Jove said:
Delsana said:
Jove said:
Delsana said:
Jove said:
Delsana said:
Jove said:
Pre ordered the collectors edition months ago and can't wait...but Skyrim is holding all my SWTOR hype away for the moment. I loved the beta, but now I'm just going to play Skyrim until it comes out.
Damn I feel so damn lucky. I went from Dark Souls...Skyrim...Now SWTOR. Im the RPG King! XD
I'm not sure Dark Souls can be called an RPG... doing that would open a bag of worms that could start labeling almost everything as "RPG" just because of class mechanics... Hello RPG Modern Warfare.
Did you do Deus Ex? That's a type of RPG.
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No Thanksgiving beta or early access for you?
I was going to take your post seriously until I saw you calling Dark Souls not an RPG and calling human revolution one. There both RPGs but its laughable that Dark Souls is as RPG as you can get when human revolution is basically gears of war 3 meets splinter cell. But both are great games never the less.
I got the email for thanksgiving beta access but again, won't do it because of Skyrim. But I will do early access
I still disagree that Dark Souls is an RPG, all it has is a basic RPG and class mechanic system, which would allow far too many things to be called RPG's if it was labeled one as well.
As for Deus Ex, its current iteration is definitely RPG-style if you look at it.
If I look at it? Ok let me try.
What...in the blue hell kind of rebuttal is that?! If I look at Deus Ex Human Revolution, it's definitly an RPG...but Dark Souls is not an RPG because it has ALL the RPG mechanics in it, therefore, it is not an RPG...Look I'm not usually this type of guy but because you have the worst defense for your argument I have ever seen...
YOU DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE! DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES...NOT...COMPUTE!
It wasn't a defense. I tend to learn things, find they're true, and then make the poor assumption that other people found that out too. So here it is:
In game design, Dark Souls is not an RPG, it fits the characteristics of another genre far too much, in essence it can have mechanics but if the style focuses on another thing, then it is that instead. Kind of like an override. Dark Souls is an adventure. You could call it a thriller adventure to be more accurate. In all honesty though, you could make an argument that it is an entirely different genre.
Wow...If Escapist allowed posters to have sigs...this would be it. And I don't mean that in a good way. And what's worse here is I can't even be mad because you seem like a nice poster here...your head is just not in the right place
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What a shame. (Dark Souls not an RPG...hehe can't wait to hear the laughs from people at work haha).
It's not an RPG, the guy your laughing at is right, though he's wrong about the specifics. Deus-Ex is not an RPG either. The term is heavily mis-used, largely for marketing purposes.
What makes an RPG an RPG has to do with the prescence of statistics and how they determine success or failur rather than the abillities of the player. In Dark Souls or Deus Ex there are stats, but they largely just make things easier with the primary determining factor being the skill of the player rather than that of the character. People are beating "Dark Souls" and "Demons Souls" using nothing but unleveled characters with defauly equipment through their reflexs and mastering the game patterns, people even made let's play type demonstrations of this with Demon's Souls.
To be an RPG the game has to involve indirect control, and more of an expression of intent. While this does not HAVE to be turn based, that's typically the way it's achieved. Basically saying "my character attacks" and then having the numbers and stats determine the outcome rather than your abillity to directly control the game and determine the outcome by say lining up the sword and swinging it yourself with the game's controls.
A lot of people like to argue the definition of "role playing" and what it means to "play a role" but in doing so miss the point entirely since by definition nearly everything would be an RPG. You have to understand where the term came from to put it into context.
RPGs are the offspring of wargames, where people in colleges and such would use statistics and dice (to represent chance) to refight historical battles as a learning exercise. This lead to people using those mechanics to engage in battles of their own creation... say changing the details of the Battle of Waterloo to see how things might have turned out differant with differant positioning or unit compositions, to total fantasy with people coming up with systems for armies from their favoriate fantasy novels so you could say have knights fighting orcs.
As time went on the scale of such combat became reduced for some people and instead of dealing with massive armies (which was expensive and time consuming) they worked on skirmishes with smaller groups of troops, which lead an an increased focus on individual equipment. From that sprung the idea of people simulating personal combat purely through statistics... then fantasy got involved to create enviroments for those battles to take place in.
The first RPG games were just simulations by hardcore nerds who thought it was awesome to be able to mathematically simulate a sword fight. Just the fact that they could do this was the thrill. Things like storylines and explanations as to why the fights were taking place, the creatin of fantasy worlds for these adventures, treasure and the enhancement of gear, these were all added in later.
The term "Role playing" comes to specify the players controlling a single unit or role, as opposed to a unit of troops or army.
At any rate, these things became more story based and complicated, and it's inevitable that things moved from paper and pencils into computers that could handle the work, especially given the brainiacs that were doing this originally were also among the first serious computer geeks.
Truthfully despite the label there are very few RPGs made due to the way the gaming market has changed and gone casual. Your typical player nowadays wants to do something himself as opposed to deal with things through an intentional disconnect. The differance between say playing football yourself, and just making the plays for other people and hoping they can pull it off.
Your typical "Final Fantasy" game is an RPG, not because of the story, but because you tell a character "attack" and then the computer makes them attack and handles all the work, the success or failure, and the degree of that success or failure. You did nothing but issue the command. In Demon's Souls for example you don't tell your character to dodge an attack or swing his sword, you actually do these things with the controls themselves, while the stats in the game might change how much damage your doing (or taking) they are secondary and don't determine the actions or gameplay on a fundemental level.
See, the idea in an RPG is that a clumsy person could take on the role of a super-agile and coordinated swashbuckler, and he would do things just by me saying I want him to try and do them. In comparison in say Deus-Ex, or Demon's Souls, how agile my stats or implants say my character is, if I don't fiddle the controls just right my character is going to plummet off a catwalk because it's about me, and the game doesn't care how agile my character is. In an RPG I'd select the option and the computer would tell me if my character made it, or I'd tell the GM and he'd say ask me what my character's agility score was and whether or not it was high enough. In a PNP RPG dice might be involved to represent the role of chance, such as whether there is a gust of wind or a draft right as my character is crossing, the catwalk snaps, or any one of a million things that could result in some degree of failure. In a PNP RPG the higher the character's stats the less likely something would go wrong (or if something fir for flavor that he would deal with it), it's the GM's embellishment that makes these games live in describing the success or failure, and why and trying to make it exciting. In many cases if you succeed or something like that the GM would tell you something happened, but you made it anyway if you made the roll.
