Steam Revokes 7,000 Stolen Sniper Elite 3 Keys

[RicoADF]

It's not a small amount of cash even discounted to say $10 a copy right now that is a loss of $70,000. Full price it's around $350,000. I think the lesson here is simple, buyer beware. If you are buying from some unknown website that has only been around for a short period of time, maybe the couple of dollars saved isn't worth it. It sucks but I thing everyone has gone through this from time to time getting ripped off by criminals. It sucks but you hopefully learn from it and make better decision in the future.

From what I've read it sounds like it's not small time untrustworthy stores but rather larger ones like Green Man Gaming, ones that have a proven record as a reliable and trustworthy source for games. As such I would expect they would honor the refund and chase the theives themselves.

 

[Blaze the Dragon]

I don't see how this is up for debate as an issue really, at least to me Steam is perfectly in the right in doing this, it kinda sucks for the people who basically had their money stolen, but I wouldn't want to be mugged in the street either. Think of it like this to make it more personal:

You have a fancy watch, and your watch gets stolen. A day later the guy who stole your watch sells it to someone who doesn't know it's stolen, and pays $100 for it. Eventually everything is sorted out and the watch is found to be stolen, now:

1) Should the third person keep the watch they bought? No, it was your watch and it is still your property, the second person had no right to be selling it.
2) Should you pay the third man back for taking back your watch? No, why should you have to pay for the second person's crime?
3) Should the third person be compensated? Yes, the third person should be compensated, but not by the victim of the crime. If the second person is caught, he will be the one returning the money to the third party.

After all, if the first person, or steam in this case, had to pay back the cost of the product stolen from them, then the original crime might as well have still happened, they would still be losing the same amount of money equivalent, so that in no way fixes the problem of the original crime. And dealing with digital goods doesn't change anything in this case.

 

[Alpha Maeko]

There's nothing wrong with looking for a cheaper alternative.

But I do find it funny how absolutely no necessary information was provided about where these stolen keys were being sold from. Otherwise, we're just stabbing in the dark about whether this is ethical or not.

Bought it from somewhere reputable and trustworthy like GOG/D2D? You should be compensated by them for your trouble, unless they just want to alienate their customers.

Otherwise, you're just the moron who took the risk by getting that banana bread from the crooked fellow in the backstreet instead of just ponying up at an actual retailer. Stop being a dumb-dumb.

 

[Albino Boo]

From what I've read it sounds like it's not small time untrustworthy stores but rather larger ones like Green Man Gaming, ones that have a proven record as a reliable and trustworthy source for games. As such I would expect they would honor the refund and chase the theives themselves.

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

 

[Britpoint]

It's hardly the customer's fault that the sites they trusted were hocking stolen goods?

This isn't a case of 'buyer beware' as most of the victims in this case bought the keys from legitimate sites...

If legitimate sites are selling stolen keys then they are not legitimate sites. That's kinda the definition of 'legitimate'.

You're correct in that in isn't the consumers fault that they got burned, or at least no entirely, but it isn't Rebellion or Steams fault either. If people want a refund they need to try and get it off the company that sold them the stolen key, not the company that had the key stolen from them.

"I'm sorry sir, that car you purchased from that dodgy dealer was stolen. We're taking it back to its rightful owner."
"What? That's outrageous! I demand the rightful owner buys his own car back from me!"

 

[TaboriHK]

"Get refunds from thieves" is about the most condescending advice Valve could give.

 

[webkilla]

Protip from someone with a cop in the family: (I'm sure I'm not the only one with that here)

If you buy stolen goods, without knowing that it was stolen - that is, you did so in good faith... not out of the trunk of drug-dealer steeve's buick... then you won't get prosecuted for doing so.

But you still have to surrender the stolen goods.

And you do NOT get a refund from the original manufacturer. At best you can try to get a refund from the black/grey market dealer you got the thing from. Indeed, get refunds from thieves - not a likely prospect.


I have no pity for the people who fell for this. Steam has dirt cheap sales as is, and if you want a game at launch you know that you'll have to pay more for that.

 

[TheAsterite]

It's hardly the customer's fault that the sites they trusted were hocking stolen goods?

This isn't a case of 'buyer beware' as most of the victims in this case bought the keys from legitimate sites...

If legitimate sites are selling stolen keys then they are not legitimate sites. That's kinda the definition of 'legitimate'.

You're correct in that in isn't the consumers fault that they got burned, or at least no entirely, but it isn't Rebellion or Steams fault either. If people want a refund they need to try and get it off the company that sold them the stolen key, not the company that had the key stolen from them.

"I'm sorry sir, that car you purchased from that dodgy dealer was stolen. We're taking it back to its rightful owner."
"What? That's outrageous! I demand the rightful owner buys his own car back from me!"

GMG isn't a legitimate site? News to me.

 

[CelestDaer]

I just don't get why people stole a game that was posted free on Steam a couple weeks ago... that's where I got my copy of it. I also don't see why Steam would be acting the way they are when it was free, even if for only a day...?
Edit: Never mind, I thought this was about Sniper 2...

 

[Hydrahunter]

It warms the cockles of my heart to see so many people who understand that the victim shouldn't be punished twice. (Rebellion is the primary victim here)

 

[Zeckt]

From what I've read it sounds like it's not small time untrustworthy stores but rather larger ones like Green Man Gaming, ones that have a proven record as a reliable and trustworthy source for games. As such I would expect they would honor the refund and chase the theives themselves.

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

The fact is, if they bought from one of those sites they WILL get their refunds so that's invalid.

 

[Albino Boo]

From what I've read it sounds like it's not small time untrustworthy stores but rather larger ones like Green Man Gaming, ones that have a proven record as a reliable and trustworthy source for games. As such I would expect they would honor the refund and chase the theives themselves.

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

The fact is, if they bought from one of those sites they WILL get their refunds so that's invalid.

No there is no legal duty to refund the money, end of story.

 

[Britpoint]

It's hardly the customer's fault that the sites they trusted were hocking stolen goods?

This isn't a case of 'buyer beware' as most of the victims in this case bought the keys from legitimate sites...

If legitimate sites are selling stolen keys then they are not legitimate sites. That's kinda the definition of 'legitimate'.

You're correct in that in isn't the consumers fault that they got burned, or at least no entirely, but it isn't Rebellion or Steams fault either. If people want a refund they need to try and get it off the company that sold them the stolen key, not the company that had the key stolen from them.

"I'm sorry sir, that car you purchased from that dodgy dealer was stolen. We're taking it back to its rightful owner."
"What? That's outrageous! I demand the rightful owner buys his own car back from me!"

GMG isn't a legitimate site? News to me.

Well GMG wasn't selling any stolen keys, as you can see here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

 

[Karnesdorff]

Plus, I would imagine that, if any stolen keys were sold on legitimate websites, like GMG or others, they'd be pretty good about giving out refunds. Who'd buy from them again if they weren't?

However, I suspect the people affected by this aren't shouting at the sellers they got these keys from because, in all honesty, they may have suspected at the time that getting really big discount on a brand new game from 'www.ivanstotallynotstolensteamkeys.com' wasn't actually on the level to begin with, but decided to do it anyway. Or, in a moment of stupidity, didn't stop to think for a moment if this was really on the level. If I'm in the pub and someone offers to sell me an iPhone 5s for £50, there's a chance it's legit sure, but how likely is that really?

Buying online or buying in real life the same rule applies, if something looks too good to be true. It is.

K.

 

[antipunt]

Annnnd there is 7000 more people who will probably go pirate the game now. Good call Rebellion.

Truth. I bet that day 100s of 'new pirates' were freshly spawned out of rage and resentment. It's just the little push they need to justify their first act.

 

[J Tyran]

From what I've read it sounds like it's not small time untrustworthy stores but rather larger ones like Green Man Gaming, ones that have a proven record as a reliable and trustworthy source for games. As such I would expect they would honor the refund and chase the theives themselves.

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

The fact is, if they bought from one of those sites they WILL get their refunds so that's invalid.

No there is no legal duty to refund the money, end of story.

Depends on how you paid, if you used a card of some kind and you inform them the retailer sold you stolen goods they will be more than happy to reverse the transaction so a "refund" doesn't need consent.

 

[Albino Boo]

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

The fact is, if they bought from one of those sites they WILL get their refunds so that's invalid.[/quote]

No there is no legal duty to refund the money, end of story.[/quote]

Depends on how you paid, if you used a card of some kind and you inform them the retailer sold you stolen goods they will be more than happy to reverse the transaction so a "refund" doesn't need consent.[/quote]

You are incorrect, the card company is under an obligation to refund your money but the retailer is not under an obligation to to repay the card company. The transaction is not reversed, the card company carries the risk and has to pursue a civil claim if it wants to get its money back.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

A shit situation all around. Ya can't really blame Rebellion for protecting themselves, can you? As others have said, they're the original victims here.

Although it really sucks for those customers who were burnt by this, the bottom line is that they spent money on products stolen from Rebellion. It sucks, it really does, and it's probably of no fault to the consumers who just wanted to save a few bucks on a game they were interested in. But that's the way the metaphorical cookie has crumbled here.

I feel for the consumers both sides here. Rebellion had their product stolen from them. And consumers had their money stolen from them. What a mess.

 

[-Torchedini-]

It's hardly the customer's fault that the sites they trusted were hocking stolen goods?

This isn't a case of 'buyer beware' as most of the victims in this case bought the keys from legitimate sites...

why are legit sites selling stolen keys? if customers are finding really cheap steam cd keys of a brand new game then they should be suspicious.

At any rate, if the companies that sold the stolen keys are legitimate companies then if anyone should be offering refunds it is them. If they know who sold them the stolen keys they could then pursue legal action against the thieves.

I have no interest in speculating why, nor did I make any claims as to who should be offering refunds.

I'm saying that this was not the case of someone dealing with a russian through steam-trading. This was people buying the keys from sites that were tested, tried and true. I'd be pretty miffed if say the humble bundle keys for steam turned out to be stolen and I were banned/lost my games because of it.

and yet, the keys were stolen.

so the site that sold these keys were not legitimate in any sense of the word.

Stop using that word.

You do not know it's meaning evidently.


OT: If I buy a car from someone for, say, about $500, pretty junky and stuff, and then it turns out it's stolen, I do not get to keep that car, and I could possibly get in trouble for possession of stolen property. That applies to anything stolen.

I dont see how this is anything different, if you buy something that is stolen, you do not get to keep that stolen item when you get caught.

The fun thing being, here in the Netherlands there is a bit more protection.
(this is in the car thing, don't know how it applies to digital products/licenses)

If you have bought a car that turns out to be stolen, you get to keep it, as long as a couple of statements are being met.
First. As a buyer you did not know that the car was stolen, price was reasonable, you trusted the seller.
Second. The request is done after 3 years. (so basically if something is stolen from you you have 3 years to find it or you lost it forever) (of course this doesn't apply here because the game is not even 3 years old)

So you see, there are a lot of different laws out there.

I think that thievery is a scapegoat here though, Probably the resellers that have cheap pricing use regional price differences and this didn't sit well with Rebellion. Most consumers with revoked keys are going to get their money back from the store and hurt their revenue/profit.
I suppose there are a couple stolen keys in there but not all of them.

 

[J Tyran]

You are incorrect, the card company is under an obligation to refund your money but the retailer is not under an obligation to to repay the card company. The transaction is not reversed, the card company carries the risk and has to pursue a civil claim if it wants to get its money back.

With Charge backs they actually yank the money back, they don't ask nicely you know... They will notify that the bank the company uses to put a hold on the account for the amount of money they want to recover, as soon as thats done the money is recovered.

The only way around that is complete fraud where they will clear out their accounts and have no further transactions through that account. A Charge back isn't a refund in the traditional sense, its to resolve serious issues like goods not showing up and things like this and "obligation" doesn't come into it.