before they said all the EU has been thrown out there where many great characters that started off on the Empires side. Most Imps are not bad at all and have no clue about most of the bad things the Emperor and Vader did for they kept most things secret like the genocides of other races and etc. only a select faithful to the Emperor and the Rebels knew the true evil of the Emperor. So in the sense of how Nazi Germany fooled the mass public and most of their soldiers that did not take part in the genocides by regime believed the lies they propagated.
Even though most of the EU has now been scraped by Disney if they go by what happen after the Emperor died at all, then the Empire is still around just not controlled by the Emperor but by his surviving Moffs, Admirals, and Governors that where supported by planets that where still loyal to the Empire. Even after they lost completely they formed a treaty/alliance with the New Republic and later gain most of the control back after a war that nearly destroyed them both when the Yuuzhan Vong showed up to try and cleanse/kill every one.Nimcha said:
The problem that still would persist even if you did that is the matter of time to grow and train said clones, the number of clones you would need to polices hundreds of planets, and that cloning even under imperial control cost way to much to be sustainable. So just force conscription or propaganda Imperial controlled planets to have young humans become Stormtroopers became the normal practice. It also gives a little better explanation as to why most Stormtroopers we see in battle suck at shooting for most of them get less than basic training before being shipped out and are just used outside of battle as a police force and not a true military fighting force. After the Emperor gained full power he started to have the military turn from quality to quantity for cost and that in his mind most people would be afraid of a galactic army that unknowingly sucks verse a smaller army that has each individual able to take on a squad by themselves.Unknower said:
*shudder* You just had to remind me of that line. Every prequel movie has one line in it that, to me, signifies the stupidity of the prequels. That's the line from the third movie. First movie is "This sure beats podracing!" and the second movie has the entire "I hate sand" speech.Zachary Amaranth said:
I don't know. There are so many bad lines it's hard to pick standouts. But that one seemed to fit, so....thebobmaster said:
Jesus, what kind of brungus actually complains about a stormtrooper's race? Fuck those people.
Furthermore, this movie takes place several decades after Episode 6. In the non-canon stuff, at least, the Empire had realized some of its shortcomings, and had actually started to try and address its most glaring issues. I'm not saying that they suddenly became saints, or that Kessel was turned into a Scandinavian-style rehabilitation center, but they were working on it. Besides, the Empire's beef was mostly with non-humans. I figure that if you're more or less human, they'd be okay with you.
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Furthermore, this movie takes place several decades after Episode 6. In the non-canon stuff, at least, the Empire had realized some of its shortcomings, and had actually started to try and address its most glaring issues. I'm not saying that they suddenly became saints, or that Kessel was turned into a Scandinavian-style rehabilitation center, but they were working on it. Besides, the Empire's beef was mostly with non-humans. I figure that if you're more or less human, they'd be okay with you.
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Well, I was too busy being an excited little geekling when watching the trailer to get caught up in this, but I did wonder what was happening there.
There is a possibility he's not actually a stormtrooper but, like luke and han, disguised as one in the scene in question.
However, I personally hope he is a Stormtrooper.
The idea of a soldier, having learned the true darkness behind the imperial propaganda, breaks free and attempts to right the wrongs he was complicit in appeals to me greatly.
The only thing that would have really jarred with the fiction would have been an alien stormtrooper.
The Empire valued useful aliens but only as tools.
They were always a bunch of speciesist shits in everything we've ever seen about them.
Villains to the core.
It's probably already been covered, but the idea that stormtroopers were surviving clone troopers and possibly subsequent batches of the same seems to be likely.
However, the Empire in a position of power would have been able to draw the best from all aspects of the Imperial army, and the idea of some being clones and others being soldiers promoted into the ranks seems likely.
My personal theory (headcanon warning!) was that the original clone sample and facilities were lost when the Emperor took power.
He did forbid cloning in some fiction which makes sense as one of the first things to do in consolidating his power was to deny the weapons he used to seize power to others.
The senate being one.
The jedi being another.
Cloning being on this list makes a lot of sense.
If I remember rightly, there were laws passed against military/assassin grade robots being manufactured by anyone but the empire too.
As such, the necessity to grow his stormtroopers in a jar somewhere would have been lost, as he had the resources and citizens of a newly formed empire to draw on.
Additionally, If the original cloning facilities were lost, then the original master sample may have been too.
Any subsequently cloned stormtroopers would have been copies of copies.
Degradation over time, evidenced by the inaccuracy of later generations of stormtroopers compared to clonetroopers, could have necessitated drawing in recruits from more conventional sources, otherwise he'd end up with an army that couldn't hit a pair of twins dangling off a cable at twenty feet.
There is a possibility he's not actually a stormtrooper but, like luke and han, disguised as one in the scene in question.
However, I personally hope he is a Stormtrooper.
The idea of a soldier, having learned the true darkness behind the imperial propaganda, breaks free and attempts to right the wrongs he was complicit in appeals to me greatly.
The only thing that would have really jarred with the fiction would have been an alien stormtrooper.
The Empire valued useful aliens but only as tools.
They were always a bunch of speciesist shits in everything we've ever seen about them.
Villains to the core.
It's probably already been covered, but the idea that stormtroopers were surviving clone troopers and possibly subsequent batches of the same seems to be likely.
However, the Empire in a position of power would have been able to draw the best from all aspects of the Imperial army, and the idea of some being clones and others being soldiers promoted into the ranks seems likely.
My personal theory (headcanon warning!) was that the original clone sample and facilities were lost when the Emperor took power.
He did forbid cloning in some fiction which makes sense as one of the first things to do in consolidating his power was to deny the weapons he used to seize power to others.
The senate being one.
The jedi being another.
Cloning being on this list makes a lot of sense.
If I remember rightly, there were laws passed against military/assassin grade robots being manufactured by anyone but the empire too.
As such, the necessity to grow his stormtroopers in a jar somewhere would have been lost, as he had the resources and citizens of a newly formed empire to draw on.
Additionally, If the original cloning facilities were lost, then the original master sample may have been too.
Any subsequently cloned stormtroopers would have been copies of copies.
Degradation over time, evidenced by the inaccuracy of later generations of stormtroopers compared to clonetroopers, could have necessitated drawing in recruits from more conventional sources, otherwise he'd end up with an army that couldn't hit a pair of twins dangling off a cable at twenty feet.
You have to be kidding, please tell you're kidding right?Strazdas said:
I've only watched the movies and have some random other info from the internet and even I know that pretty much everything you said was wrong.
I didn't read through all 9 pages to see if this was clarified but was this a joke that went over my head?
Is battlefront 2 that obscure? I must be one of the only people who played through the campaign mode which includes a mission where the new clones haven't gotten order 66 yet so they oppose the empire and so you have to go in and steal the DNA samples to stop the cloning process.
God that was a great campaign.
God that was a great campaign.
As far as movies go when I'm being level headed I'm typically of the opinion that you shouldn't judge till you have more context or have seen the full scene. So I can't really say anything yet, I did get excited though when I realized that John Boyega was the young lead from in Attack the Block.
I dare anyone to find someone genuinely outraged over the black stormtrooper debacle. At worst you'll find people confused about the lore reasons because they thought they were all clones of Fett from the second movie, and at best you can find a couple of youtube comment trolls. This kind of clickbait media outrage is a sham.
Good luck to the actor though.
Good luck to the actor though.
Also, although someone has undoubtably pointed this out already, since this is a SCI-FI story with aliens, the implication in the original trilogy was that the Emperor wasn't a racist, he was a SPECIESIST; Grand Admiral Thrawn was the only non-human to ascend to high rank in the Empire because he was just THAT good. As Terry Pratchett once put it, "black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green".
Well yeah, assuming they didn't just say that all the clones of Jango were eventually killed off and replaced with normal humans as stormtroopers between the trilogies, the entire "army of clones" thing in the prequel trilogy was just a stupid retcon. Hell, before the prequel trilogy came out and fucked everything up, the expanded universe had referred to the infamous "Clone Wars" as a war between the forces of the Republic and the evil "clonemasters".PrinceOfShapeir said:
Yes, the Empire was analogous to the Nazi Party.
No, they were not actually Nazis.
I'd say they were closest to the British Empire. Yes, they were also racist, but not to the point of genocide. Just huge dicks to everyone who made the mistake of not being born White and Pretty.
Which means I apparently share this franchise with a bunch of racist pricks.
No, they were not actually Nazis.
I'd say they were closest to the British Empire. Yes, they were also racist, but not to the point of genocide. Just huge dicks to everyone who made the mistake of not being born White and Pretty.
Which means I apparently share this franchise with a bunch of racist pricks.
Who had an issue with this?
The real problem I had was when they turned all stormtroopers into clones. I far preferred the pre-prequel idea that the clonemasters were an external threat to the Republic and that stormtroopers were always recruited/ conscripted (and probably brainwashed) humans.
Oh well.
The real problem I had was when they turned all stormtroopers into clones. I far preferred the pre-prequel idea that the clonemasters were an external threat to the Republic and that stormtroopers were always recruited/ conscripted (and probably brainwashed) humans.
Oh well.
1) Episode 7 Stormtroopers probably aren't clones of Jango Fett any longer, there might be some of the 501st or other original legions, but most of them are local militia forces. As you can read later Palpatine hated aliens, but he never showed any dislike of different humans, I mean how could he, he was grey. I don't know about you but I don't know many grey humans. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/Emperor_RotJ.png)
2) I still have a small problem with his character, and it isn't his skin color. He doesn't fit what a soldier should be, he looked more like someone freaking out on some kind of drug, not a professional soldier. Give him a proper weapon and put him in a lineup with other Stormtroopers, standing up straight and whatnot and he'd probably look fine, though the entire point of the Stormtrooper armor is to make it look faceless fearless army. Which is kind of broken when you see a stormtrooper freaking out in the desert.
3) Previous posters are correct, during the Emperor's reign he was extremely xenophobic, although he was from Naboo, he really disliked anything that wasn't human, non-humans were traditionally barred from positions of power, and while most of the EU lore isn't in use anymore it is still there, and the Emperor despite his prejudices would give people who did a good job, power, like Admiral Thrawn, (http://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page)
Off-topic - Lightsabers with Crossguards have been in the lore since 2004, they were from EU Comics and Pen-and-Paper Star Wars games. And the Sith is wearing a Mandalorian Mask, to those who aren't familiar with Mandalorians, Jango and Boba Fett (And by extension the clones) were Mandalorians, if they were true Mandalorians or just adopted their culture is unclear. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crossguard_lightsaber)
Further Off-Topic and an Edit - There is a theory going around that the Sith is Revan, for those not aware, Canon Revan was a woman.
2) I still have a small problem with his character, and it isn't his skin color. He doesn't fit what a soldier should be, he looked more like someone freaking out on some kind of drug, not a professional soldier. Give him a proper weapon and put him in a lineup with other Stormtroopers, standing up straight and whatnot and he'd probably look fine, though the entire point of the Stormtrooper armor is to make it look faceless fearless army. Which is kind of broken when you see a stormtrooper freaking out in the desert.
3) Previous posters are correct, during the Emperor's reign he was extremely xenophobic, although he was from Naboo, he really disliked anything that wasn't human, non-humans were traditionally barred from positions of power, and while most of the EU lore isn't in use anymore it is still there, and the Emperor despite his prejudices would give people who did a good job, power, like Admiral Thrawn, (http://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page)
Off-topic - Lightsabers with Crossguards have been in the lore since 2004, they were from EU Comics and Pen-and-Paper Star Wars games. And the Sith is wearing a Mandalorian Mask, to those who aren't familiar with Mandalorians, Jango and Boba Fett (And by extension the clones) were Mandalorians, if they were true Mandalorians or just adopted their culture is unclear. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crossguard_lightsaber)
Further Off-Topic and an Edit - There is a theory going around that the Sith is Revan, for those not aware, Canon Revan was a woman.