Star Wars: This Is How You Defend The Ridiculous Crossguard Lightsaber

immortalfrieza

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RJ 17 said:
I demand lightsaber nunchaku!
Actually, they did that one already:



Now, how about a double bladed lightsaber tonfa? Actually, I think that would be more practical than actual lightsabers.
 

Something Amyss

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FakDendor said:
Of course it is - the promotions for episode 1 were't just of a double-bladed lightsaber without showing the characters, setting, or any plot whatsoever.
Yeah, I know. They got so deep into the character of that Darth Maul guy.

Oh, wait, no, even the movie didn't do that. He got barely any screen time and died in one movie. And the trailers mostly just teased him.

But that's different. Because lens flare ponies.
 

Mr Companion

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Yknow I went into this discussion thinking the hilt-saber makes sense but now you try to justify it I realize it actually doesn't make much sense at all. Even if you had 100% control of the weapon and the spacial sense necessary to wield a regular lightsaber the hilt saber would still obstruct your movement enough that you wouldn't be able to strike and block at as many angles as a regular user. The added wrist restriction would be an issue regardless.

Also thinking about it I don't see how a regular LS would be too self destructive to wield. I mean it WOULD be a little but once you teach yourself the mantra "glowy end ALWAYS away" then it's all alertness from there on. Sure it might be a terrible idea to use it while sleepy or disorientated but that's true of any weapon. The best way to wield it would be like a rapier, keeping your whole body sideways and as far away from both your weapon and the enemies as possible. It's not like you need weighty or powerful strikes with a LS because it melts any armor and moves as fast as your arm allows, might as well go for speed and precision over arcing strikes.
 

Strelok

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Personally, I like the design, and how do we know it is a hilt at all. The rule of two is over, this is a self trained Sith lord, who may have only been able to get a small amount of information in order to self train. From the looks of the teaser the Sith lord is using an unstable crystal, so what if the extensions are not hand guards, but instead vents because he/she did not assemble the lightsaber correctly? He/she could come from a world where they use similar style weapons. Anyway I am anxious to see what they come up with, it would take a great deal of effort for Disney and J.J. Abrams to fuck this up more than George "milk that cash cow" Lucas did with episodes 1,2 and 3.
 

FakDendor

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Zachary Amaranth said:
FakDendor said:
Of course it is - the promotions for episode 1 were't just of a double-bladed lightsaber without showing the characters, setting, or any plot whatsoever.
Yeah, I know. They got so deep into the character of that Darth Maul guy.

Oh, wait, no, even the movie didn't do that. He got barely any screen time and died in one movie. And the trailers mostly just teased him.

But that's different. Because lens flare ponies.
Promotions. Not the movie. Promotions. Darth Maul and the Double-Bladed lightsaber were in the movie itself, they weren't the sole focus of some vague media campaign pre-movie to try and get people to watch Episode 1 without knowing anything. They were in the movie itself. My point was that the entire debate about this "claymore" lightsaber has been manufactured deliberately by Abrams to give the movie a high profile?without actually revealing a thing about the film.
 

blackrave

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JakobBloch said:
From a purely Lore perspective there is also the whole "building your own lightsaber" and having it "reflect the nature of the wielder". For most Jedi the differences are slight. They value and instruct restraint and balance. Thus most of their lightsabers follow a traditional and functional design. Siths on the other hand encourage you to wallow in your emotions. So we see various design choices from Count Dookus more elegantly designed lightsaber to Darth Mauls dual-lightsaber. Both reflect the user, with Dooku being a very arrogant fighter, holding his lightsaber much like a conductors baton or a light thrusting weapon and Maul overwhelming his opponent with a flurry of brutal attacks struck in great rage but with total control.
It is however not a purely Sith thing. Look at Mace Windus purple lightsaber and lets not overlook likes own lightsaber. A simple utilitarian design. Add to that the different colors of lightsaber among the Jedi (in the RPGs these denote your class or focus).
So what does that tell us about this new sith? Well a cross-guard is primarily used to protect the users hand, but what options does it give to a highly trained individual? Well unlike the standard style of parry and recover, the crossguard allows him to follow through on his attacks without fear of a few missing fingers. At these situations where the blades are locked, the guard becomes a threat for his opponent. While not likely to be lethal the guard can be use to cut of fingers, injure arms or chest or any part of the enemies. Just slide the blade along the opponents blade and he is in trouble. Another option would be to using immaterial light to catch and hold the opponents blade. A parry and quick twist of the wrist and the opponents blade would be caught between you blade and the guard, making it easier to disarm your opponent. From these possibilities we can tell that the sith would be a tactical fighter. In other situations it is likely that they will choose to personally engage but will use any trick to gain the advantage.
That is the only argument that makes sense.
Thank you.
 

Major_Tom

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I think you need a better flashlight.

And why is everyone calling it a claymore or a broadsword? It looks nothing like a claymore, and "broadsword" isn't even a thing.
This thing looks like a claymore:
Nurb said:
 

seditary

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I thought about this a lot and eventually just gave up because how lightsaber combat is depicted is wildly inconsistent between the two trilogies.

I just think it looks pretty dumb and was probably lazily designed by someone who just wanted something 'cool' for toys.
 

Something Amyss

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FakDendor said:
Promotions. Not the movie. Promotions.
You're right, I totally didn't address the promotions....

And the trailers mostly just teased him.
Actually, that kind of looks like I did.

Darth Maul and the Double-Bladed lightsaber were in the movie itself, they weren't the sole focus of some vague media campaign pre-movie to try and get people to watch Episode 1 without knowing anything.
Uhhhh...what...

Maul and his dual-bladed lightsaber were poster-children for Episode I.

My point was that the entire debate about this "claymore" lightsaber has been manufactured deliberately by Abrams to give the movie a high profile?without actually revealing a thing about the film.
My point was that this is no different from what Lucas did with Maul, and you've just described exactly why that's true.

archiebawled said:
Isn't that basically just saying "it's a teaser trailer"? I'm in agreement with you about their purpose, but I don't think it's fair to single out Abrams.
People have heard the phrase "mystery box" in association with Abrams and will go to any lengths to justify it.

Major_Tom said:
And why is everyone calling it a claymore or a broadsword? It looks nothing like a claymore, and "broadsword" isn't even a thing.
Both terms entered into colloquial usages by the 18th century. I think you're a couple hundred years too late to be complaining about the terminology. I'm pretty sure when someone says either term, we both understand what they mean.
 

Kuredan

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ZZoMBiE13 said:
My problem with the light saber in the trailer has nothing to do with it's design. It's the desperate cloying going on.
Trust me, man. You're not alone. I don't know- it may be because Star Wars has targeted children with their media for the past 10 years (Clone Wars, Rebels, etc) but I think there are parts in this trailer designed to make a 10 year old say "Thish ish shoooo coooool!" while adults go "Uggh" I think there are several gifs that adequately take this concept to the next logical step: swiss army saber and sabersaw. It's just silly and trying a little too hard to be "so cool you don't even know". I hope the movie is better than what I have seen so far, but I could watch the Falcon fly into view endlessly and be happy.
 

Lieju

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RJ Dalton said:
You know what the Sith scene reminds me of? Where he walks in and then shows off his "look at how cool it has three blades OMG!!!"? It reminds me of that scene in Ghost Rider where you see the bad guy for the first time. Where he just walks up to the camera and goes "RAWR! I'M SCARY!!!" That's what really bothers me about that scene in the trailer. I can't imagine any other context in a movie for a scene like that because of how the scene is shot and framed.
It looks like whoever it is is planning to cut down some trees.
My prediction: it's actually Princess (Queen??) Leia sneaking into the neighbour's forest to steal a Life Day tree. The black storm-trooper is shocked because he is realizing they won't get any snow this Life Day, and the Millenium Falcon is flying to buy some last moment presents.

Seriously, we know nothing about the sword. But I think it's telling that people are up in arms about it: it represents their fears of the movies just being cool things for the sake of being 'cool' for no reason.
 

Lieju

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the7ofswords said:
And finally, I like how everyone's assuming the figure holding the "tri-saber" in the teaser must be a Sith Lord of some sort. What if he or she isn't? What if this person just happened to pick up a red lightsaber? (I suspect it's an early prototype saber from the distant past,) And, if we're guessing s/he must be Sith due to the black cloak, well ... does anyone remember Luke's outfit in Return of the Jedi?
Well, the narrator goes 'the Dark Side...' when they come on-screen, so...

I don't have any major issue with the design of the saber personally, but it doesn't look terribly cool. And cooler designs with crossguards have already been presented in this thread. The design looks cheap and something a 10-year old would come up with. Maybe that's the point, who knows, but presented with no context, the cheapness of the design really is the only thing we're left with.
 

Odoylerules360

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I think the bigger problem is giving a European style weapon to a space samurai. Is that character going to have other western motifs? Is he going to represent western philosophy and values? Or is it just a stupid gimmick that clashes with the rest of the setting?
 

Chaos Marine

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Scars Unseen said:
The real problem is that it serves no purpose. Any blow from a lightsaber that a crossguard would stop in a clash between two normal swords will instead slice through the emitters. You could argue that the hilt could be made from cortosis to prevent this, but if you have access to that, it would make more sense just to make the whole crossguard from the stuff.
Pretty much this.
 

Boba Frag

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Wolyo said:
Boba Frag said:
For referencing Oakeshott AND Albion swords, you are my hero, sir!

Lovely to see sword fans crop up here :)
Wherever they's a post about swords, I'll be there. Wherever they's a misconception about balance, I'll be there...

Anyhow using the Poitier was the best option "Oakeshott type XV" is not really meaningfull even when you know what Oakeshott type are.
Haha! The Well Informed Knight :p

Oh, absolutely, I find it nearly impossible to keep track of the typologies without visual references to work from and Albion are the example par excellence for quality reproductions.

I have to admit, I was one of the booing and hissing gallery but it was actually Matt Easton (Schola Gladiatora) that changed my mind about the crossguard appearing on the lightsaber.

Mind you, I have managed to bop myself once or twice with one, but that's because of my own ineptitude, not the sword's fault :p
 

the7ofswords

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Lieju said:
the7ofswords said:
And finally, I like how everyone's assuming the figure holding the "tri-saber" in the teaser must be a Sith Lord of some sort. What if he or she isn't? What if this person just happened to pick up a red lightsaber? (I suspect it's an early prototype saber from the distant past,) And, if we're guessing s/he must be Sith due to the black cloak, well ... does anyone remember Luke's outfit in Return of the Jedi?
Well, the narrator goes 'the Dark Side...' when they come on-screen, so...

I don't have any major issue with the design of the saber personally, but it doesn't look terribly cool. And cooler designs with crossguards have already been presented in this thread. The design looks cheap and something a 10-year old would come up with. Maybe that's the point, who knows, but presented with no context, the cheapness of the design really is the only thing we're left with.
I totally understand where you'e coming from. The context here is going to be important. That's what will determine whether this is silly, awesome, or somewhere in between.

Oh, and the voice-over line could easily be misdirection. I like to have my own pet theories, but I'm perfectly willing to admit they're probably wrong.
 

ThisNickname

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I dunno man, I guess I just don't see why it would be that hard to be mindful of the position of the straight line coming from your hand. I feel like I could wave a flashlight around for a few minutes and never have it shine directly onto my body... Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I never found it hard to accept lightsaber swordfighting. In contrast, I take one look at this "cross-saber" and the very first thing I think is "that would put a hole in your arm as soon as you flick your wrist." Immedietly followed by "that wouldn't even work as a guard because the way the emitters are positioned, they would just be sliced through." And I know I'm not the only one.

Besides, I reject the notion that because lightsabers are unrealistic to begin with, all possible lightsaber designs are no more or less stupid than each other. You see what I'm getting at? Maybe there's a reason people could accept lightsabers, but are skeptical about this particular design.

THAT SAID! I have heard another defense of the crossguard lightsaber that makes a lot of sense to me, and it has nothing to do with physics or suspension of disbelief. Apparently, looking at the appearence of the blade and hilt, it seems that this lightsaber isn't poorly designed, so much as it is poorly BUILT. You can see this most clearly in the wavering consistancy of the (enormous) red blade. The crossguard lightsaber isn't stupid, it's COBBLED TOGETHER. =D This has even led to some speculation that the extra beams aren't meant as a guard, but rather to serve as a means to discharge excess energy. That's still a bit contrived, don't get me wrong, but it reminded me of Strider's scarf from the recent reboot, which apparently isn't a scarf at all, but rather a manifestation of its owner's excess power, channeled through a power-surpressing collar. It's an ENERGY SCARF. That's the kind of "cool design by consequence of practicality or necessity" thinking that I can get behind.
 

Scow2

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... Is it really so hard to not know what direction something you're holding is facing?

Yes, light sabers are hilt-heavy. But you know where the blade is by knowing where your hands are pointing.
 

LazyAza

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Defending? what defending people are just idiots. Here its quite simple:

The light saber is a piece of garbage cobbled together from random junk parts so it isn't working correctly or efficiently.

The "crossguard" beams aren't actual lightsaber beams, they are excess plasma venting at a point where it can escape. Possibly because its not being properly contained, possibly because if it wasn't venting it would over heat due to poor construction.

Perhaps this excess plasma is completely harmless and is merely warm? if you look closely those extra two beams don't even have the same shape to them and are more transparent. See all it takes is a smidge of outside the box thinking and the design makes complete sense. Just because it kind of looks like a tiny set of lightsaber beams doesn't mean they have the exact same properties as the main beam.