Steam Adds Refund Option for Pre-Orders

[Pebkio]

Well, that's not really fair. If you buy a dvd for a movie you wanted to see and the movie isn't as good as you thought would you be able to get a full refund because you didn't like it? No, no one does that. I can see a refund being needed if it's a tech issue but that's a different story. There is such a thing as consumer responsibility, you can't just take back a ham because it didn't taste as good as you thought it would.

Okay, you can say that and it seems rational, but movies are a far less complex thing than a video game and thusly straight-across comparisons are unfair. Gameplay is to a game like the scenes are to a movie.

And so, a better comparison would be if you buy a dvd of a movie that's been sold to you as being a WW2 thriller starring Samuel L Jackson. The trailers show Jackson screaming into a phone while a battle is taking place and other various scenes of war planning and some thrilling glares. Then you find that the movie is actually about a love triangle between Sarah Michelle Gellar, Ben Affleck, and a German Soldier... but happens to take place during WW2 and Jackson is a friend of one of them. You spent the money to buy something only to get another thing that wasn't even shown.

In other words, if the product you bought is so much unlike what was being advertised (in BI's case, by the demo and by the games that came before it) that you feel tricked.

 

[Genocidicles]

GOG lets you get a proper refund. Even Origin lets you get a proper refund.

When you're being outdone by EA, you know you've fucked up.

 

[FancyNick]

Well, that's not really fair. If you buy a dvd for a movie you wanted to see and the movie isn't as good as you thought would you be able to get a full refund because you didn't like it? No, no one does that. I can see a refund being needed if it's a tech issue but that's a different story. There is such a thing as consumer responsibility, you can't just take back a ham because it didn't taste as good as you thought it would.

Okay, you can say that and it seems rational, but movies are a far less complex thing than a video game and thusly straight-across comparisons are unfair. Gameplay is to a game like the scenes are to a movie.

And so, a better comparison would be if you buy a dvd of a movie that's been sold to you as being a WW2 thriller starring Samuel L Jackson. The trailers show Jackson screaming into a phone while a battle is taking place and other various scenes of war planning and some thrilling glares. Then you find that the movie is actually about a love triangle between Sarah Michelle Gellar, Ben Affleck, and a German Soldier... but happens to take place during WW2 and Jackson is a friend of one of them. You spent the money to buy something only to get another thing that wasn't even shown.

In other words, if the product you bought is so much unlike what was being advertised (in BI's case, by the demo and by the games that came before it) that you feel tricked.

Fair enough but the only game that really fits that description in recent memory would be the notorious Aliens: Colonial Marines with it's false "gameplay" footage and bs marketing. For something like that, I would have to agree. But in regards to the original post I replied to, he just didn't like Bioshock infinite because it didn't meet his expectations. The game was not falsely advertised nor was any of the gameplay footage they showed fake. Again, there is a certain level of consumer responsibility with these things. He could have done research or waited awhile after the game was out and read others opinions and considered whether or not the game was worth the risk of buying it. Don't get me wrong, the idea of refunds for steam games is a good one but you can't just play through a whole game, find out you didn't like something about it personally, and go and get a full refund. No developer could ever make money this way as no game is perfect in every way. In regards to false advertising and tech issues though I agree that refunding is good practice.

 

[EiMitch]

The million dollar question is: why weren't they doing this before? If you paid for something you didn't get yet, why shouldn't you be able to get your money back? Why did it take Valve this long to figure out something this simple?

 

[Pebkio]

Fair enough but the only game that really fits that description in recent memory would be the notorious Aliens: Colonial Marines with it's false "gameplay" footage and bs marketing. For something like that, I would have to agree. But in regards to the original post I replied to, he just didn't like Bioshock infinite because it didn't meet his expectations. The game was not falsely advertised nor was any of the gameplay footage they showed fake. Again, there is a certain level of consumer responsibility with these things. He could have done research or waited awhile after the game was out and read others opinions and considered whether or not the game was worth the risk of buying it. Don't get me wrong, the idea of refunds for steam games is a good one but you can't just play through a whole game, find out you didn't like something about it personally, and go and get a full refund. No developer could ever make money this way as no game is perfect in every way. In regards to false advertising and tech issues though I agree that refunding is good practice.

Oh yes, of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtEAED3zgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaU7jWjYvY

The demo of Bioshock Infinite was actually noticably different. You'd think someone, like you, would've, at least, looked into THE ACTUAL CLAIM before dismissing me as the original poster who was only complaining that I just didn't like what we got. No, I did not prepay for a game for the first time ever on a silly whim. They sold us on an idea that they didn't deliver.

The gameplay trailer for Bioshock Infinite is actually, surprisingly, comparable to the Aliens: Colonial Marines trailer.

It's interesting that you talk down on me for not researching when YOU DIDN'T EVEN LOOK INTO ANYTHING AT ALL! You could not have been more wrong. So where is your "consumer responsibility" bull if you aren't even going to practice what you preach?

Edit: And if the actual game was anywhere NEAR as awesome as those trailers made it look, I would still be playing it today with a smile on my face and a warm "this was a good 60 bucks I spent" feeling in my chest.

 

[Cecilo]

Besides the part where you could download a game, copy the games files to a USB. Get a refund, find a crack for the game, put the files back from your USB. And TADA. Instant Free Game.

Wat.

If they were already going to pirate the game, who the hell would bother with this 5-step plan involving a credit card and an external disk?

How about a 2-step plan?

1) Torrent game with crack
2) Install

TADA. Instant free game.

That's basically the whole fallacy of DRM right there... Pirating is easy enough that you can't beat it by being more complicated or annoying.

But torrenting a game runs the risk of getting in trouble while you download that 22gigabyte download now doesn't it. As well as a risk of viruses and malware. Instead finding a crack for a game is quite easy, and while it also runs the risk of viruses and malware, it is only one or two files.

Especially with the new strike program the companies in the US are using. Anything to avoid long torrents is good for those would be pirates.

Further, what are the requirements of a refund? You haven't played for more than an hour? What if a game is only so long, what are the prerequisites for returning a game to steam, does there have to be a community backlash to it? What counts as a "Broken" Product. Was Mass Effect 3 refund material because the ending was hated?

Was Aliens Colonial Marines refund material because you were not actually fighting aliens most of the time (It's bugs and false advertising would be refund worthy however)? Or are you asking for a refund just because it wasn't something you liked?

There are many reasons why having a refund system isn't as simple as "Sure. You can have a refund for any game at any time". And while I didn't explain my point well enough earlier, someone could buy a game, decide they like it, copy it, crack it, get a refund, buy a new game, try that game, refund it. Etc. And this would all be legit, completely avoiding possibly being caught as a pirate.

 

[Sidmen]

So...


This isn't a refund. It's called cancelling a pre-order. You can dress a pig up like a rather convincing cow, but it's still a pig despite the paint and mechanical udder.


A refund, is what gog.com does for it's games. If it has issues and its been less than 30 days, you get your money back. Nitpicky, I know, but still.

So....

You paid for something and was awaiting its delivery. You decided that you no longer want it, and they (re)turn your (fund)s. Refund.

 

[FancyNick]

Fair enough but the only game that really fits that description in recent memory would be the notorious Aliens: Colonial Marines with it's false "gameplay" footage and bs marketing. For something like that, I would have to agree. But in regards to the original post I replied to, he just didn't like Bioshock infinite because it didn't meet his expectations. The game was not falsely advertised nor was any of the gameplay footage they showed fake. Again, there is a certain level of consumer responsibility with these things. He could have done research or waited awhile after the game was out and read others opinions and considered whether or not the game was worth the risk of buying it. Don't get me wrong, the idea of refunds for steam games is a good one but you can't just play through a whole game, find out you didn't like something about it personally, and go and get a full refund. No developer could ever make money this way as no game is perfect in every way. In regards to false advertising and tech issues though I agree that refunding is good practice.

Oh yes, of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtEAED3zgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaU7jWjYvY

The demo of Bioshock Infinite was actually noticably different. You'd think someone, like you, would've, at least, looked into THE ACTUAL CLAIM before dismissing me as the original poster who was only complaining that I just didn't like what we got. No, I did not prepay for a game for the first time ever on a silly whim. They sold us on an idea that they didn't deliver.

The gameplay trailer for Bioshock Infinite is actually, surprisingly, comparable to the Aliens: Colonial Marines trailer.

It's interesting that you talk down on me for not researching when YOU DIDN'T EVEN LOOK INTO ANYTHING AT ALL! You could not have been more wrong. So where is your "consumer responsibility" bull if you aren't even going to practice what you preach?

Edit: And if the actual game was anywhere NEAR as awesome as those trailers made it look, I would still be playing it today with a smile on my face and a warm "this was a good 60 bucks I spent" feeling in my chest.

Woah guy, apologies if it came across that way but I didn't mean to talk down to you. Because you didn't go into detail about how or why you were disappointed with the game I just assumed it was for the reason I stated. My fault, it was wrong of me to do that. However, those trailers you listed were old. One was a year old and the other three and the difference between those trailers and the actual game are not far enough apart to compare it A:CM. Also there were later ones released in 2013 that are closer to the product. Games can change in development. I am not trying to belittle your point or you, I am just trying to argue that consumers have a certain responsibility when they purchase something, whatever it is, and just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean you can use said product completely and then try to return it. With the exception of certain cases such as technical issues, false advertisement, and probably something else I can't think of at the moment. Anyway, I hope I didn't offend you in anyway.

 

[Vigormortis]

Kind of sick of constantly addressing the bevy of misinformation and half-truths that pop up on this topic; many of which are already everywhere in this thread; so I'm not going to address them.

However, I will just say this:
Steam has offered refunds for years. Origin and GoG.com are the newcomers to the practice.

If you had a legitimate issue with a purchased game on Steam, an issue that you felt could only be rectified with a refund, and you contacted Steam Support about it, they more often than not would refund you.

The only difference between that and Origin/GoG's methods are that the latter methods are some amalgam of pseudo-automation and manual support.

But, you know, it's easier to just ***** about Steam not having a thing it actually has than to bother to research the truth.

 

[Metalrocks]

sorry wait. since when is this new???
i have gotten my money back from pre ordered games. ok, this system sounds simpler but not new for steam. i would be rather happy if we can sell the games we dont want.

 

[MrPhyntch]

Okay, you can say that and it seems rational, but movies are a far less complex thing than a video game and thusly straight-across comparisons are unfair. Gameplay is to a game like the scenes are to a movie.

And so, a better comparison would be if you buy a dvd of a movie that's been sold to you as being a WW2 thriller starring Samuel L Jackson. The trailers show Jackson screaming into a phone while a battle is taking place and other various scenes of war planning and some thrilling glares. Then you find that the movie is actually about a love triangle between Sarah Michelle Gellar, Ben Affleck, and a German Soldier... but happens to take place during WW2 and Jackson is a friend of one of them. You spent the money to buy something only to get another thing that wasn't even shown.

In other words, if the product you bought is so much unlike what was being advertised (in BI's case, by the demo and by the games that came before it) that you feel tricked.

Calm down for a sec, buddy. You are blowing the whole thing way out of proportion. As someone who played the BI demo, I'm almost wondering if you actually got the Blowjob Infinite demo instead, because while yes, the demo was notably different (and some gameplay aspects were better), it was nowhere near the glorious gift from above to absolute burn it in hell garbage of a transition as you claim.

A better comparison rather than the extreme example you gave would be a movie that is billed as a hilarious comedy about hilarious things, and every scene in the trailer is incredible and burst out laughing funny. Then you get to the theater, find out the only funny scenes in the movie were in the trailer, and half of those were cut. Oh wait, they make those. All. The. Time.

False advertising in a media product is a very thin line. At what point were your expectations too high, and were you expecting a completely different game than what even the marketers were advertising. Maybe in BI's case it was legit false advertising. I don't believe so, but I'll give you this one for the sake of an argument. But where is the line drawn?

How different is a demo allowed to be? Demos are often made with earlier builds so they can get out sooner, and oftentimes things will be changed in-between. If a demo has to be made out of the final build, or if things can't be changed to make what the dev team thinks makes things better, then suddenly you'll stop seeing demos as they become impossible to make. How about trailers? I've never once seen a game trailer that was actually indicative of the final product, even when they showed gameplay. So how different are they allowed to be from the final product?

You're treading a very thin line, and I feel you're demanding it be drawn well into the side of "I didn't like it, I want my money back".

 

[Strazdas]

Its a long way till a decent refund policy for them but looks like first step is taken. Lets just hope our lord GabeN wont be cruel with us.

This does sound good, but valve still has a long way to go before actually having a true refund. This is nothing.

Refund for a game your purchased that you can't play yet? AND it only goes to your steam wallet? Meh. Not even close to a good refund policy.

Could you imagine the games industry's reaction if we could actually get a decent refund policy? They might have to work to make sure a game lasts longer than 5 hours then - heck, a lot of games I play could've been returned within a day of release with how painfully short and boring they are.

Ironicly, EAs Origin store has a decent refund policy.....

Why would any one pre-order anything on Steam? Is it just because of the pre-load option? Even then how long does it take to download a game and how impatient can someone be?

preorder bonuses. you know, preorder now and get a costume that noone else will get and stuff like that. baiscally why people preorder steam or not steam.

Besides the part where you could download a game, copy the games files to a USB. Get a refund, find a crack for the game, put the files back from your USB. And TADA. Instant Free Game.

When GOG announced they'd be allowing refunds they mentioned this in fact.

Why do all this pointless trouble though? You could downloade a cracked copy (and one exists at the same tiem you can download a crack anyway, so thats a nonissue) straight away and dont even go through the whole refunding process. Your idea sounds needlessly complicated and anyone that actually wants to do this illegal act of piracy already can without a refund policy.

I think it's much more likely to be Valve dragging their feet. Refunding digital items is tricky*, because any sort of decent time period opens people up to 'renting' all their games. A lot of the reason the system works at retail is there's a lot of hassle involved in getting a refund, you've got to actually pack a physical thing up and travel some place... You'd need to invent some system that doesn't make it easy for people to ask for a refund w/e, but then that probably costs manpower.

considering that on steam valve tracks thier games quite thoroughly they could easily implement progress/time spent requirements as in you cant just finish a game and reund it. if you play it for 2 hours and hate it - sure refund away. play it for 50 hours in a weekend, finish it and refund it - nope. And that would even be more reliable than retail refunding since retails dont actually know if you just spent last week playing it whol day long or not, steam does.

Urghh no that would suck. I don't have so much time that I want to throw it down the drain or dedicate my whole life to playing videogames. If companies were incentivised to pad out all their freaking games, regardless of whether it's better as a 5 hour game or a 30 hour one, everything would either become incredibly cruddy, or we'd lose all the game genres except for one type that certain people like. There'd be no Journey or Gone Home or Stanley Parable, or even Uncharted. It's fine if you're only into multiplayer games, or if you actually like having to spend a month playing before getting to the end of your RPG but otherwise you'd be screwed.

then i take you dont remmeber when we had shooters that would take 20 hours to complete because they would actually have long campaigns?

Please, Someone tell me the scenario that would require you to need a refund so i can understand.

Aliens: Colonial marines.
They lied about the game. they showed fake footage. many people bought it based on false advertisement.

Another example is all those games that come out broken to the point it doesnt even work on some hardware, and thus peopel buy it and cant play it. Also games that are so poorly optimized you want to slap the programmer (GTA4 in particular).

But torrenting a game runs the risk of getting in trouble while you download that 22gigabyte download now doesn't it. As well as a risk of viruses and malware. Instead finding a crack for a game is quite easy, and while it also runs the risk of viruses and malware, it is only one or two files.

Especially with the new strike program the companies in the US are using. Anything to avoid long torrents is good for those would be pirates.

No, you dont. There is practicaly no risk torrenting a file. in most country it is not even illegal to download one - illegal only to upload it. noone was ever jailed for downloading a file, there was few (think less than 10) cases of uploaders getting punishment, and even then it was the cases like that grandma with 13 sons getting ined for 260.000 dollars and not any real piracy crushing charges.
Virus and malware risk is pretty much nonexistent as long as you use products of the more famous groups. i dont even remmeber last time i heard a virus infected crack story, and even then, by your model o downloading only crack you run the exact same risk of viruses anyway, so the point is moot.

Do tell me what kind of strike program that is? is that the 3 strikes - no internet one? because that never worked here in europe.

 

[DarklordKyo]

So...


This isn't a refund. It's called cancelling a pre-order. You can dress a pig up like a rather convincing cow, but it's still a pig despite the paint and mechanical udder.


A refund, is what gog.com does for it's games. If it has issues and its been less than 30 days, you get your money back. Nitpicky, I know, but still.

While that is true, it's a step in the right direction at least.

 

[A-D.]

How is this news exactly? Steam has already been doing that, although beforehand you had to go through customer support to get there, but it was actually already doable to get a refund on a pre-order. Whats hard is getting a refund for any other game that isnt a pre-order, though Valve so far has had the unspoken policy of "once, but no more" in terms of refunds unless you can quote them the law of your respective country that tells them they dont have a legal leg to stand on.

Point still stands, you could cancel pre-orders before this already and get your money back, it just wasnt a system within the client yet, so how them making it easier to do what they always did is "news" is beyond me. Thats like making a news article about how water in a bottle is just bottled water. We already knew this.

Also for those who moan about a potential real refund-policy that can be abused, everything can be abused. However Valve has the upside that they can actually check how long you've played the game, or whether you played it at all. A System based around this is relatively simple.
1: Has it been installed within 30 days of purchase? If not, full refund.
2: Has it been installed but not been played beyond 2 Hours within 2 Days? If yes, full refund (faulty product).
3: Is it a gift? If yes, no refund.
4: Has it been played for more than 5 Hours since purchase? Partial Refund (semi-rental)
5: Has it been played for more than 10 Hours? If yes, no refund.

Valve can check how long you've played a game, hence you cant easily abuse this, if they however allow partial refunds, like getting half your cash back, it allows a semi-rental system that still makes money. Hence if you want to return short games because they are short, or the experience is underwhelming about halfway in, you still can get half your money back, which is a better system than what EA does.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

Oh yes, of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtEAED3zgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaU7jWjYvY

The demo of Bioshock Infinite was actually noticably different. You'd think someone, like you, would've, at least, looked into THE ACTUAL CLAIM before dismissing me as the original poster who was only complaining that I just didn't like what we got. No, I did not prepay for a game for the first time ever on a silly whim. They sold us on an idea that they didn't deliver.

The gameplay trailer for Bioshock Infinite is actually, surprisingly, comparable to the Aliens: Colonial Marines trailer.

It's interesting that you talk down on me for not researching when YOU DIDN'T EVEN LOOK INTO ANYTHING AT ALL! You could not have been more wrong. So where is your "consumer responsibility" bull if you aren't even going to practice what you preach?

Edit: And if the actual game was anywhere NEAR as awesome as those trailers made it look, I would still be playing it today with a smile on my face and a warm "this was a good 60 bucks I spent" feeling in my chest.

I disagree actually. And heres why. The reason Alien: Colonial Marines was called out for false advertising was because there were objectively diffierent things shown in the demo/gameplay footage to the final product, things not based on opinion.

In Aliens the actual game, the animation quality, graphical quality, particle effects etc were all noticeably worse than what was advertised. These are things we can MEASURE things we can objectively show that are different from the final product.

What you are saying is "I like the the look/feel/style of the gameplay/world etc in the trailer more compared to the actual product". That isnt false advertising, that is you having a different opinion. The graphical quality, setting, graphical style, basic characters,weapons and abilities are all present in the final product.

Personally I like the trailer, but I would not want to play the exact game in that trailer. It looks heavily scripted and I would find it boring, and I love the actual product. Thats having an opinion, not the developers lying to you about an objective quality about the game.

OT: To everyone saying this isnt enough, I also disagree. I think you should be able to get a refund in only 2 circumstances. If the product is falsely advertised in some way, or through bugs/etc you are unable to play the game.

If you don't like it, if you thought it would be different, that to me isn't good enough. Valve should stick to what is legally required, and what is legally required is when the product either does not work, or was incorrectly described. They should NOT be giving the possibility for gamers to be able to play a game and then return it without a good reason. And saying "I didnt like it" is not a good reason.

OT Further: Good first steps.

 

[Vigormortis]

sorry wait. since when is this new???
i have gotten my money back from pre ordered games. ok, this system sounds simpler but not new for steam. i would be rather happy if we can sell the games we dont want.

It's new in the sense that it's fully automated now. No involvement from Steam Support.

Still, I agree. Refunds and such have been a part of Steam for years. Why anyone's making a big deal out of this, and for that matter why anyone still thinks Steam doesn't have refund options, is beyond me.

 

[Eve Charm]

Next we need returns on Early access games that come out in barely playable states with no content. Come on!

But ya steam should inact a small window for a refund if a game doesn't have a demo.

 

[mirage202]

The only part of this that is new is the funds going directly into your Steam wallet and not back to your bank account.

Steam has allowed cancellation of pre-orders for years. Why is this only being mentioned now? If it's a Valve press release then it smacks of trying to get a little more positive PR.

 

[LadyLightning]

What Valve really needs to do is allow customers to sell used games from our Steam libraries back to Steam for 70% of the price we paid for it, or the game's current normal price when it's not on sale, whichever is lower. If you bought a $60 game for $50 on the Steam Summer Sale, you get 70% of $50 if you return it, which would come out to $35. If you decided to keep that game for 2 years before returning it, when new copies of that game only cost $20, you would only get $20 for returning it.

Regardless of when you choose to return a game, doing so would uninstall it from your computer, remove it from your Steam library, and invalidate any serials or keys associated with your copy of the game. If you decided later on that you wanted to play that game again, you would need to purchase a new copy.

There also needs to be a short window of time immediately after purchasing in which you can return it for 100% of the price you paid - a safety net for customers against buying shitty games because they had no opportunity to try it for themselves before shelling out money for it. This window of time should be something like a week - sufficiently long to allow you to get a feel for whether or not you think the game in question is worth the price you paid, but sufficiently short that you don't have a lot of time to log into your Steam account on all your friends' computers and let them play it.

If Valve were to implement these two features, Steam customers would be able to return older games they don't want anymore for a discount on new ones, as well as feel safer buying new games on release day, because if you decide that it's a shitty game in the first week of playing it, you can get your money back.