Steve Jobs Raged Over Bungie Acquisition

[CrystalShadow]

Spoiler: snip

It worked out. Microsoft got to make some games, and Mac gets to sell to hipsters who are used to paying for overpriced junk from all of their time spent in coffee shops.

Yeah, you've really got me down pat. I'm such a hipster, and I pay $12 for a latte. Yeah, I'm going to go drive my iCar to the coffee shop right now and go hip the place up like crazy. I'll bring my Macbook and totally not run almost all PC games through Wine, and then I'll go rub my iPod all over my face for good measure.
Because that's TOTALLY what Mac users do.

You used that iPod line before. Quit cheaping out on the wit.

People who buy makes pretty much are spending money for convenience. So you can't exactly act indignant when someone suggests Mactards are too eager to consume soon to be worthless overpriced equipment.

Let's take a look at my track record:
The last PC I had lasted for a year, and I had to reformat the hard drive 12 times. The hard drive was replaced twice, too. The motherboard was also a lemon, and I had to go get it replaced.
The PC before that was my attempt to go, "Hey, I should do the smart thing and build a computer for myself!" The damn thing broke within the first week of my having it. My father then took it and gutted it, taking all the parts for himself.
The PC before that was a Dell. It lasted a fairly long time, but it stopped producing audio within the second year of my owning it. It petered out a year after that.
The computer before that died in five months. It was a laptop, and the hard drive just broke one day, apparently. Two different tech guys told us they couldn't fix it.
The computer before that was the first computer that was really mine, and the mother board and power source randomly fried. I don't know the details.

I've also gone through nine cell phones in three years, and 12 MP3 players in five.
I have bad luck with electronics.
I tried Apple out of desperation, and to my suprise, it has worked for me. I've only had to reformat the hard drive twice on this thing, and I've gone over a year now with it. I've been able to get everything I want out of this computer, from art programs to video games, without a hitch. I'm happy with it. It works for me. I'm not saying PCs are inferior by any means. I'm perfectly fine with most people preferring PCs, and I generally recommend people to go for PCs. But Mac works for me.

I have my reasons for preferring Macs in my personal situation. But I really shouldn't need reasons for having a personal opinion if I'm not hurting anyone because of it. I'd just appreciate getting a little bit of tolerance for my personal opinion, rather than be generalized and insulted for it.

Is that really too much to ask of the Escapist?

As much as I hate Mac fanaticism, this isn't fanaticism, it's sense. Mac products are great at just working. They some how just make themselves idiot-proof (Not calling you an idiot Erana). When you need something to work more than having higher, complex functions, then Macs are the answer. After all, how are you even going to miss those higher, complex functions if you can't get the simple ones to work either?

And for the record, I don't hate Macs as much as the people love them like they are the best thing since sliced bread. It's just like how I hate Halo fanboys: you are allowed to love something, but don't say it's the best thing ever if something else did it better, and don't get insulted when some one else points this out.

You know, that's kind of ironic because I've broken or crashed most macs I've ever touched or worked with for more than 5 minutes.

Personally, that has put me off the things because I can fix just about any PC problem I come across (even really serious stuff), but can't do the same with a mac.

So I ironically don't trust macs because I find them unreliable and impossible to fix. XD

The consequences of random luck can be weird.

 

[Optimystic]

Anyone that rich is not allowed to be angry. Not allowed.

I agree - and certainly not over a game studio.

Oh wow, Bungie solds millions of Xbox units. Since when does Apple care about games anyway?

 

[Unrulyhandbag]

Interesting to think how modern gaming would be different had that acquisition not happened. Think about it, Halo was the main reason xbox won that round of the console wars. Had it been released on PC/Mac it may have either given a second wind to the PC market and made Macs more game friendly, or vanished into relative obscurity.

More interesting; what if Bungie had been able to finish that intriguing game for PC and Mac that they showed off to several magazines. It was going to be an open world action adventure that loaded the world on the fly as you moved about instead of in levels. It was going to have never before seen animation quality and a world roughly based on Nivens books. Better still it was going to have tactical multiplayer elements. They called it Halo.

After that they could have pursued any project that popped into their heads.

Instead we got an above average shooter and a decade of tie ins. As good as the Halo games may be you have to wonder what that studio could have been doing and where their action adventure game would have driven the industry.

edit: and at a Macworld convention, where Bungie first previewed it, Mr Jobs seemed very excited. Not surprised he got pissed by Microsoft's buyout.

 

[Adzma]

Awww poor little Steve Jobs had a hissy fit. God I hate that man.

 

[Signa]

Spoiler: snip

It worked out. Microsoft got to make some games, and Mac gets to sell to hipsters who are used to paying for overpriced junk from all of their time spent in coffee shops.

Yeah, you've really got me down pat. I'm such a hipster, and I pay $12 for a latte. Yeah, I'm going to go drive my iCar to the coffee shop right now and go hip the place up like crazy. I'll bring my Macbook and totally not run almost all PC games through Wine, and then I'll go rub my iPod all over my face for good measure.
Because that's TOTALLY what Mac users do.

You used that iPod line before. Quit cheaping out on the wit.

People who buy makes pretty much are spending money for convenience. So you can't exactly act indignant when someone suggests Mactards are too eager to consume soon to be worthless overpriced equipment.

Let's take a look at my track record:
The last PC I had lasted for a year, and I had to reformat the hard drive 12 times. The hard drive was replaced twice, too. The motherboard was also a lemon, and I had to go get it replaced.
The PC before that was my attempt to go, "Hey, I should do the smart thing and build a computer for myself!" The damn thing broke within the first week of my having it. My father then took it and gutted it, taking all the parts for himself.
The PC before that was a Dell. It lasted a fairly long time, but it stopped producing audio within the second year of my owning it. It petered out a year after that.
The computer before that died in five months. It was a laptop, and the hard drive just broke one day, apparently. Two different tech guys told us they couldn't fix it.
The computer before that was the first computer that was really mine, and the mother board and power source randomly fried. I don't know the details.

I've also gone through nine cell phones in three years, and 12 MP3 players in five.
I have bad luck with electronics.
I tried Apple out of desperation, and to my suprise, it has worked for me. I've only had to reformat the hard drive twice on this thing, and I've gone over a year now with it. I've been able to get everything I want out of this computer, from art programs to video games, without a hitch. I'm happy with it. It works for me. I'm not saying PCs are inferior by any means. I'm perfectly fine with most people preferring PCs, and I generally recommend people to go for PCs. But Mac works for me.

I have my reasons for preferring Macs in my personal situation. But I really shouldn't need reasons for having a personal opinion if I'm not hurting anyone because of it. I'd just appreciate getting a little bit of tolerance for my personal opinion, rather than be generalized and insulted for it.

Is that really too much to ask of the Escapist?

As much as I hate Mac fanaticism, this isn't fanaticism, it's sense. Mac products are great at just working. They some how just make themselves idiot-proof (Not calling you an idiot Erana). When you need something to work more than having higher, complex functions, then Macs are the answer. After all, how are you even going to miss those higher, complex functions if you can't get the simple ones to work either?

And for the record, I don't hate Macs as much as the people love them like they are the best thing since sliced bread. It's just like how I hate Halo fanboys: you are allowed to love something, but don't say it's the best thing ever if something else did it better, and don't get insulted when some one else points this out.

You know, that's kind of ironic because I've broken or crashed most macs I've ever touched or worked with for more than 5 minutes.

Personally, that has put me off the things because I can fix just about any PC problem I come across (even really serious stuff), but can't do the same with a mac.

So I ironically don't trust macs because I find them unreliable and impossible to fix. XD

The consequences of random luck can be weird.

Agreed. Just look at the recent Fallout: NV thread about how some people are experiencing game breaking bugs while others are only seeing insects stuck in the floor from time to time.

 

[lacktheknack]

Anyone that rich is not allowed to be angry. Not allowed.

Your tune would change if you were rich.

OT: Increasingly, I'm finding that I expect this sort of thing from Steve Jobs.

 

[lacktheknack]

Spoiler: snip

It worked out. Microsoft got to make some games, and Mac gets to sell to hipsters who are used to paying for overpriced junk from all of their time spent in coffee shops.

Yeah, you've really got me down pat. I'm such a hipster, and I pay $12 for a latte. Yeah, I'm going to go drive my iCar to the coffee shop right now and go hip the place up like crazy. I'll bring my Macbook and totally not run almost all PC games through Wine, and then I'll go rub my iPod all over my face for good measure.
Because that's TOTALLY what Mac users do.

You used that iPod line before. Quit cheaping out on the wit.

People who buy makes pretty much are spending money for convenience. So you can't exactly act indignant when someone suggests Mactards are too eager to consume soon to be worthless overpriced equipment.

Let's take a look at my track record:
The last PC I had lasted for a year, and I had to reformat the hard drive 12 times. The hard drive was replaced twice, too. The motherboard was also a lemon, and I had to go get it replaced.
The PC before that was my attempt to go, "Hey, I should do the smart thing and build a computer for myself!" The damn thing broke within the first week of my having it. My father then took it and gutted it, taking all the parts for himself.
The PC before that was a Dell. It lasted a fairly long time, but it stopped producing audio within the second year of my owning it. It petered out a year after that.
The computer before that died in five months. It was a laptop, and the hard drive just broke one day, apparently. Two different tech guys told us they couldn't fix it.
The computer before that was the first computer that was really mine, and the mother board and power source randomly fried. I don't know the details.

I've also gone through nine cell phones in three years, and 12 MP3 players in five.
I have bad luck with electronics.
I tried Apple out of desperation, and to my suprise, it has worked for me. I've only had to reformat the hard drive twice on this thing, and I've gone over a year now with it. I've been able to get everything I want out of this computer, from art programs to video games, without a hitch. I'm happy with it. It works for me. I'm not saying PCs are inferior by any means. I'm perfectly fine with most people preferring PCs, and I generally recommend people to go for PCs. But Mac works for me.

I have my reasons for preferring Macs in my personal situation. But I really shouldn't need reasons for having a personal opinion if I'm not hurting anyone because of it. I'd just appreciate getting a little bit of tolerance for my personal opinion, rather than be generalized and insulted for it.

Is that really too much to ask of the Escapist?

As much as I hate Mac fanaticism, this isn't fanaticism, it's sense. Mac products are great at just working. They some how just make themselves idiot-proof (Not calling you an idiot Erana). When you need something to work more than having higher, complex functions, then Macs are the answer. After all, how are you even going to miss those higher, complex functions if you can't get the simple ones to work either?

And for the record, I don't hate Macs as much as the people love them like they are the best thing since sliced bread. It's just like how I hate Halo fanboys: you are allowed to love something, but don't say it's the best thing ever if something else did it better, and don't get insulted when some one else points this out.

Huh... Mom won't me near her Mac, as it spazzes out if I so much as breathe at it.

It took me TWLEVE YEARS to make PCs bend to my will, so I'm not in a hurry to go and force a new OS to obey me. Especially not if I can't pull it apart in rage and put it back together (Mom has an iMac).

 

[The Cheezy One]

Anyone that rich is not allowed to be angry. Not allowed.

Your tune would change if you were rich.

OT: Increasingly, I'm finding that I expect this sort of thing from Steve Jobs.

Indeed it woud, but right now I'm poor (relative, not actual) and self righteous, rather than rich and hypocritical
I'm generally just a bad person

 

[Baldr]

Bungie first approached Microsoft about releasing a version of the game for the new console. Microsoft came back and loved the game idea so much they offered to buy the studio. It is not like Microsoft bought the studio just to spite Apple.

Taking away one of the foremost game developers away from Apple when it had a very limited game selection? Yeah, I'm sure only a little bit of it had to do with competitively rearranging the marketplace.

There were other factors in place, first Bungie made a huge mistake, their new game Myth II had shipped with a bug that could erase a whole hard drive and had to do a recall on all those game. That really messed up their financial stability and were semi-actively looking to find someone to buy them. Activision had made an offer, but it wasn't that great.

Without Microsoft Bungie probably would not have never survived to put Halo out on an Apple.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Watch out, Jobs is throwing a hissyfit, maybe he'll drop support to a full line of Macs... again.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

There were other factors in place, first Bungie made a huge mistake, their new game Myth II had shipped with a bug that could erase a whole hard drive and had to do a recall on all those game. That really messed up their financial stability and were semi-actively looking to find someone to buy them. Activision had made an offer, but it wasn't that great.

Without Microsoft Bungie probably would not have never survived to put Halo out on an Apple.

I don't think it was that tight; Jason Jones said that the sale wasn't necessary for the studio's survival, but that it added stability. I do think that Halo benefited from the sale, in that Bungie could devote more resources to completing the game and polishing it than they could've as an independant studio.

I'll also chip in something that came up in casual conversation* with a former Bungie employee; Jobs knew full well that Bungie had an offer from Microsoft long before the deal closed. Indeed, Apple had the opportunity to make a counteroffer... and didn't respond, either to make one or to decline. To have Jobs flip his lid and do the harang-outan on Balmer afterward merely reflects further on Jobs' lack of professionalism, in my opinion.

I also think that if Apple/Jobs had been serious about keeping gaming on the Apple they wouldn't have kept diddling their graphics developers.

-- Steve

*ie: not for attribution, so I'll decline to name names... I'd also rather have some more confirmation before citing this formally.

edited 1:07pm to add: Oddly enough, here's another perspective [http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/10/jobs-turned-down-bungie-at-first-how-microsoft-burned-apple.ars] on the buy-out from a different ex-Bungie staffer. It differs in detail from the version I'd heard, but not hugely.

 

[Silver Patriot]

I remember when that happened. Halo was supposed to be the first major game for OSX which was just coming out. So yeah, I was kind of bummed. It would've been cool as a Mac/PC game and yes, I think they would have been more polished games if they were made that way. It seems like Microsoft might have rushed the rest of the franchise. And yes, I suppose if you're the sort to pull the 'master race card' Macs would count, it's really about a computer vs. a gaming console. I don't think the OS is factor in that argument.

But then again, how many people would have owned Macs AND be gamers at that time? Not very much I believe.

Actually quite a few. This was the mid-late '90s. In 1996 Quake hit the PC market and was ported to Mac in early 1997. That game was played on both Windows and MacOS alike by tons of people. One server handled both operating systems with ease. iD did a great job with that one. Then in 1998, Starcraft was released for both Mac and PC, so that continued. In 1999, Quake 3: Arena was released for Mac/PC simultaneously. Unreal Tournament also landed. So yes, at that time there were a lot of Mac gamers.

Poor Steve Jobs. Instead of Master Chief, he got Justin Long.

Ah yes, but before Bill Gates got Master Chief, Steve Jobs got this guy:

Spoiler: image

and if you know his story (a cookie for his name) then you know he could most likely curb stomp Master Chief. He had to put up with quite a lot in his games.

You seem to forget that Bungie made and owns Marathon. Also if I recall correctly Marathon was also ported to the PC. Steve Jobs had nothing

 

[TheMann]

You seem to forget that Bungie made and owns Marathon. Also if I recall correctly Marathon was also ported to the PC. Steve Jobs had nothing

I'm well aware of that Bungie owns Marathon and I'm glad they do. I wouldn't want Apple to own it. But you're wrong about Marathon. Only Marathon 2: Durandal was ported to the PC, not the original nor the final installment, Marathon: Infinity. Marathon came out in 1994 and Marathon 2 in 1995. It was ported to the PC in 1996. So, for about 1 year and nine months the Marathon Saga was exclusive to Macs. When all games became freeware in 2002, (I love you Bungie for doing that.) Marathon users converted the original to the Marathon 2 engine allowing it to be played on all operating systems, including Linux using a conversion patch called Aleph One. This was completed in 2005. But as it originally existed there was no PC port. Similarly, Halo: CE was ported to the PC and then the Mac a few months later, but PC users received Halo 2 while Mac users did not.

Anyway, about Jobs and Gates. Steve Jobs is indeed being a monumental asshole these days. However, you have to consider that in the '90s Gates was just as bad. He had some of the most unethical business practices imaginable to the point where the federal government investigated Microsoft in an anti-trust suit. That's been really fucking rare since 1950. He got tons of hate back then, even from PC users. So Jobs might be raging now from all the pent up frustration he suffered back then. What I really suspect though, is that both of them were assholes from the start. This is evident by the fact that both Gates' and Job's co-founders, Paul Allen and Steve Wozniak respectively, left their companies due to the douchebaggery that was going on.

On a side note I really do like Paul Allen. He gives his money to some of the coolest projects imaginable. He built the Seattle Music Project, a rock museum which is really cool, and helped fund the first privatized manned spacecraft, which is really, really cool.

It took me TWLEVE YEARS to make PCs bend to my will, so I'm not in a hurry to go and force a new OS to obey me. Especially not if I can't pull it apart in rage and put it back together (Mom has an iMac).

This. Just this. Thank you for saying that. I'm the same way but with a Mac. I've been using them my whole life starting in 1985. If my Mac breaks down I can usually ***** slap it back into operating within a couple of hours and tell it to go make me a sandwich. I've upgraded the hardware myself three times, and the software several times over. I've hardly ever had to take it to a shop. You're probably just as good with Windows. As you said, why should I suffer for a decade to force a new OS down my throat when I'm happy with the one I have? You made a very fair analysis.

EDIT: You actually can pull apart an iMac, even though many iMac users may not know it. There are three small captive screws on the bottom that when loosened, enable you to flip open the back and access the hardware.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

imagine if halo had came out on the mac, our gaming pcs today might be macs!

 

[Atmos Duality]

Halo marked the beginning of the rise of consoles, and the slow, delayed death of primary-PC gaming. We had another 3-4 years of strong PC-centric titles until the great multi-platform blob appeared and dragged everyone into its gaping mound.
Steve Jobs had every right to be pissed that day; Halo was a milestone in the industry (love or it hate it).

Though it obviously wasn't just Halo; there are a multitude of other factors that forced the market into the state it is today (mostly copy-games, shitty port jobs, and half-baked sequels. But at least they're oh-so SHINY!).

 

[crom jr]

when halo came out for the xbox it wasnt some ground breaking game... unreal tournament, quake 2, and so and and so on already were out by that time...

so I highly doubt that steve jobs could see into the future that this company who previously made a mediocre game called marathon was going to rake in the dough with some average third person shooter called halo...

halo was made popular by xbox live, and the lack of good games on the xbox

 

[i7omahawki]

I have my reasons for preferring Macs in my personal situation. But I really shouldn't need reasons for having a personal opinion if I'm not hurting anyone because of it. I'd just appreciate getting a little bit of tolerance for my personal opinion, rather than be generalized and insulted for it.

Is that really too much to ask of the Escapist?

Didn't you respond to someone else calling out Mac users generally?

They are aimed, or at least consumed, by hipsters who drink at coffee shops while working on a 'novel'. The Mac-lovers are the worst thing about Macs, the second thing being the prices.

Enjoy your Mac, I'm sure nobody actually cared to begin with, but their fanbase is a horde of pretentious pseudo-creatives.