Star Wars Episode VIII Gets Teaser And a Cast List

[Jute88]

I think I'm spoiled by Babylon 5, where they have a scene where several warships use mass drivers on a planet from orbit. It was quite the intense scene, for it's more intimate nature.

Oh! They could replace Londo's horrified face with horrified Ren! Ren starts to moan about his actions and Anakin-ghost appears behind calling him a dumbass grandson.

 

[Something Amyss]

Crap, started replying to this shortly after I got the notification. Then my browser crashed, and I forgot about it.

True, I just mean, I found the dread and menace of the fleet of ships, hammering the planet from orbit to be a way more terrifying image, than the way the various Planet Killer weapons operate. They are by most representations, a very distant weapon. So the threat isn't very immediate. It's lightyears away in the case of the Starkiller Base. But to have a shot, where you see all of the Stardestroyers in orbit, and can see them from the ground. And then have dozens of pillar sized energy shots start raining down on a city? I just find that a way more intimidating image than some big floaty ball that doesn't actually do anything itself, It's literally just the landscape for the fights. But the fleet battle in Return of the Jedi? That was awesome. All those cap ships going at it. Just do that, but with the opening of it being them just bombarding the shit out of some planet. It would be more cost effective for the First Order, and if they lost a few ships, they could always bug out. xD

Ironically, the Star Destroyers are supposedly named for their ability to lay waste to entire planets (I'm assuming surface level, or the Death Star would be pointless). Like, theoretically, one Star Destroyer is all it would take to bombard a planet. I guess, I mean we never really see anything like that onscreen.

But yeah, I mean, that would be more terrifying, but Star Wars doesn't really do that. It's all campy pulp adventure with a big budget, which is why I loved the originals and disliked the prequels. I would probably feel like such a scene would be out of place in Star Wars. Whereas Bab 5, it's pretty much a logical extension of their space combat and feels right at home.

I mean, I can understand why you'd like to see it, because I do like it. It's just not what I look for in Star Wars. I do, however, ish they wouldn't effectively have Death Star 3, because it gets tiresome. I like the idea of space fantasy superweapons, but another giant testicle which blows up planets/stars/whatever is just...eh.

Kind of veering OT but also not, the Ace Combat series has had, essentially, a trench run in almost every game. There being a super weapon of some sort is almost a given. I don't know about their reboot, but still. You always come up against this awe-inspring megaweapon, and it's usually different enough to not feel tired. And considering this seems like it's directly inspired by Star Wars, it'd be nice to see the same from Star Wars.

Or just give us a massive space battle. Episode 3 started with a fight that could have been the climax of many movies.

You damn right I support that stuff! If it's not white male, it's crap!

Look, I'm not against white people in films, but what's the reason for them being there? I mean, you can't just plop a straoight white dude into the middle of a science fiction world without some sort of justification. Why? Because...ummm...reasons?

 

[Something Amyss]

Anyhow, It's not really unsubstantiated, you admitted it yourself that there's a stark contrast between the original trilogy and the first movie in this new trilogy + these new casting additions.

You claimed it was pandering. Your only evidence for this is that the cast isn't as white as movies from a decade where it was hard for minorities to get work outside of niche films. There are also more cell phones now than when I was a kid. This isn't evidence of a conspiracy, pandering, or anything olther than there simply being more of them. That's his whole point, too.

Unless you're going to argue that everything should have stayed exactly the same as when it was during the filming of the original trilogy, discrimination and all?

That sort of seems to be the attitude, if not the intent. Things have changed. Even though they've changed because the past was overtly bigoted and minorities were actively kept out, this is clearly a case of ___________ insert bogeyman there.

Well that wouldn't be all THAT bad. Then Rey would actually face a challenge she couldn't beat in the end. Perhaps the villains would even stop being a walking pack of punchlines.

So did you hate Episode IV, or is it only when a woman faces no real challenges that it's a problem?

 

[Something Amyss]

Hah, it's funny because Episode VII had Rey pretty much lose every time it mattered until the end where, spoilers, the protagonists won. Unless you weren't trying to make a joke, in which case it's funny because everyone so intent on complaining about the new movie can't seem to stop themselves from misrepresenting it to do so, and that's just funny to me.

But what about that time when she knew how to fix the Falcon and Han didn't? I mean, that would never happen in the original movies. It's not like Han being a bit clueless about the Falcon was a running thing in Empire or anything!

 

[Something Amyss]

To be fair, that always seems to be the attitude, if not the intent. Whether it's a gay person existing in a fictional world, a woman not designed primarily to give me an erection, or a nonwhite person taking over for a retiring white hero in the exact same way that white people have done so for years, we're supposed to never advance beyond how things were done back when racism, sexism, and homophobia were the explicit rule rather than the implicit one that lots of people angrily deny is actually there at all.

Trust me, I'm on the wrong side of that line a lot. My entire life is a political agenda just by virtue of me existing. The only part of me that's not rubbing it in someone's face is race, and that's only because the Native American half of my ancestry doesn't show. So even then, I'm technically "white passing."

I'm very familiar with how this works in terms of minorities. It's the idea that it's what I'm familiar with, so it can't be wrong. Therefore, if people want it changed, it must be their problem. There's no racism, sexism, or whatever other ism you might mention because if there is, then I have to re-evaluate things and whatnot. I also suspect there's a dash of nostalgia in there. Things were "objectively" better back when there were no blacks or queers or women on TV, and post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Even then the specific thing she knows about is something that was added to the ship by her boss (whose work she was involved in enough to apparently have a place arguing what to even add to the ship) which Han would know little about. She also "fixes" the Falcon in the least technical way possible.

Yeah, I just thought it was dumb on the macro level, too. I sometimes wonder if people complaining even watched the prior movies. "Nobody tells Mad Max what to do!" is another example, but Han having ship problems is pretty much a running thing. And sure, maybe he learned something in 20 years, but the fact is that it's a running element of the prior series and not out of place.

But that's all besides the point that a woman knowing how vehicles work is such a Mary Sue thing to have, especially when added to her being slightly competent at self-defense. I mean she literally has no flaws if she knows how to operate a space ship (until she doesn't) and fight, because that's how female characters just work.

Dude, women can't operate heavy machinery. Don't you understand sexual dimorphism?

It also kills me because Rey is somehow too perfect in a series that has had Anakin blow up a space ship at 8 in a strange ship and Luke not only do what seasoned pilots couldn't, but in the face of Vader. And sure, Han evened up the odds, but that's not unique, either. I often get the impression that these people didn't like Star Wars in the first place. Or never saw the originals. The only major difference between Rey and prior protagonists is that she has boobs. Once you look at all the excuses for the crap they are, the only remaining factor is her lack of a y chromosome. Least, far as I've seen.

 

[happyninja42]

I think I'm spoiled by Babylon 5, where they have a scene where several warships use mass drivers on a planet from orbit. It was quite the intense scene, for it's more intimate nature.

Oh! They could replace Londo's horrified face with horrified Ren! Ren starts to moan about his actions and Anakin-ghost appears behind calling him a dumbass grandson.

That would actually be a pretty good scene. Though I think Ren's turn to the light is going to be a more personal, intimate moment, not something from orbit like that. Though they might use it as "the first step" towards the light, though he's already conflicted. But yeah, that would be a cool image.

Crap, started replying to this shortly after I got the notification. Then my browser crashed, and I forgot about it.

True, I just mean, I found the dread and menace of the fleet of ships, hammering the planet from orbit to be a way more terrifying image, than the way the various Planet Killer weapons operate. They are by most representations, a very distant weapon. So the threat isn't very immediate. It's lightyears away in the case of the Starkiller Base. But to have a shot, where you see all of the Stardestroyers in orbit, and can see them from the ground. And then have dozens of pillar sized energy shots start raining down on a city? I just find that a way more intimidating image than some big floaty ball that doesn't actually do anything itself, It's literally just the landscape for the fights. But the fleet battle in Return of the Jedi? That was awesome. All those cap ships going at it. Just do that, but with the opening of it being them just bombarding the shit out of some planet. It would be more cost effective for the First Order, and if they lost a few ships, they could always bug out. xD

Ironically, the Star Destroyers are supposedly named for their ability to lay waste to entire planets (I'm assuming surface level, or the Death Star would be pointless). Like, theoretically, one Star Destroyer is all it would take to bombard a planet. I guess, I mean we never really see anything like that onscreen.

But yeah, I mean, that would be more terrifying, but Star Wars doesn't really do that. It's all campy pulp adventure with a big budget, which is why I loved the originals and disliked the prequels. I would probably feel like such a scene would be out of place in Star Wars. Whereas Bab 5, it's pretty much a logical extension of their space combat and feels right at home.

I mean, I can understand why you'd like to see it, because I do like it. It's just not what I look for in Star Wars. I do, however, ish they wouldn't effectively have Death Star 3, because it gets tiresome. I like the idea of space fantasy superweapons, but another giant testicle which blows up planets/stars/whatever is just...eh.

Yeah that would be what Star Destroyer is supposed to represent, that the ship itself is that powerful, but we never see it. xD And I agree, I mean I get why they do the "big bad superweapon" story element, because then you can have that one dramatic moment where with a single badass action, the hero saves the day. One photon torpedo down the right pipe, and boom. I guess I would just like something more like Return of the Jedi's space battle. Yeah they were still going for the Death Star's core to blow it up, but before that, they had to survive the entire Imperial fleet in that sector. So they had this intense, protracted battle with multiple capital ships. It just felt like an epic, final battle of two galactic size powers, duking it out for dominance of the galaxy. It was intense, and I remember as a kid thinking "Shit, even if they destroy the Death Star, the Empire could still be a major threat and kill them all if enough of those cap ships survive! This is intense!" And my little 9 year old brain was on fire for the potential outcomes. Having a handful of fighters flying around shooting each other doesn't feel like an epic final battle to me. Hell, simply based on the amount of ships in the air, that fight over Maz's Temple was more intense than the final run in Force Awakens. Though I think that was partly because that fight emulated the RotJ fight. Air battle, ground battle, and semi-lightsaber duel (not much of one I admit, mostly Ren chasing Rey around, being scary).

You damn right I support that stuff! If it's not white male, it's crap!

Look, I'm not against white people in films, but what's the reason for them being there? I mean, you can't just plop a straoight white dude into the middle of a science fiction world without some sort of justification. Why? Because...ummm...reasons?

Because white penis is the best penis!....I might be biased on that front! But really, I mean, it's a galaxy, and in theory, the humans represented are from dozens, if not hundreds of different planets, in different solar systems, and have been so for centuries, if not thousands of years. The idea that they would differentiate based on environmental pressures, and look different is fairly silly. Now of course, we can't find actors that don't look like anything but Earther humans, for obvious reasons, but it's not unreasonable to assume that the different cultures might have more dominant representations on them. That this planet, might look more "asian", simply because of the genetic makeup and drift for that planet. And the other system might look more black due to drift and pressures. So yeah, a diverse galactic culture wouldn't look terribly homogeneous in my mind. But hey, what do I know, I'm not a geneticist. Perhaps with cross breeding due to intergalactic travel mixing gene pools, everyone would be white as Luke Skywalker. *shrugs* But I doubt it.

 

[happyninja42]

Hah, it's funny because Episode VII had Rey pretty much lose every time it mattered until the end where, spoilers, the protagonists won. Unless you weren't trying to make a joke, in which case it's funny because everyone so intent on complaining about the new movie can't seem to stop themselves from misrepresenting it to do so, and that's just funny to me.

But what about that time when she knew how to fix the Falcon and Han didn't? I mean, that would never happen in the original movies. It's not like Han being a bit clueless about the Falcon was a running thing in Empire or anything!

It's also not like Luke didn't fail at most things he did up until the dramatic end. Episode 4, he was mostly just running around being shocked by the big wide universe. Then, at the end, he actually does something heroic. In Empire, he again doesn't do too much that's impressive, and the things he does do, are actually more dramatic than Rey.

Though that brings up an issue with me, though it's off topic, about the people who say that Fin can't be a jedi, because he got his ass kicked in a saber duel with a superior opponent. This always seems odd, because I mean, he had zero training but he still held his own for a decent amount of time. Yeah he fought defensively, but so did Luke for most of the Empire battle. Vader was just toying with his ass for that entire battle. And Luke got one lucky hit in, on Vader's shoulder, which mostly just annoyed him, and then, after doing a looong fighting retreat, he gets horribly maimed, and has to be rescued by other people. Well guess what? That's pretty much point for point the fight of Fin and Ren. He even got a single hit in. And Luke actually had training, and he still got his ass kicked. So yeah, I still stand by Fin is likely going to be a jedi before all is said and done, and possibly Po too, I mean we've got several examples of how someone who is force-sensitive displays uncanny skill with flying, and they took a lot of effort to show us how crazy good Po is at flying.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Well that wouldn't be all THAT bad. Then Rey would actually face a challenge she couldn't beat in the end. Perhaps the villains would even stop being a walking pack of punchlines.

Hah, it's funny because Episode VII had Rey pretty much lose every time it mattered until the end where, spoilers, the protagonists won. Unless you weren't trying to make a joke, in which case it's funny because everyone so intent on complaining about the new movie can't seem to stop themselves from misrepresenting it to do so, and that's just funny to me.

Hah. That's funny because you think I'm misrepresenting crap. She only lost ONCE in that movie and that was to Ren on that planet The Talking orange was on. (Possibly twice with that first time she was negotiating food prices.)

Attacked by the remnant fighters? Hops in the galaxy's most awkwardly designed ship and pulls off badass stunts in it after a rough take off. (I STILL stand Poe was supposed to still be there originally.)

Accidentally unleash a bunch of monsters? Monsters eat up all the bad guys, and she manages to save everyone on her own till they can escape.

Then we see her pulling off tricks with the Force that Luke couldn't manage until episodes 5 and 6 with the mind trick and force pull. (And don't pull up the theory that she was one of Luke's padawans. Even if she is, which I'll admit is VERY likely, she was left on that desert planet at what looked to be a young age. Possibly not much older than the younglings in the prequels and all THEY could do was block blaster shots.)

I'm willing to give her the knowhow on how to fix the Falcon. Given all her time around junk and determining what it does so she can bring back the best stuff for more eats, I'd be more amazed if she DIDN'T pick up mechanical skills. I'm willing to give her good combat abilities, she most likely needed to know how to fight just to survive that planet. I'm even willing to give her that second round with Darth Linkin Park due to the man's injuries. (Though the Force Second wind still kind of killed it for me.) But it still doesn't change the fact that she pretty much tears through most anything the plot sends her way with very little effort.

Also, will you and Amyss please stop assuming the hatred towards Rey is because she's a girl? Do you have ANY idea how many beloved female characters there were in the old EU? At all? Aurra Sing, Bastila Shawn, The Dark Woman, Asajj Ventress, Mara Freaking Jade, Shaak Ti, Jaina Solo, Darth Traya, and MANY others. You know what all these characters have in common beyond their genders? None of them inspire NEARLY as much division as dear old Rey.

Seriously, just stop assuming people hate Rey because of sexism. All you are doing is proving you don't know CRAP about this series, and it's honestly embarrassing to watch.

 

[happyninja42]

Accidentally unleash a bunch of monsters? Monsters eat up all the bad guys, and she manages to save everyone on her own till they can escape.

By "accidentally" you of course mean that she meant to do something completely different and fucked up. But I guess managing to salvage your fuck up by closing a door to save your friend counts as a success?

Interestingly, this is pretty much the exact same thing that Leia did in New Hope. "Oh shit, we're trapped by Stormtroopers because Han is terrible at bullshitting people!" *grabs blaster, shoots vent* "Into the garbage shoot flyboy!" Solves immediate problem, but this leads to a new one. One scene people consider a cool bit of proactive decision making on Leia's part, the other is "Omgurg she's a Mary Sue who fixes things even when she fucks up things!" Nevermind that this is a pretty staple storytelling tool, to maintain tension while moving the scene to the next major location. Solve Problem A, leads to Problem B over on this location. Solve Problem B, leads to Problem C in this location. Hey look, you've transported your cast to the next major location, while maintaining dramatic tension the whole time. What a concept!

Then we see her pulling off tricks with the Force that Luke couldn't manage until episodes 5 and 6 with the mind trick and force pull. (And don't pull up the theory that she was one of Luke's padawans. Even if she is, which I'll admit is VERY likely, she was left on that desert planet at what looked to be a young age. Possibly not much older than the younglings in the prequels and all THEY could do was block blaster shots.)

All we SAW them do was block blaster shots. We also saw, in Revenge of the Sith, a pre-teen Padawan do force leaps, black blaster fire in an active combat situation, force push clone troopers, and cut a few of them down. That fact that the only scene we get of those children doesn't mean that's the only thing they knew how to do. I mean if you want to go with that angle, the Clone Wars cartoon showed children their age doing all kinds of powerful force abilities. So yeah, there's precedence for it.

She could pull off Force tricks after being told how the Force and all the stories she's heard about it were real and basically experiencing someone else using the tricks on her. Considering that the Force is a combination of inherent capability and your state of mind, her being able to use the tricks she's just seen isn't that amazing. Add in that her backstory's a mystery and that she very likely has training (likely more training than Luke ever received) and you have someone capable of using the Force sometimes.

Not to mention it's established in New Hope that the Force "can control your actions." I don't know how people keep forgetting this fact, that if you let the Force into you, it can allow you to do things you couldn't do on your own Why? Did you suddenly develop muscles and reflexes that let you do these inhuman things? No, it's the freaking Force flowing through you. You're just the tool of the Force at that moment, not entirely in control of what's going on. Everyone seems to think it's just a tool, totally at the whim of the user, and it's simply not, and this is something that's been established from the very beginning. I mean shit, Luke learned how to block blaster fire with what, 2 minutes of encouragement from Ben? He didn't teach him any fucking techniques, he just said to "let go of your conscious self, and act on extinct" and Luke still fucked it up. The he had to be reminded to let the force flow through him. And holy shit! Now he can do it! That's not training, that's "stop getting in your own damn way, and let the Force into you to do it for you." Which is exactly what Rey was doing.

I'm willing to give her the knowhow on how to fix the Falcon. Given all her time around junk and determining what it does so she can bring back the best stuff for more eats, I'd be more amazed if she DIDN'T pick up mechanical skills. I'm willing to give her good combat abilities, she most likely needed to know how to fight just to survive that planet. I'm even willing to give her that second round with Darth Linkin Park due to the man's injuries. (Though the Force Second wind still kind of killed it for me.) But it still doesn't change the fact that she pretty much tears through most anything the plot sends her way with very little effort.

She "tears through" two thugs, two TIE Fighters, a weak-minded adult child soldier, and a heavily injured and mentally unstable Dark Jedi after she is able to tap into the Force. She struggled a bit with the thugs, took a while to actually outmaneuver the TIE Fighters, took three tries to mind trick the Stormtrooper, and got her ass handed to her by Kylo Ren up until the very end of her last encounter with his heavily wounded and unstable self. Clearly the stuff of an unstoppable force of the plot.

*Force high-five* Yep, you just saved me typing out another paragraph.

Also, will you and Amyss please stop assuming the hatred towards Rey is because she's a girl? Do you have ANY idea how many beloved female characters there were in the old EU? At all? Aurra Sing, Bastila Shawn, The Dark Woman, Asajj Ventress, Mara Freaking Jade, Shaak Ti, Jaina Solo, Darth Traya, and MANY others. You know what all these characters have in common beyond their genders? None of them inspire NEARLY as much division as dear old Rey.

Also, none of them are the new protagonist and hero of the newest Star Wars trilogy. Though if you'd like people to stop assuming that the complaints are basically rooted in her gender, you could try to find some that can't be applied directly to the last two protagonists of the last two trilogies. Unless you're going to just say that all three of them are shit and divisive and controversial and Mary Sues and so on, because then you'll at least be consistent.

Not to mention that many people flat out say that Rey is just pandering to the SJW's, to make the feminists happy, or some such bullshit. I'm paraphrasing a bit I admit, but I've seen the fucking posts in this forum for weeks, and they clearly tie her gender, to reasons why she's a terrible character. Not everyone sure, but a significant enough portion that it's a valid counter-point to bring up.

Seriously, just stop assuming people hate Rey because of sexism. All you are doing is proving you don't know CRAP about this series, and it's honestly embarrassing to watch.

Yes, I don't know crap about the series because I'm able to find complaints about Rey to be shallow and inconsistent when they happen not to be leveled against her much more competent and powerful probably-dad and probably-grandpa. Simply saying "I'm not sexist, look at all these different female characters in a different context that I'm not complaining" does not somehow make your argument rooted in an egalitarian mindset.

Stating people have a dislike for Rey because of her gender has zero bearing on knowledge of the series. That is a single issue in a huge discussion topic, and to say that someone doesn't know crap about the entire thing due to that one talking point is silly and naive. Just stop

 

[Something Amyss]

Quite honestly, if I was actually part of a single minority group that had to deal with issues of bigotry I have no idea how constantly agitated I'd be. I mean, the abstract concept of it alone bothers me more than enough. Whenever people talk about an angry minority or a pushy gay person or whatever other resistance-to-progress-hiding-as-an-appeal-to-manners people trot out I just think about how utterly patient and restrained someone has to be to just vent about it on twitter or tumblr occasionally.

Well, here's the thing. It may not be restraint. It takes very little provocation for people to get very hostile to minorities. I've got my ass kicked for being a nerd, or for being a smartass, but I've had people straight-up try and murder me for being queer. No pun intended. I've modified my behaviour and learned to pick my battles because of absolutely how little it takes for someone to want to kill me. Like, you know, existing. And as much as a lot of people don't want to hear it, we live in a world where offending the straight white dude is a dangerous proposition. It's infuriating, but if you've experienced the consequences of being one or more minorities in this culture, you might be equally as "restrained" and not necessarily out of actual restraint.

I sort of suspect that's why there tends to be such a huge gap ion minority groups between the rank-and-file and the extremists. The danger is so prevalent that you're not going to see a lot of moderates taking huge risks, so you jump from moderate to "mad as hell." At the same time, there seems to be no way to soft serve it enough, no slight so minor as to avoid offending people. Hell, that's why we're having this convo in a Star Wars thread. They now have two women and two people of colour--and one of them's the same person--and this was worth boycotting the first movie and complaining about pandering in the second. I mean, sure, that's about on par with Episodes IV-VI, but I guess Vader doesn't count because only Vader's voice actor was black?

Well you didn't see any racism or homophobia back when you never saw black people or gay people which means that it didn't exist. Which, obviously, means that those dastardly SJWs who want minority people to exist are really to blame for racism and just general bigotry.

Exactly. Only sick people take medicine. If I don't take my medicine, then I'm not sick.

See I barely remember the smaller parts of the original trilogy (I don't think I've ever even watched all of VI) so all I know is that the Falcon is just consistently a piece of crap that is also the best ship to have ever been created, which kind of implies that Han's shit and maintenance.

Pretty much. Though I personally like to think the reason the Falcon is so successful is they take one look at it and underestimate it.

Though in fairness, anyone who's owned an old car can probably tell you about the maintenance it requires. Still, Han's so sure everything's working. He's a cocky bastard, which is part of his charm, but it also makes sense that he wouldn't necessarily be the most thorough mechanic. He strikes me as the kind of guy to shoot first and ask questions later. Just ask Greedo. Oh...right...whoops.

To grant an incredible amount of undeserved fairness to such people, part of their problem might have to do with the different ways in which they're supposed perfection is displayed. Luke and Anakin become veteran pilots and blow up battle stations their first time in a new ship, and Rey wields a lightsaber competently. Unless there's another planet gun, Rey will pretty much never have that accomplishment of single-handedly taking out a space thing the second she steps into a ship, but to some people going straight to a competent melee fighter whose able to manipulate the odd broken-minded child soldier is probably seen as her advancing ahead a grade rather than her missing out on a massive achievement.

This being Star Wars, I'd be willing to bet there will be another planet gun. And I bet if she did hop in a starfighter and blow it up, the people complaining would have more of a tantrum, not less. So yeah, I agree the fairness is almost certainly undeserved.

But you're also talking a woman who doesn't so much beat Ren as battle him to a stand-still. While he's been injured twice recently. After a long time with what seems like no real challenge. I don't think the message should be that Rey's OP, it should be "holy shit, imagine how badass this guy is going to be when he gets back to fighting shape."

Yeah that would be what Star Destroyer is supposed to represent, that the ship itself is that powerful, but we never see it. xD And I agree, I mean I get why they do the "big bad superweapon" story element, because then you can have that one dramatic moment where with a single badass action, the hero saves the day. One photon torpedo down the right pipe, and boom. I guess I would just like something more like Return of the Jedi's space battle. Yeah they were still going for the Death Star's core to blow it up, but before that, they had to survive the entire Imperial fleet in that sector. So they had this intense, protracted battle with multiple capital ships. It just felt like an epic, final battle of two galactic size powers, duking it out for dominance of the galaxy. It was intense, and I remember as a kid thinking "Shit, even if they destroy the Death Star, the Empire could still be a major threat and kill them all if enough of those cap ships survive! This is intense!" And my little 9 year old brain was on fire for the potential outcomes. Having a handful of fighters flying around shooting each other doesn't feel like an epic final battle to me. Hell, simply based on the amount of ships in the air, that fight over Maz's Temple was more intense than the final run in Force Awakens. Though I think that was partly because that fight emulated the RotJ fight. Air battle, ground battle, and semi-lightsaber duel (not much of one I admit, mostly Ren chasing Rey around, being scary).

Unfortunately, Stormtroopers are union, and they knock off if the boss is killed. Union rules.

No, but I agree. There was a massive threat. And part of it was simply that the Rebels weren't expecting it. It was supposed to be their fleet versus a semi-operational Death Ball mk 2. One "it's a trap!" later, and they're in a struggle they weren't ready for, in a desperate struggle. I love the part where they order the smaller ships to go nose-to-nose with the capital ships, because it shows how ultimately desperate it is. And now, even if they survive long enough for the shields to go down, they still have to fight unexpected forces to attack the core.

Because white penis is the best penis!....I might be biased on that front!

But really, I mean, it's a galaxy, and in theory, the humans represented are from dozens, if not hundreds of different planets, in different solar systems, and have been so for centuries, if not thousands of years. The idea that they would differentiate based on environmental pressures, and look different is fairly silly. Now of course, we can't find actors that don't look like anything but Earther humans, for obvious reasons, but it's not unreasonable to assume that the different cultures might have more dominant representations on them. That this planet, might look more "asian", simply because of the genetic makeup and drift for that planet. And the other system might look more black due to drift and pressures. So yeah, a diverse galactic culture wouldn't look terribly homogeneous in my mind. But hey, what do I know, I'm not a geneticist. Perhaps with cross breeding due to intergalactic travel mixing gene pools, everyone would be white as Luke Skywalker. *shrugs* But I doubt it.

It would make sense that humans would settle planets similar to Earth in the first place. But given how diverse the skin tones are on this one planet, I would imagine that we would see a lot of diversity on other planets. I mean, there might be the "Asian planet," but I imagine a lot of planets would be cosmopolitan. Of course, it depends on a lot of factors, and it's fantasy.

I guess what I'm saying is there's room for whites.

...as long as they're not too in my face.

It's also not like Luke didn't fail at most things he did up until the dramatic end. Episode 4, he was mostly just running around being shocked by the big wide universe. Then, at the end, he actually does something heroic. In Empire, he again doesn't do too much that's impressive, and the things he does do, are actually more dramatic than Rey.

Well yeah, but its more addressing the argument that Rey is "too perfect." It's more that if Rey is too perfect or too good, Luke must be as well because what Rey does isn't too out of keeping with what Luke did. And to an extent what Anakin did.

And tying in with your comment about Finn, the Force has been seen to guide people. The primary trait we do tend to see in our heroes is piloting ability, but it makes perfect sense that it could allow people to do things above their skill level (since lightsabers are supposed to be tricky), and hell. The fact that the Force seems like luck sometimes in-universe led to the fan theory that Han was a Force sensitive. Lei's also had at least implied bouts of intuition by the time Luke reaches out to her in Empire, and Qui-Gon believes they ended up on Tatooine for a reason other than bad storytelling. Is this religious zealotry? Maybe. But it does set a tone.

Hell, one could even argue the Force tried to warn the Jedi of their impending doom, but they weren't listening. Was that Lucas' intent? I don't know. But it's at least arguable because the Force appears to intervene a lot. At least with main characters.

 

[Jute88]

I think I'm spoiled by Babylon 5, where they have a scene where several warships use mass drivers on a planet from orbit. It was quite the intense scene, for it's more intimate nature.

Oh! They could replace Londo's horrified face with horrified Ren! Ren starts to moan about his actions and Anakin-ghost appears behind calling him a dumbass grandson.

That would actually be a pretty good scene. Though I think Ren's turn to the light is going to be a more personal, intimate moment, not something from orbit like that. Though they might use it as "the first step" towards the light, though he's already conflicted. But yeah, that would be a cool image.

I was joking, but the more I think about it, the more I think it would actually be a nice twist to Ren's personal journey. And yeah, that kid's definitely turning to the light side, the signs are already there. And Anakin would be a perfect mentor for him grow and learn about the Force.

 

[Something Amyss]

Also, will you and Amyss please stop assuming the hatred towards Rey is because she's a girl?

Just as soon as people come up with some actual reasons to hate her that don't apply to people like Luke and Anakin. Or whining specifically about political correctness, SJWs, and pandering. Because that's still literally a thing.

 

[spartandude]

Would somebody please explain to me why not having most of the cast being White Straight Men is automatically pandering and why it's bad?

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Y'know, I could've gone into more argument here, but there's only one part of LifeCharacter's big post, but there's only one area that really drew my ire.

Also, none of them are the new protagonist and hero of the newest Star Wars trilogy.

So, you're gonna say to my face that if any of the beloved women of the EU was the lead character for the new trilogy, most of whom were the leads in their own novels, comics, and videogames with nary a complaint, that would somehow inspire legions of sexist nerds to descend on her like they did Rey? freaking REALLY!?

Good lord, I don't even think I have to go on here. But I will.

Just as soon as people come up with some actual reasons to hate her that don't apply to people like Luke and Anakin. Or whining specifically about political correctness, SJWs, and pandering. Because that's still literally a thing.

Oh yes, because Luke and Anakin are SUCH sues. Remember that time Luke pulled off the mind trick in episode 4 after watching Obi-Wan do it once? Oh wait, he never did that till episode 6 and training.

Well remember how Anakin was beloved by EVERYONE he met? Oh wait, the Jedi never really stopped busting his chops, and Palpatine was obviously manipulating him.

Well remember Rey's character flaws? The one that got her captured by the remnant, giving Finn a reason to stick around and allowing them to blow up the Starkiller? Oh wait, Anakin's fear of loss lead directly to his ruin and dragging the entire Empire into being and Luke's hotheadedness lead to Vader kicking his ass 5 ways till Sunday.

Well remember how Luke and Anakin came out of their first fight with a sith untouched and unscarred? Oh wait, both lost their hands and were utterly thrashed. Heck, the second Sith Luke fought would've effortlessly killed him without Vader stepping in.

Well remember how Luke single handily blew up the Death Star with a shot only HE could accomplish? Oh wait, Luke was nearly killed twice in that battle, having to be saved by Han and Wedge, and it was a difficult shot but not impossible, and even then Luke stated that he'd made such shots before back home.

Seriously, the only one of these two who even APPROACHES Sue would be Anakin, and even then his character flaws keep him from crossing that particular threshold.

Would somebody please explain to me why not having most of the cast being White Straight Men is automatically pandering and why it's bad?

It's not automatically pandering, but it tends to be a bit of a sign of it. As to why it's bad, it's mostly because writers tend to be pretty lazy with this sort of thing. It's called Tokenism. Basically, they include characters who are gay (for example) and then base most of their personality around that rather than just making it part of the character. So you end up with a gay character who just won't stop talking about the fact they're gay, and will bring it up whenever a window of opportunity presents itself.

Basically, rather than give us interesting characters who happen to be minorities, they give us characters who, if it wasn't for their sexuality, gender, or skin tone, are basically props so something can look more inclusive than it actually is.