Stats on console and portable gaming device ownsership

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

There's actual studies that Jrpgs and Visual novels DO indeed have a higher ratio of female audiences than most other genres though. Even if some of these Jrpgs are "aimed" at men, the fact that women like them is the significant bit, not that the games they like more than, say, competitive shooters, are not aimed at them. If they like them more, then these games being as they are are ALREADY good enough!


(also, I feel I should point out that I just tackled the gamer thing a couple posts up and yet invariable people glossed it over and started arguing about it again...grief)

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Wait, what are you lot hoping to gain from arguing bere? I see no useful end goal. Was not expecting another gender argument based on this title alone. Pass the Oxytocin around quick, please!

 

[kris40k]

Well, sadly this is all I got on the matter. Anything else would probably require in depth knowledge on exactly how surverys work, which seems to be a bit more complicated than you might think. Absolutely true about the phrasing changing the answer. I wish I could give you more info but this is all I got.

I appreciate that, but yeah, the framing of the questions would be important. If you called my house and my GF answered and you asked her, "Do you own a gaming console," she would answer "Yeah, everything except a PS4 which we're getting this Christmas."

She doesn't play console games. She's a PC gamer.

 

[Saetha]

I don't get it, I'm afraid. It's one thing just reposting or reporting information, but what did you want to talk about?

That women had a presence in gaming as proved by the fact that more women own consoles than men because this is something that is frequently disputed on this very website...did I word my arguments that badly?

I'm not gonna bother arguing the data, because that's the same circular argument that always pops up around this and clearly, plenty of others in the forum have it covered.

But, here's the thing that always confuses me - this data claims women have a presence in the industry. That the are a major, if not the major, consumer of products. Okay. Cool. So... why should anything change? I often see this used as a reason why the industry and the games it produces need to change to better accommodate women - but if enough women poured in to become a major consumer pool so quickly, then obviously games are doing something right. They should keep doing what they're doing, even. I mean - the women are already here! Clearly they like it, or they wouldn't bother with it. If this were a serious, quality-effecting complaint, to the point where women won't even buy a game/console because it impairs they're enjoyment, these numbers wouldn't be as high.

It just seems like such redundant logic to me. These stats aren't the call for change so many seem to celebrate them as. They're, if anything, an urge to stay on course, because clearly they're doing something right being just as they are.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I see no problem with the idea that more women own consoles than men...i applaud it if it's true because 99.9% of the males i've played with or against on games are completely shit and maybe the females need more of a chance so i can actually get some competition.

Look at women's football...they outperform the males in my country by a long long way.

Men are mostly shit at everything they do

*yes, i am male*

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

But all these things were still in ADDITION to playing games.

I think it's just dishonest for a lot of people to go "well, if 50% of gamers are women then they must be using phones!"

and then when proven that it applies to consoles too, immediately switch to "well I bet they dont even game on their gaming consoles!"

there's just no amount of information that will satisfy some people when it comes to proving how much women game

just to chime in with the others, one of my best friends wife got an xbone purely as a media player, she plays music/netflix on it pretty much every day while she's home with their kid, but I don't think ONCE has she ever played a game on it.

so, just like the other people, I completely agree that the argument is silly in the first place (to argue against women gaming), but I do know personally know a girl who owns a console and doesn't play games on it ever.


and as mentioned, in my extended family alone we had like 8 ps2's that were used purely as dvd players, they were so cheap comparatively that it was well worth it in case cousins/kids came over that wanted to also play video games.

OT: I'll mirror what alot of other posters weere going for here...

wat. Of course women game, and of course they own consoles, I wouldn't expect anything less...? Are we purposely trying to reminisce on a time when jackasses said otherwise so we can pretend to have our jimmies rustled again? What's the point here? I don't think that poll helps anyone, really...

 

[asdfen]

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids
while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

female gamer demographics is much smaller than male world wide not just in the US. It makes sense since game developers are also mostly guys. That does not mean there are no game developers or players who are female.

females are much more social creatures than males just look at the jobs females are in http://www.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2.
Gaming remains an antisocial activity making it not as popular among females

 

[09philj]

Are the stats accurate? Probably not. Should we pretend they're accurate? I think yes. It's for our own good. It's a noble lie.

 

[Phasmal]

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids
while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

Which also works the other way around? Dads buy consoles for kids? Women can own more than one console and even play them.

female gamer demographics is much smaller than male world wide not just in the US. It makes sense since game developers are also mostly guys. That does not mean there are no game developers or players who are female.

females are much more social creatures than males just look at the jobs females are in http://www.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2.
Gaming remains an antisocial activity making it not as popular among females

Spoiler: Me right now

There's dispute over how much the demographics differ. Which is kind of the point in studies like these.

 

[Redryhno]

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids
while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

Which also works the other way around? Dads buy consoles for kids? Women can own more than one console and even play them.

Yeah, but the thing is that these stats are so stupidly arranged if you're going for a "MORE WOMEN PLAY GAMES THAN MEN" statement. There's the simple things like the simple act of owning a console(with all consoles going back thirty years being given equal weight) is being equated with hardcore gaming, when MANY people in this thread have said that they know multiple people and families that didn't get consoles to play games for themselves. The PS2 partly sold so well because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market that had more than one function. The PS3 the cheapest Blu-Ray. All you needed for a party stereo was a 360 and an SDCard adapter or just a disk because it played through the tv while also giving the standard music player music shapes in a pretty central location of most homes. And alot of the marketing for the XBONE was that it was a multi-media device with alot of time devoted to what it could do.

Then there's as you go further down, it talks about how young, tech-minded people with disposable income own more than older, non-tech minded people without as much disposable when it comes to tablets, smartphones, etc. NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

And then the biggest kicker for me is that there's no distinction given for PC Gaming, there's just the stats for who owns PCs, which is a bit of a skewed statistic when we start with the OP's statement. Everyone's owned a computer for the better part of two decades nowadays.

And hell, even if the stats are perfectly arranged and are exactly in conjunction with the OP's statement/opinion/etc, then exactly what is wrong with the gaming industry(an argument that gets brought up constantly in these conversations) that it needs to start catering to women? If more women play than men, then what needs to change? Women are buying and playing, meaning that their needs are being catered to enough that change isn't really needed beyond tweaks.

And tweaks are largely failures in AAA going by history, and not really heard of in the indie community. And sometimes both in the case of Rise of the Tomb Raider(HAHA!).

But I'd like to reiterate, I have no doubts that women game, I simply question if the stats actually say much of anything other than who picked up the phone and that the statistics actually show what is being said.

 

[Something Amyss]

I appreciate that, but yeah, the framing of the questions would be important. If you called my house and my GF answered and you asked her, "Do you own a gaming console," she would answer "Yeah, everything except a PS4 which we're getting this Christmas."

She doesn't play console games. She's a PC gamer.

Just to point out, this is Pew market research we're talking about. A company with a ton of experience in delivering not only trustworthy but useful information. Now, this doesn't mean that they are without flaw, but do you honestly believe that you caught an error in the methodology that they wouldn't have? Have you looked at any of their data sets before or even the questions that they asked?

It seems super unlikely that, given those things, they just slipped up here.

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids

Since it looks as ownership, that's not a very good excuse.

while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

Which isn't a useful counterpoint. Having more than one console doesn't make you more of a sonole gamer.

Not to mention, both of these explanations can apply the other way.

female gamer demographics is much smaller than male world wide not just in the US.

Weird, the numbers keep saying otherwise.

females are much more social creatures than males just look at the jobs females are in http://www.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. This assumes that these must be the jobs women want because they have them. And then assumes that it must be their nature because why else would they want them?

There's also a strong correlation between video games and aggression. Do you believe that, or is that different?

Gaming remains an antisocial activity making it not as popular among females

Which is why there are huge communities built around it.

It's not really antisocial. And you'd see more women present if they weren't actively pushed out.

Are the stats accurate? Probably not. Should we pretend they're accurate? I think yes. It's for our own good. It's a noble lie.

I'm curious as to what metric you used to come to the determination that they're "probably not" true.

 

[kris40k]

Just to point out, this is Pew market research we're talking about. A company with a ton of experience in delivering not only trustworthy but useful information. Now, this doesn't mean that they are without flaw, but do you honestly believe that you caught an error in the methodology that they wouldn't have? Have you looked at any of their data sets before or even the questions that they asked?

It seems super unlikely that, given those things, they just slipped up here.

Well, actually, I just did look more into it. The question was framed," Please tell me if you happen to have each of the following items, or not. Do you have...A game console like Xbox or Play Station"

So yeah, not looking so hot for the framing of the question. I could easily see that being answered as yes as our household has a shitload of consoles in it.

Questions located here. [http://www.pewinternet.org/files/2015/10/PI_2015-10-29_device-ownership_TOPLINE.pdf]

 

[Something Amyss]

I could easily see that being answered as yes as our household has a shitload of consoles in it.

That sounds more like a rationalisation than an expectation.

 

[aba1]

I don't get why feministy types get so upset about the fact that gaming is a primarily male dominated activity. I don't see anybody throwing a temper tantrum over the demographics around the books industry. Fact is women dominate when it comes to reading and writing and it is easily observable. Just look at fanfiction and the culture around that it is almost ENTIRELY women. This doesn't mean men are being discriminated against just that men and women tend to have things that more or less commonly appeal to them and that is ok. Not everything needs a 50/50 parody in participants people should be able to just enjoy what ever they like without people getting upset when some groups like things more often than other groups.

When it comes to gaming most people consider someone to be a gamer if they play a variety of AAA games. That doesn't make women who play their candy crush on their phone not valid. It is just they aren't the same demographics as the people who line up for the latest fallout game and it is just moronic to act like they are the same people.

Nobody is saying women aren't valid gamers it is just a easy observation to see that they on average game far less and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[aba1]

I like how quickly this thread went right to the whole "fake gamer girl" thing without actually calling that. Is there anything that guys get called "fake" for?

I'm not seeing it. But if you want the more universal concept outside of gaming, try "Poseur". You'll find lots of examples.

It's pretty easy to see with most posters doubting the data or suggesting that just because one owns a console, doesn't mean they use it for gaming. It's just another way of saying "fake gamer girls."

XD god forbid people actually question what they are told. I don't get it either man they really need to just shut up, listen and believe

 

[Worgen]

I like how quickly this thread went right to the whole "fake gamer girl" thing without actually calling that. Is there anything that guys get called "fake" for?

I'm not seeing it. But if you want the more universal concept outside of gaming, try "Poseur". You'll find lots of examples.

It's pretty easy to see with most posters doubting the data or suggesting that just because one owns a console, doesn't mean they use it for gaming. It's just another way of saying "fake gamer girls."

XD god forbid people actually question what they are told. I don't get it either man they really need to just shut up, listen and believe

Its not about questioning, it about assumptions. Everyone assumes women don't play games so they assume any study that shows they do is bs.

 

[aba1]

I like how quickly this thread went right to the whole "fake gamer girl" thing without actually calling that. Is there anything that guys get called "fake" for?

I'm not seeing it. But if you want the more universal concept outside of gaming, try "Poseur". You'll find lots of examples.

It's pretty easy to see with most posters doubting the data or suggesting that just because one owns a console, doesn't mean they use it for gaming. It's just another way of saying "fake gamer girls."

XD god forbid people actually question what they are told. I don't get it either man they really need to just shut up, listen and believe

Its not about questioning, it about assumptions. Everyone assumes women don't play games so they assume any study that shows they do is bs.

Doesn't seem like many people are assuming a lot of people here went through the data to confirm the validity of the results. Besides it doesn't take a genius to notice that men just do play far more games. Go to any game release, convention, or game related event and it will be dominated by men. Which doesn't invalidate the women who are there but that is the the demographics that games appeal to. Like I mentioned above women love books and literature far more often than men do and so most books are written to appeal to women and that's ok they are the primary audience. Why do you think fan fiction features so much guy on guy or romance and that pairing is so popular. It is because women simply enjoy fanfiction more than men do. So should be complain that nobody is trying to get more men into fanfiction? No, people like what they like and while its ok to introduce people to new things you can't make people like things either when it doesn't appeal to them.

If more women want to get into gaming that is awesome I don't think anyone would complain in fact I think most people would be happy if for no other reason than it would increase the odds of finding a partner with more in common. You just can't force or trick people into liking things.

 

[Bad Jim]

Apparently this study cited psp and sega genesis as examples of portables. It doesn't look like they know what they're saying all that much.

The portable Genesis is actually a thing, though it was called the Nomad. Not many people bought it, and it is a rare collectors item these days that you wouldn't want to leave on the bus, but Sega did make a portable Genesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Nomad

Also, you can get things like this these days:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301756251235?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Even if I were to grant you all this (which sounds kinda persecution-complexy to me)it STILL doesn't make the points wrong though. Worst case scenario we need to call out more false statistics about men. It still doesn't change the fact about these statistics here being wrong, not one tiny little bit.

Also, who even makes such topics about men, like, ever. Nobody tries to use equally applied studies to show this or that about JUST men or make a point that is only about men doing whatever, thus there's never really any methodology to question in the first place. We just don't even broach the subject when it's specifically only about men, cause we don't care how many men play games.

Really? Because I remember a Christina Hoff Sommers video that made the rounds a while back...lemme see if I can find it.

Heeere we go. Oh fuck just finding it I ended up giving it another click. Oh well. Time to remove more Hoff Sommers from my "recommended" list. I'm a slow learner apparently.


Her argument, basically, is "video games aren't sexist because 99% of gamers are men, LOL @ HIPPY LIBERALS".

This video made the rounds a while back, presented by some parties who shall remain nameless as a nuanced and sensible representation of the demographic split in gaming, and a good example of why we should ignore all these mewling cries for better representation of women. Notably, Hoff Sommers also bills herself as "factual", while stuffing the video with sweeping generalizations, unsubstantiated authoritative statements, and ridiculously overt occasions of poisoning the well.

So...yeah, we make topics about men all the time. In fact, there's a great many users on this forum who make topics about gaming with the DEFAULT ASSUMPTION that the prototypical gamer is male. It's why we had the raging (and idiotic) "Fake Geek Girls" nontroversy not a year or two past. And certain other contentious subjects, which I won't get into here, most definitely dipped their toes into those same frothing waters.

Barbas's assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, there is most definitely a sentiment held by a statistically significant and very vocal population on these boards that gaming is still very much Guy Territory. The argument that default male protagonists and heavily objectified/sexualized female eye candy is "catering to the market" is made with rigorous regularity.

So while I think applying critical thinking to the survey in the OP is very much called for, and ALWAYS called for, I will note that some of the people dismissing it as misleading are among the first to praise strident ideologues like Hoff Sommers for her "impartiality" while she sings them a tune that is more to their liking.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Just because someone owns a gaming console doesn't mean they use it for gaming.

what the fuck would you use a gaming console for other than gaming?

I mean, I know some consoles run hot enough to cook an egg on but just because girls own consoles doesnt mean theyre cooking on them exactly.

This is just more pointless goal post shifting.

Netflix! Maybe single mothers buy consoles for their kids and they don't personally use them. That you thought the poster you responded too meant that women used it for cooking says more about you than anyone else.

My GF uses the PS3 daily, but only for DVD/Blu Ray and Netflix. Our son has his own PS3, 360, PS4 and Nexus 7 but she'll never use those and if she did it would be for Netflix and DVD/Blu Ray playback. Nevertheless, if asked she would admit that she does own those devices since my son didn't pay for them.