State Department Proposes "Trolling" Web-Based Islamic Extremists
- Thread starter Hevva
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The headline made me think it was a stupid move, as did the opening paragraphs, but after reading the whole thing I have to admit there is some possibility for this to work.
And I also have to admit that of the ways the US tries to combat terrorism, this really probably is one of the most effective, since so much of what's being done now accomplishes nothing or worse.
That said, the return on investment when arguing on forums is very low. It's above zero when done correctly, but not by much.
And I also have to admit that of the ways the US tries to combat terrorism, this really probably is one of the most effective, since so much of what's being done now accomplishes nothing or worse.
That said, the return on investment when arguing on forums is very low. It's above zero when done correctly, but not by much.
In reality, I see this doing nothing positive at all. Extremist groups, the kind actually serious enough to be dangerous, won't be affected by this. In fact, it's actually kind of hilarious (in a slightly sad way) that this is happening, that someone really thought this would be the way to go. Terrorist groups of any stripe, are terrorists because they cause fear, suffering and death. This isn't something you whip together some fresh faces teens to have a crack at. This isn't a pet project to bring people together and make a difference. We're talking about groups setting out to destroy and murder.Hevva said:
What this whole thing will do is reinforce and remind the public of the propaganda the media and government spew out on a daily basis. "Look, guys. We're stopping them damn Muslims!" Hell, just the word Muslim means terrorist now. It conjurers up images of savages and tribal men beating women and blowing up buildings. Because that's all we see and that's all they want us to see--it's easier to allow and embrace the killing of faceless monsters than real people. Instead of educating the public and giving them the facts--the correct way to inspire change--we've got another group using Islam and extremist in their mission statement as if the two are one word.
Their motives are pure enough and I've little doubt there is anything but good intentions driving the campaign. Could well be a bunch of people wanting to make a difference and help put a stop to people getting hurt. But this method won't stop anything and it will continue to feed the hype machine. The cheesy sheen so thick the logo'd give you diabetes if you stared at it too long.
Not undermining and demoralizing the people exposed to it, genius; to do so to the extremists, by showing their potential recruits, and their existing ones, there may be another way.mfeff said:
Not saying it'd work, or that it's the right way to do it, just that you're reading it wrong.
That said, this isn't "trolling" in the slightest. I realize you want people to read your news by using the hip slang of the now to attract the drooling dullards who see any of the aforementioned slang and come running to tout it as if it were a freaking deity, but it's a hell of a stretch to refer to this by it regardless.
Please be real. I want to see a bunch of the first 50 somethings they train (who probably have only a passing understanding of the internet) try to troll online.
Well, good job advertising your intentions to the world before you even start, guys! Even /b/ is smart enough to repeatedly remind people to not talk about /b/.
Clearing the Eye said:
But who is the terrorist before they're a terrorist? They're someone who's angry, for whatever reason. It takes time and convincing to turn a regular person into someone who thinks blowing other humans up is a good idea. While I agree with most of what you're saying, I think it's important to note that diluting the rhetoric used by Islamic extremist to recruit new cell-members could have a positive impact in the long run. Terrorist groups are setting out to murder and destroy, yes, and they're increasingly recruiting online. It's better to try and nip the process in the bud using information than to do nothing, no?
Additionally, I don't think this group interchanges the words "Islam" and "extremist" like so many others we see, mostly because its members are Muslims. Radical (or extreme) Islam is the path that leads most directly to terrorism; personally, I trust this bunch to know the difference.
But still, it's early days. Hopefully it turns out well.
I wouldn't be surprised if extremists started trolling our forums in protest. This is going to get interesting.
The Taoist hardliners haven't come out of their mountain hermitage for the last 40 years, the Christian extremists are too busy running for president, and the Buddhists are still sleeping off the effects of peace, love, and understanding.Allthingsspectacular said:
Lately the Islamic ones have been hogging all the explode-y goodness, which is why they get all the attention.
I see your point. I was looking at much of this the wrong way. I think my bias (irony) concerning the poor treatment of the issue within society has gotten the best of me here.Hevva said:
While I still consider the plan on a whole futile, the affects of intercepting the messages at the source of delivery should at least be interesting. If expanded upon significantly, I could imagine a situation in which confused or angry people are lead down a different, less destructive path.
I'll leave this with the same mindset as you, friend--hopefully it turns out well.
Captcha: play ball
And so it begins...
Trolling actually refers to generally "hanging out." While the internet has turned it into a thing of malice, the word simply refers to traveling back and forth in an area. You could troll the local stores, for example. In this case, the author uses a combination of the internet term and the actual meaning, to create something akin to the former but without the douchebaggery.CriticKitten said:
I'm slightly bemused by the scepticism and sneering in this thread. This is not an inherently bad idea.
They're not primarily targetting the extremists themselves, but the 'undecideds' who might be converted. Like many internet forums I imagine these forums runs on group-think - an 'us and them' mentality that thrives on everyone being on message and reinforcing each other, because there are no dissenting voices. Drop someone who's looking to believe in something/anything into that environment and they'll be easily swayed. Throw in some intelligent, interesting opinions that differ from the group think and it's less likely.
Islamic extremism is not going to be stopped by western police, military and covert agencies, let alone by the opposition and scorn of christian or secular westerners - it's going to be stopped when sufficient numbers of moderate muslims stand up and argue with the fanatics on their own terms - quoting the Koran right back at them and showing that just because you're a muslim you don't 'have' to be an extremist.
Whether or not this particular initiative will accomplish anything is open to question, but the idea is sound, and a step in the right direction.
They're not primarily targetting the extremists themselves, but the 'undecideds' who might be converted. Like many internet forums I imagine these forums runs on group-think - an 'us and them' mentality that thrives on everyone being on message and reinforcing each other, because there are no dissenting voices. Drop someone who's looking to believe in something/anything into that environment and they'll be easily swayed. Throw in some intelligent, interesting opinions that differ from the group think and it's less likely.
Islamic extremism is not going to be stopped by western police, military and covert agencies, let alone by the opposition and scorn of christian or secular westerners - it's going to be stopped when sufficient numbers of moderate muslims stand up and argue with the fanatics on their own terms - quoting the Koran right back at them and showing that just because you're a muslim you don't 'have' to be an extremist.
Whether or not this particular initiative will accomplish anything is open to question, but the idea is sound, and a step in the right direction.
Personally, and this is not an attack against you, but if a person can find any sensible justification to blowing up themselves and innocent people, they are fucked up...Kargathia said:
Hmmm. Paying people to try to be right on the Internet? I thought most people did that for free!