State Department Proposes "Trolling" Web-Based Islamic Extremists

[Sixcess]

I'm slightly bemused by the scepticism and sneering in this thread. This is not an inherently bad idea.

They're not primarily targetting the extremists themselves, but the 'undecideds' who might be converted. Like many internet forums I imagine these forums runs on group-think - an 'us and them' mentality that thrives on everyone being on message and reinforcing each other, because there are no dissenting voices. Drop someone who's looking to believe in something/anything into that environment and they'll be easily swayed. Throw in some intelligent, interesting opinions that differ from the group think and it's less likely.

Islamic extremism is not going to be stopped by western police, military and covert agencies, let alone by the opposition and scorn of christian or secular westerners - it's going to be stopped when sufficient numbers of moderate muslims stand up and argue with the fanatics on their own terms - quoting the Koran right back at them and showing that just because you're a muslim you don't 'have' to be an extremist.

Whether or not this particular initiative will accomplish anything is open to question, but the idea is sound, and a step in the right direction.

 

[WanderingFool]

This entire thing is almost too dumb for public consumption. I'm afraid people will read this and die from an overload of stupid.

And yet it probably is one of the better anti-terrorism ideas out there. Which is extremely depressing - or downright hilarious, depending on your sense of humour.

Why dont they just ask 4chan to troll the Islamic radicals?

Don't know about you, but I find 4chan trolling an excellent argument as to why you should strap c4 to your chest, and detonate.

Personally, and this is not an attack against you, but if a person can find any sensible justification to blowing up themselves and innocent people, they are fucked up...

 

[Formica Archonis]

Hmmm. Paying people to try to be right on the Internet? I thought most people did that for free!

 

[mfeff]

Since when did employing logic, humor, satire [and] religious arguments undermine and demoralize anyone? What an asshole.

Not undermining and demoralizing the people exposed to it, genius; to do so to the extremists, by showing their potential recruits, and their existing ones, there may be another way.

Not saying it'd work, or that it's the right way to do it, just that you're reading it wrong.

That said, this isn't "trolling" in the slightest. I realize you want people to read your news by using the hip slang of the now to attract the drooling dullards who see any of the aforementioned slang and come running to tout it as if it were a freaking deity, but it's a hell of a stretch to refer to this by it regardless.

In all fairness I did "get" what he was talking about. Your correction is a pretty good one.

I knee-jerked considering the concept of asymmetrical warfare or full spectrum warfare includes disinformation and propaganda. His use of the term demoralize and undermine are, for better of for worse, shoplifted from a western military vernacular.

The implication is that the enemy/moral agent is "at present" quantified with high morale and high positional framing (psychologically hygienic).

Amanullah wants to train young Muslims from across the Islamic world to use "logic, humor, satire, [and] religious arguments, not just to confront [extremists], but to undermine and demoralize them" on forums, Facebook, and Twitter.

I inferred that logic, humor, satire, and Islamic philosophy where being associated with "disinformation" and "propaganda".

That is coming from having of surmised the response of the core group, that some form of their system is illogical. Though it is perfectly rational "as agency" to hold to false beliefs, as with any dogma the extreme sides tend to bend contrary information through the use of persuasion and psychological intimidation to subvert the conflicting data. It's perhaps a form of cognitive dissonance.

A cursory examination of many cults have shown that break downs in information tend to enhance the fervor of the cult rather than subvert it. Coupled with a strong military presence in these countries, the notion that reason would engender passivity for a "freedom fighter" fighting for his very "soul" and that of his country is a long shot at best. The unfortunate aspect of this is that both sides in this contest have very strong elements of dichotomy in their respective approaches. I suspect it will simply cause a negative feedback loop.

I think my other problem is that this type of warfare is not anything new, and especially not anything new in this particular series of conflicts. Give it a couple days and Al Jazeera will be running a special on it, the web sites will have fancy graphics espousing about it... and bam... there ya go.

As an aside if peace is really what anyone wanted... the military presence would be removed, the corporate military would be removed, Guantanamo Bay would be emptied out... and a series of apologies and I'm Sorry would be forthcoming.

It's a tough sell to try to even suggest that people who have had dump truck loads of bombs delivered on top of them for years by the most sophisticated war machine ever conceived would be convinced at the "error" of their ways reflecting on the disproportionate response of said opponent. An emotionally vested opponent is, well... vested. I figure good or bad, right or wrong, rational or irrational... many of these young men and women are just looking for a little pay back. The war that never ends.

 

[Kargathia]

This entire thing is almost too dumb for public consumption. I'm afraid people will read this and die from an overload of stupid.

And yet it probably is one of the better anti-terrorism ideas out there. Which is extremely depressing - or downright hilarious, depending on your sense of humour.

Why dont they just ask 4chan to troll the Islamic radicals?

Don't know about you, but I find 4chan trolling an excellent argument as to why you should strap c4 to your chest, and detonate.

Personally, and this is not an attack against you, but if a person can find any sensible justification to blowing up themselves and innocent people, they are fucked up...

You'll find that "sensible" is not the highest of priorities to people planning to turn themselves into a payload delivery device. It tends to be an emotional action - not often undertaken as the result of reasoned and objective debate.

Captcha: "lets roll". And here I thought I was the one with the warped sense of humour.

 

[Bad Jim]

Hmmm. Paying people try to be right on the Internet? I thought most people did that for free!

These people would know their facts and back up their arguments with sources and logic and reason. This is quite unlike anything seen on public forums. It's almost cheating.

 

[Electrogecko]

There are too many people commenting that clearly didn't read the article and just assumed this meant "let's antagonize the terrorists."

 

[antipunt]

OK. I think I suddenly realized why the Internet is so dangerous for extremists.

Imagine the console wars. Or the PC vs console wars. Or fanboy wars.

....

now imagine that vitriol supplied with actual terrorist ammo

..

_>

 

[RJ Dalton]

I'm not even joking when I say this, but this may be the best idea our government has ever had.

. . .

 

[UnderCoverGuest]

This might be good if it targeted theistic religion in general instead of only Muslim extremism.

 

[Pinstar]

Ummm you know Bronies are really good at talking with haters and demoralizing them... or converting them to being bronies themselves.

Has MLP:FIM been translated to Arabic yet?

 

[nexus]

The implications of this are fucking profound, and this is only one thing they admit to the public.

Some people are just blissfully ignorant of what's going on with the interwebs these days. . .

Honestly, I've been watching this happen for years now, and it's not only targeted at "Islamist Extremists" sites (lol). It's for any dissenting opinion sites that don't toe the "establishment line". That is for anti-war sites that espouse strong opinions against actions in the middle-east "kinetic military action in Libya" for example.

It's used for political reasons also. It is a go-to tool for corporate companies, like Monsanto just to name one.

This is just the State Dept admitting they do this. This does not include the 3rd parties that have been doing it for decades. Some companies are contracted to do work that no human beings should do.

I honestly can't believe people are okay with this. You are about as perceptive as a brick if you think the claim for "Only Islamist Extremist guuys, trust us" is valid. It's one of the tenants for Disinformation. Please wake up a little, this isn't going to be used for good. We've created a "Post-Cold War Syndrome" for the digital age. We inflated the Military Industrial Complex and created an unfathomable amount of new "Policing" dragnets, and then popped the balloon. They have no enemies to fight, they have nothing to do but turn inward and destroy everything.

 

[Tradjus]

While this sounds like a great idea in theory, Extremists who have their own forums and message boards aren't going to be affected in the slightest. For one, you can't -talk- a person out of a viewpoint they've held their entire lives, so changing what people think by pointing out logical inconsistencies and hypocrisy is a pointless waste of time. Second, extremists in their own boards and forums are going to have all the power and control over what is and isn't said, as mentioned in the article, moderators will hastily delete posts that disagree with their interpretations and beliefs.
However, if the focus is instead going to be on warding people away from these sorts of sites who aren't otherwise indoctrinated, I think a different approach is probably needed. If someone is angry enough to seek out one of these places, odds are logical arguments aren't going to win them over either. People don't -accidentally- start posting on sites like this, there's always a reason, good or not.

 

[Baresark]

This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. People who have practical experience on the internet know that trolling only riles people up more. It doesn't prod them to think differently, it angers them further into their line of thought. I would love to troll this guy and try to prod him out of his stupidity.

 

[ElPatron]

Lowering to their level and giving them ammunition... Seems legit...

I am afraid I did not get your point.

How is trolling "lowering to the level" of people who want to kill for their beliefs? How is disrupting their place of interaction "giving them ammunition"?

Even /b/ is smart enough to repeatedly remind people to not talk about /b/.

Even Moot himself said that "rules" are a bunch of faggotry. Rules 1 & 2 are widely known because they were a reference to fight club, they are just a joke.

4chan is the imageboard with the highest daily traffic in the world, /b/ is not a special secret club.

 

[Micalas]

$5 says people will see "troll them" and not read the rest of the article. THey will then go on to extremist websites and posts four million pictures of Muhammed's head inside of goatse.

 

[Gilhelmi]

Shahed Amanullah, a senior technology advisor to the State Department, the Viral Peace nicely-troll-an-extremist program will aim to disrupt the virtual spaces most frequently occupied by would-be terrorists and Islamic extremists. Amanullah wants to train young Muslims from across the Islamic world to use "logic, humor, satire, [and] religious arguments, not just to confront [extremists], but to undermine and demoralize them" on forums, Facebook, and Twitter.

Since when did employing logic, humor, satire [and] religious arguments undermine and demoralize anyone? What an asshole.

This guy sounds like a guerrilla marketeer used to sending in waves of poorly educated phone whores into forums to diffuse trash like... I dunno... Bioware incompetence. Secondly this particular tactic is as sound as wearing hot pink camo as far as stratagem. Why in the hell would someone advertise the fact that they were about to initiate this program in public circles? It's only a ruse as long as no one talks about it.

Though the Viral Peace internet-scourers will likely face trouble in the form of tetchy admins and quick removal from highly conservative sites, they could find themselves welcomed in more moderate spaces, according to specialists on the topic.

Don't have to be a specialist to know that the best way to keep a secret is to keep it a secret.

Just another waste of time and resources on the war on error'. Nice job.

It might actually work, I have seen similar tactics work too convert people from radical christian too real and safe Christians. Also, these are not going to be like Bio-wares Fake Gamers, because they are recruiting real Muslims who actually read the Holy Qur'an.

They wont stop the "true believers" but they may save those borderline people debating on whether or not too join Al-quida.

Though I worry that these brave people fighting terrorism online may be targeted by the enemy. So I agree with you on that they should not advertise operations. I hope they have contingency plans in place in that event. Personally, I am building a fort. So I will not join their fight until I complete that.

 

[Gilhelmi]

$5 says people will see "troll them" and not read the rest of the article. They will then go on to extremist websites and posts four million pictures of Muhammad's head inside of goatse.

Based on the responses you are correct.

Though, if they are recruiting real Muslims then no one will post a picture of Muhammad.

 

[LZeroK]

Lowering to their level and giving them ammunition... Seems legit...

I am afraid I did not get your point.

How is trolling "lowering to the level" of people who want to kill for their beliefs? How is disrupting their place of interaction "giving them ammunition"?

1.- Can you spell joke?
2.- I know humans, I am one, people will do and use anything (understatement) if it helps them.

 

[Micalas]

$5 says people will see "troll them" and not read the rest of the article. They will then go on to extremist websites and posts four million pictures of Muhammad's head inside of goatse.

Based on the responses you are correct.

Though, if they are recruiting real Muslims then no one will post a picture of Muhammad.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about those officialy recruited. I'm talking about the vigilantes.

CAPTCHA: sour grapes. HAH!