Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Delsana]

Last weekend was my first time with it. Excellent dialogue branches and decisions on missions, though the third dialogue branch is too often a rather abrupt 'RAWRAWR I'll kill you!!' option that would only make sense if you were a cartoon villain and/or Sith. Definitely a selling point if they can keep that up all the way to level 50. I also liked the companions and colour-coordinated drops to help you avoid trash.

Bounty Hunter was my favourite of the classes I tried, but that's partly because it's hard to target individual enemies in combat when they're moving, and Tab-targeting is unreliable at melee distance.

Bounty Hunter also gave me the only group quest I had difficulty with, the Sith warship battle after departing the starter world. We had a party of four with one representing each of the Empire's base classes. It was probably the crowning moment of awesome for my playtest, even if we died a lot to the bosses. When you're alone in the field on the other hand, the quick enemy respawn rate can catch you off guard sometimes.

Dunno if I'll get it right away come launch day, but when I do I'll be starting Bounty Hunter, just have to get into the right mindset for it.

Not even I liked the RAWR evil lines, but to be honest, that was the only way I could shock anyone, and I liked to open up conversations with a nice shock to show them what I was willing to do if they tried to toy with me. Sadly that usually led to more resistant targets which makes no sense since you're not all that resistant (99% of the time at least) when you've just been electrocuted. Still, I enjoyed it, though I didn't like how some good choices were actually dark and how the best dark choices turned out to be LS, which was just dumb (not because of plot, but because of poor wording or imagination, but this was relatively uncommon in my experience) in my eyes. In any case, I think they'll do well and I'm excited for future chapters that are added as content additions.

Don't forget about swtor.com/tester you might be in the thanksgiving weekend test.

 

[Zing]

We're talking about the icons on the right, not on the left. The tiny ones that are spam-tastic.

I just recalled that your taskbar is a shade of red and while a nice looking shade of red, it is still the abysmal color known as red.

I don't really find them spammy. I actually don't like hiding them with an arrow, they all serve as quick access to vital drivers/programs.

There is a reason for the red task bar, believe it or not. It matches my theme:

Are we done judging my desktop now? ;D

 

[Delsana]

We're talking about the icons on the right, not on the left. The tiny ones that are spam-tastic.

I just recalled that your taskbar is a shade of red and while a nice looking shade of red, it is still the abysmal color known as red.

I don't really find them spammy. I actually don't like hiding them with an arrow, they all serve as quick access to vital drivers/programs.

There is a reason for the red task bar, believe it or not. It matches my theme:

Are we done judging my desktop now? ;D

But didn't you just artificially change what the theme was? Because that shirt was NOT actually red and nor did it have any red ON IT. It was a DIFFERENT color. So you butchered the colors. <.<.

Man do I abhor the color red.

No, we will NEVER be done with such judgments.

In any case, what is a VITAL driver? The drivers work on their own, lol. From what I can tell, most of those programs / icons are not needed to be shown, in fact, Microsoft Security Essentials most certainly DOES NOT, nor does Steam if you've already got "Steam" as an icon over to the left with the big kids.

 

[Zing]

We're talking about the icons on the right, not on the left. The tiny ones that are spam-tastic.

I just recalled that your taskbar is a shade of red and while a nice looking shade of red, it is still the abysmal color known as red.

I don't really find them spammy. I actually don't like hiding them with an arrow, they all serve as quick access to vital drivers/programs.

There is a reason for the red task bar, believe it or not. It matches my theme:

Are we done judging my desktop now? ;D

But didn't you just artificially change what the theme was? Because that shirt was NOT actually red and nor did it have any red ON IT. It was a DIFFERENT color. So you butchered the colors. <.<.

Man do I abhor the color red.

No, we will NEVER be done with such judgments.

In any case, what is a VITAL driver? The drivers work on their own, lol. From what I can tell, most of those programs / icons are not needed to be shown, in fact, Microsoft Security Essentials most certainly DOES NOT, nor does Steam if you've already got "Steam" as an icon over to the left with the big kids.

Haha, good catch! Yes it scrolls between that and

Spoiler

Admittedly it doesn't fit as well with the red, but i'm lazy.

By vital, I mean drivers that I access frequently. And I access MSE a lot, to initiate scans and scan items. Also the right-click menu on that steam icon is better than the icon on the left, just sayin'. Same goes for my audio options(used to switch between headset/speakers), Network options for obvious reasons etc

 

[Delsana]

We're talking about the icons on the right, not on the left. The tiny ones that are spam-tastic.

I just recalled that your taskbar is a shade of red and while a nice looking shade of red, it is still the abysmal color known as red.

I don't really find them spammy. I actually don't like hiding them with an arrow, they all serve as quick access to vital drivers/programs.

There is a reason for the red task bar, believe it or not. It matches my theme:

Are we done judging my desktop now? ;D

But didn't you just artificially change what the theme was? Because that shirt was NOT actually red and nor did it have any red ON IT. It was a DIFFERENT color. So you butchered the colors. <.<.

Man do I abhor the color red.

No, we will NEVER be done with such judgments.

In any case, what is a VITAL driver? The drivers work on their own, lol. From what I can tell, most of those programs / icons are not needed to be shown, in fact, Microsoft Security Essentials most certainly DOES NOT, nor does Steam if you've already got "Steam" as an icon over to the left with the big kids.

Haha, good catch! Yes it scrolls between that and

Spoiler

Admittedly it doesn't fit as well with the red, but i'm lazy.

By vital, I mean drivers that I access frequently. And I access MSE a lot, to initiate scans and scan items. Also the right-click menu on that steam icon is better than the icon on the left, just sayin'. Same goes for my audio options(used to switch between headset/speakers), Network options for obvious reasons etc

You have no desktop icons. <.<.

I am... awed and horrified by that.

 

[Delsana]

That very blatantly ignores what makes TOR a unique experience--their story. To ignore that is just... illogical.

WoW was not as established a franchise as star wars for story, but to say that TOR is as much of a leap over all other MMOs in terms of story that it is to be considered a unique experience purely on that level alone is a bit silly.

On that logic, LOTRO would have been fantastic. Wasn't, if you ask me.

Keep in mind the story focus means the voice acting and integral relation to the gameplay rather than just an add on or reason that is or isn't ignored but primarily there only to advance the plot which leads to more killing and items. Story is the focus of this game, even in the "Instances".

 

[RobCoxxy]

I must not cry. I have wanted in on the beta for the past five years. I only got invited for this next weekend. Which is my oldest friend's weekend-long bender. OH GOD. D:
WHY

So you desperately wanted in for 5 years, missed the first weekend beta, and now have a shot at the 2nd weekend beta (which really they invite everyone to anyway) and getting drunk for a weekend is apparently more important to you? I'm not going to even TRY to say what's wrong with that statement, BUT, I will state that the likelihood of you being able to get drunk other days is probably extremely high and now knowing a small thing about your interests, I can assure you that you need not fret about lack of opportunities for you to destroy your brain cells over prolonged periods of time, as you'll have plenty of opportunities.

In any case.. you could just drink while playing... I might smoke a good cigar with a glass of wine while playing, possibly.

I like the cut of your jib.
Haven't seen said friend in a couple of years though, hence the big deal

I'll have plenty of TOR time come Christmas though. And cigars. :3

 

[Nami nom noms]

You know I've been waiting for SWTOR for 6 years now, and I've been following it closely, but I'm not sure that it will run on any of my computers...

So I FINALLY get to test this (so i can buy a better pc if need be) and what happens? they only have the testing weekend the on the exact same one I go to london for my anniversary

YOUR TIMING SUCKS, BIOWARE

(for the record, I'm not that bothered about playing the game so much, though it would be nice, I just want to know if my machine will run it or not!

 

[IncognitoHat]

I think I have a problem, because whenever The Old Republic gets brought up, I always have to chime in with something overwhelmingly negative.

Coming from someone who has spent the last seven years playing World of Warcraft, it's hard for me to understand why so many people are looking forward to this game. I can wrap my mind around the fact that it was Star Wars and is coming from the people who developed Knights of the Old Republic (even if it is being published by people who've made DLC as shitty as it's ever going to get, something that does not bode well for the game's future) but it became very clear very early on that it wasn't going to be anything 'like' Knights of the Old Republic. It is just another generic MMO that has copied just about everything it's doing from World of Warcraft (http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/). So yes, while the traditional Bioware story is going to be there, it's all going to be wrapped around the same generic MMO tasks until you inevitably hit the cap, at which point you will start grinding Space Battlegrounds for space honor, running Space Heroics for space badges, and space raiding for space tier 1.

I've also played the beta, before the bashing begins. I spent my time as a Sith inquisitor doing the combat WoW has made traditional (fast, although GCD based obviously) and doing the traditional MMO quests that were disguised through minutes and minutes of voice acting. Am I the only one who finds it laughable that their stated goal is to make people listen to the story, yet they're aiming at the World of Warcraft audience? Like for some reason getting loads of dialogue is going to make players listen. All that's going to change is that instead of scrolling down and hitting "accept quest" people will be mashing the space bar and THEN hitting accept quest.

Example; for my first side quest in SW:TOR I spoke to a commander inside some Sith Ruins. I had to go through six or seven minutes of Mass Effect styled dialogue before I get the quest objective; kill five space rats, hit space button. No amount of voice acting is going to hide the fact you're doing the same shit everyone else on the internet has been doing for the last seven years.

So, basically, everyone is getting hyped up and super excited for a game that has already been out for seven years. You could just go play World of Warcraft and read all the quest text out loud and you'd basically get the same experience.

Edit: I forgot to say that the main story quests for the Sith Inquisitor were pretty fun.

 

[Delsana]

You know I've been waiting for SWTOR for 6 years now, and I've been following it closely, but I'm not sure that it will run on any of my computers...

So I FINALLY get to test this (so i can buy a better pc if need be) and what happens? they only have the testing weekend the on the exact same one I go to london for my anniversary

YOUR TIMING SUCKS, BIOWARE

(for the record, I'm not that bothered about playing the game so much, though it would be nice, I just want to know if my machine will run it or not!

Tell me what your specs are, a lot of "can I run it" threads exist all over the forums on SWTOR.com.

 

[Delsana]

I think I have a problem, because whenever The Old Republic gets brought up, I always have to chime in with something overwhelmingly negative.

Coming from someone who has spent the last seven years playing World of Warcraft, it's hard for me to understand why so many people are looking forward to this game. I can wrap my mind around the fact that it was Star Wars and is coming from the people who developed Knights of the Old Republic (even if it is being published by people who've made DLC as shitty as it's ever going to get, something that does not bode well for the game's future) but it became very clear very early on that it wasn't going to be anything 'like' Knights of the Old Republic. It is just another generic MMO that has copied just about everything it's doing from World of Warcraft (http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/). So yes, while the traditional Bioware story is going to be there, it's all going to be wrapped around the same generic MMO tasks until you inevitably hit the cap, at which point you will start grinding Space Battlegrounds for space honor, running Space Heroics for space badges, and space raiding for space tier 1.

I've also played the beta, before the bashing begins. I spent my time as a Sith inquisitor doing the combat WoW has made traditional (fast, although GCD based obviously) and doing the traditional MMO quests that were disguised through minutes and minutes of voice acting. Am I the only one who finds it laughable that their stated goal is to make people listen to the story, yet they're aiming at the World of Warcraft audience? Like for some reason getting loads of dialogue is going to make players listen. All that's going to change is that instead of scrolling down and hitting "accept quest" people will be mashing the space bar and THEN hitting accept quest.

Example; for my first side quest in SW:TOR I spoke to a commander inside some Sith Ruins. I had to go through six or seven minutes of Mass Effect styled dialogue before I get the quest objective; kill five space rats, hit space button. No amount of voice acting is going to hide the fact you're doing the same shit everyone else on the internet has been doing for the last seven years.

So, basically, everyone is getting hyped up and super excited for a game that has already been out for seven years. You could just go play World of Warcraft and read all the quest text out loud and you'd basically get the same experience.

Edit: I forgot to say that the main story quests for the Sith Inquisitor were pretty fun.

I've played WoW as well, at the beginning and all the other times. I have to disagree with you though, it's not the same. I was worried it would be, but I WAS pleasantly surprised. And I've still not met anyone that gave the game an honest shot and who at the same time decided to skip ANY dialog. You may be on your own if you will judge them as such due to your bias.

 

[Delsana]

I must not cry. I have wanted in on the beta for the past five years. I only got invited for this next weekend. Which is my oldest friend's weekend-long bender. OH GOD. D:
WHY

So you desperately wanted in for 5 years, missed the first weekend beta, and now have a shot at the 2nd weekend beta (which really they invite everyone to anyway) and getting drunk for a weekend is apparently more important to you? I'm not going to even TRY to say what's wrong with that statement, BUT, I will state that the likelihood of you being able to get drunk other days is probably extremely high and now knowing a small thing about your interests, I can assure you that you need not fret about lack of opportunities for you to destroy your brain cells over prolonged periods of time, as you'll have plenty of opportunities.

In any case.. you could just drink while playing... I might smoke a good cigar with a glass of wine while playing, possibly.

I like the cut of your jib.
Haven't seen said friend in a couple of years though, hence the big deal

I'll have plenty of TOR time come Christmas though. And cigars. :3

Good on you to have a humidor, I wish I had a humidor... mmm maybe when I move the next time and get a nicer place. Not sure what my keyboard will be thinking, and I'll need to make sure I can multitask well enough without not giving enough time to enjoying and tasting the cigar as well as not dying or being distracted. Ehh maybe just prefer to go to the cigar bar. Imagine SWTOR lan at the cigar bar, hah.

 

[IncognitoHat]

I've played WoW as well, at the beginning and all the other times. I have to disagree with you though, it's not the same. I was worried it would be, but I WAS pleasantly surprised. And I've still not met anyone that gave the game an honest shot and who at the same time decided to skip ANY dialog. You may be on your own if you will judge them as such due to your bias.

Of course you're free to have your own opinion and your own take on things, saying the game isn't at all like World of Warcraft is just wrong.

Considering the five man instances, holy trinity, GCD based combat, the fact that Bioware said they were taking all inspiration from World of Warcraft, all point to the game being the same game play wise. All of the footage, play throughs, the fact that people have played in the beta all speak of the same. If you've played World of Warcraft and then tried SW:TOR and you don't see this, I'm not really sure you're qualified to offer any objective view on the game.

Also, you don't see other people skipping dialogue. Unless you're creepily hovering over their space bar.

 

[Rhatar Khurin]

I've played WoW as well, at the beginning and all the other times. I have to disagree with you though, it's not the same. I was worried it would be, but I WAS pleasantly surprised. And I've still not met anyone that gave the game an honest shot and who at the same time decided to skip ANY dialog. You may be on your own if you will judge them as such due to your bias.

I must admit i am always skipping dialogue in RPGs, especially in the KOTOR/KOTOR2 games and in every MMO i have played.

All i care about is completing the quest and getting the reward and then onto the next till i'm max level and then start playing "properly"

 

[Delsana]

I've played WoW as well, at the beginning and all the other times. I have to disagree with you though, it's not the same. I was worried it would be, but I WAS pleasantly surprised. And I've still not met anyone that gave the game an honest shot and who at the same time decided to skip ANY dialog. You may be on your own if you will judge them as such due to your bias.

Of course you're free to have your own opinion and your own take on things, saying the game isn't at all like World of Warcraft is just wrong.

Considering the five man instances, holy trinity, GCD based combat, the fact that Bioware said they were taking all inspiration from World of Warcraft, all point to the game being the same game play wise. All of the footage, play throughs, the fact that people have played in the beta all speak of the same. If you've played World of Warcraft and then tried SW:TOR and you don't see this, I'm not really sure you're qualified to offer any objective view on the game.

Also, you don't see other people skipping dialogue. Unless you're creepily hovering over their space bar.

Story additions through chapter content are the focus for their primary end game, not some silly raid or mass item fest.

You can say that if you like, but keep in mind WoW took things from other MMO's just as those MMO's took from others. It's not something specifically "WoW" that's just the most common one at this point, though it copied more than probably any MMO ever has. In any case, I have to respectfully disagree with you. BioWare has clearly stated that WoW is not the focus.

Also, the forums are abuzz with people who thought they'd hate it... and didn't.

 

[IncognitoHat]

Eh, before you jump on that "WoW just copied other MMOs before it!", you really have to look at other MMOs before World of Warcraft and 'really' think about what it copied.

Most people tend to mention Everquest (and yeah, that's where they got the inspiration for the game) but speaking as someone who played EQ for many years before World of Warcraft, the games are almost completely different.

Combat in Everquest was slow. First person perspective, a complete lack of narrative or quests, instances were years away at this point. The emphasis on raiding is pretty much the only thing to really come from EQ other than generic fantasy setting.

Again, I'm happy you enjoy TOR, but considering that anyone who has played TOR and WoW can see the differences, and the fact they've actually said that straying from WoW's formula is tempting fate in ways they and their ridiculously huge budget can't (won't, really) risk, the point is moot.

So gear up for Space WoW.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I played a little bit of the beta. Got sidetracked by Skyrim too much to really get into it, but what I saw, I liked, as long as it gets some major polish before release (which it will, being a beta and all).

But the thing is, even with the story, it had the same old MMO gameplay, but WITHOUT auto attack (something I prefer).

I'll get into it eventually.

But, all that being said, I have an important question for you, OP.

How, exactly, is SWTOR technically better than Skyrim? I saw someone else ask this, and you didn't answer. Until I get that answer, I can't pay any attention to anything else you say. This is not meant to offend you at all, mind you. It's just that it's a very, very bold statement. Explain the technical reasons as to why it's better, and I'll believe you.

Mind you, although I'm sure the SWTOR has more content, better VA, and a (most likely) overall better written story, these things alone a good game does not make. What I saw of the game, graphically, it looks like shit (and I'm not talking about the art style, though I do question a lot of their choices in that regard as well).

So, if you can answer your question, I can fully take part in this discussion. So, if you wouldn't mind backing up your claim?

 

[Crazy Zaul]

My beta is the upcoming weekend, but u reminded me to download the client.

the story was just THAT CAPTIVATING.

This is what I was thinking about. I don't wanna get into the story then get to effectively a cliffhanger and have to wait a month to carry on.

 

[Delsana]

My beta is the upcoming weekend, but u reminded me to download the client.

the story was just THAT CAPTIVATING.

This is what I was thinking about. I don't wanna get into the story then get to effectively a cliffhanger and have to wait a month to carry on.

That kind of happens with single player games though... hence why we have sequels or DLC... Fallout 3 was that and I found it fine, just moved on.

There are other classes though and other content, but I understand your point, we'll have to see how they do it. If they do it poorly then I'll be extremely disappointed.

 

[Delsana]

I played a little bit of the beta. Got sidetracked by Skyrim too much to really get into it, but what I saw, I liked, as long as it gets some major polish before release (which it will, being a beta and all).

But the thing is, even with the story, it had the same old MMO gameplay, but WITHOUT auto attack (something I prefer).

I'll get into it eventually.

But, all that being said, I have an important question for you, OP.

How, exactly, is SWTOR technically better than Skyrim? I saw someone else ask this, and you didn't answer. Until I get that answer, I can't pay any attention to anything else you say. This is not meant to offend you at all, mind you. It's just that it's a very, very bold statement. Explain the technical reasons as to why it's better, and I'll believe you.

Mind you, although I'm sure the SWTOR has more content, better VA, and a (most likely) overall better written story, these things alone a good game does not make. What I saw of the game, graphically, it looks like shit (and I'm not talking about the art style, though I do question a lot of their choices in that regard as well).

So, if you can answer your question, I can fully take part in this discussion. So, if you wouldn't mind backing up your claim?

Because you asked politely, sure.

Here are the primary reasons:

The Old Republic, being an MMO with a 100 million + budget and thus having huge server maintenance fees and other upkeep costs, already has a huge lead on Skyrim, primarily because it has the funding for universally more content than Skyrim can hope to achieve with their limited budget and their limited engine. But before you counter that, let me point out that I am aware the TOR engine while a new one, has some of the older engines of BioWare underneath it; however, this doesn't really matter that much because that huge budget and the additional subscription profits will allow for that engine to be expanded, developed, and further fleshed out much like other MMO's from their release to their period of maturity. World of Warcraft and the like can be mentioned as examples if you like, but they show how profit can truly develop something into something much better when you leave it open to change. The Skyrim engine is an optimization but it really has no new factors and without that huge income coming from subscription costs and the like, they don't have a chance to compete with a game that can consistently update its engine and which can stream new content and engine patches on a quarterly basis. True, they have a modding community, but can a community of modders truly compete with a hundred million backed programming and development team? I like to think modders are good, but I know they aren't THAT GOOD. Yes, they upgraded Skyrim already with their engine patches made by the community and other mods but that says more about the team that made Skyrim than it does the game itself.

In short, funding opens doors and lack of funding even if you're an AAA game (and I argue they are because Bethesda has ALWAYS had the same problems and many game-breaking bugs always make it in) closes them just as quick.

---

An MMO has an inherent advantage over any other type of game so long as that MMO can rake in what you would call "extraneous profits" these are profits beyond the profits they want, that are necessary, and that they like to hold for cashing in on the product. These are the profits that quite honesty, they don't actually need, but they realize won't keep being made if they don't continue the product via expansion and development. If the MMO succeeds in a great way (and uh we're talking Star Wars and BioWare here so let's not be naive) then it will have more money flowing from it than the company knows what to do with, because that's what an MMO does, and that's the ONLY REASON a company is willing to spend 100 million dollars on making one, because if it works (and let's be honest, this will) then they've got at least 10x that in a very very quick fashion. MMO's that are successes (and I mean REAL successes like WoW, despite what we think of the quality of that game) literally PRINT MONEY just like the Nintendo DS did for Nintendo, or the Wii. But all this money helps the community of the game quite well because much like a greedy company will try to give the consumer what they want as much as they can so to rake in the profit, a greedy development company will try to keep that game up as much as possible and eventually they'll make some ridiculous decisions, but these can all be patched out (as WoW, EQ II, and Guild Wars have shown) but they will also result in a lot of additional content.

Now, many people won't argue with me on this game I'll mention, but I should state that no protocol, policy, procedure, or analysis of how things work is perfect. Sony killed off PlanetSide their money printing MMOFPS quite a few years back, in fact, that was the game that made me get into computer building and having upgraded computers that ARE NOT spouting "Emachines" on their front. It was a great game and while Core Combat was "teh suck", the Aftermath content expansion brought forth the worst possible decision to add to a game--GIANT ROBOTS. BFR --- Battle Frame Robotics, or whatever else you think BFR stands for (and it did) ruined that game, and it was not something they could just patch out because the damage was done quite quickly. So quickly in fact that Sony trashed their greatly intricate and developed site that looked nice in favor of --- www.planetside.com --- which is... a laughable abomination of a website that used to be AAA. Oh, it's free now, which is what happens to all bad MMO's these days. Stay away from MMO's that USED to cost money, they will still be whatever made the game so bad because it costs money to change things.

That entire voice-acting feature is a big thing to be quite honest, and the compression of that so it doesn't just have huge options of text that you click one and voice comes out... that's really done well. I want to argue that it is a big thing. Because if they can get that to be a standard thing? That's a major benefit for games. That could be the thing that revitalizes the story feature of games that is slowly dying off. I play games for SP and for story, not for MP... I am playing SWTOR for the story, WITH OTHER people. That's a new idea, to have a hugely popular MMO give a story that others can add in on, and that's the entire focus. Some people call it the "leveling" part of the game, but I really think they're going to make it content additions.

---

So in all truth, the reason it can't compete is primarily a monetary reason, but also, let's be honest, Bethesda has a horrible reputation when it comes to bugs and repetition (they make okay or great games if you ignore that though), but BioWare is known for... trying new things, great story, and breaking the mold (let's accept that Dragon Age 2 is the ugly step child most people don't really like but they feel sorry for and make themselves like) and Bethesda doesn't have that.

---

I can name a few other reasons but the monetary reason is something that honestly can't accurately be argued with. We've already seen what happens to BioWare when their budget is lowered and they are forced to rush something, and we've seen how all of Bethesda's 4 recent games are considered AAA but use the same engine with minor optimization's and literally play the same. Add some more money to either of them and something new might occur, but Bethesda isn't known for innovation and trying new things, BioWare is. That alone shows where the extra money should go. The dinosaur companies and mentalities always end up dying a very sad and lonely death.