Stolen Pixels #230: The History of Civilization, Part 1

Kapol

Watch the spinning tails...
May 2, 2010
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I iz learning.

But this seems fairly fun, but I've never been able to get into the PC civ games. I love civ rev (for the DS, the 360 version advisers drive me mad), but I always get distracted when I try to play Civ4, and I'd rather play that for a bit before even thinking of getting Civ5.
 

Calatar

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May 13, 2009
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I don't really know how you would go about balancing a game with this degree of freedom. Seems like a nightmare.

I played only one game, on Chieftain difficulty (easy), as the Persians, who get a 50% increase in Golden Age length, and +10% combat strength and +1 unit speed during a Golden Age. I built the wonder which increases Golden Age length by 50%, had a few cities churn out great people, and then I had a Golden Age which last until the end of the game. So named because you get filthy rich during it if you've got a lot of cities.

I used the gold to buy science buildings, so I ended up with Giant Death Robots in the 1800s.

How long has everyone's game time been? My first and only game took me nearly 10 hours. Probably because I was micromanaging 20 cities a turn, but still, it seems excessive.
 

Moriarty

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Apr 29, 2009
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DTWolfwood said:
man it sounds like fun as hell reading this XD I never got into the Civ series cause i got scared by it in one of the early iterations. It all seem too complicated >.< But i hear this one is actually a good starting point for beginners?

as for the comic Hah! XD
well this is actually my first game of the civ series, and you learn stuff pretty fast.
I'm generally rubbish at strategy games, but I already played 25h of civ 5 according to steam =)
 

Tyshalle

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Apr 25, 2009
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So, with 51 hrs of Civ 5 under my belt as well as victories so far up to Emperor level, I have some conclusions:

It's undoubtedly a different game than Civs past. Better? In some ways, yes, in other ways not so. I still think for me Civ 4 was more fun, but Civ 5 is a damn fine game.

The AI is ridiculously bad, though. It tends to spam its unique units, regardless of whether they're the best for that job, and then deploys them poorly. In my Emperor level game yesterday, I rolled in with a half-dozen musketmen and some lancers and ran through about 20-odd longbowmen that the England AI had spawned. Stupid. On the other hand, tactical placement is now far more important, so that may be why I can escalate faster to a higher difficulty than in Civs past.

There is a definite imbalance in the special abilities. Some are incredibly strong: Egypt, Greece, Babylon, Japan and Persia come to mind. Some are situationally useful, such as Germany. Others just flat-out suck: America, Ottomans and England are probably the three worst.
 

oliveira8

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Feb 2, 2009
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Tiamat666 said:
Yes, Civilization 2 was great, but the AI really only started to get interesting from Civ3 upward.
It did? I thought it kept being bad, hitting bottom rock in Civ 4. Civ 5 AI seems to be better than Civ 4 though...but that's not saying a lot. It's still pretty average.
 

Shihoudani

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Oct 3, 2009
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Another great strip for Stolen Pixels! It's true that there is no greater addiction then Civ. Although the combat in this game is by far superior to past Civ games, the AI leaves me feeling a little wanting...
 

thethingthatlurks

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Feb 16, 2010
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I actually preferred Civ4's version of factions, where you had the option of picking (for some nations anyway) between two different leaders with different effects. My current game is germany against 7 others on a standard map. There are some problems, particularly with the AI. One of my coastal cities destroyed dozens of barbarian boats, which they happily left within range. The other nations aren't faring much better, but that's half of the fun. I kinda miss religion though, it was a fun little feature that made diplomacy a bit more dynamic.
 

ranger19

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Nov 19, 2008
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I've never really played a Civ game, but this one looks like a ton of fun. Too bad it won't run on my mac. :(
 

Supp

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Nov 17, 2009
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Wonders really don't matter as much in Civ 5 as they did in the other games, unless you're going for a small empire culture bid.

As for the x3 barb gold... everyone said huyana capac's unique unit in civ 4 sucked. After all, it was just a warrior with +100% to archers. Who would want a UU for a unit that was never used except for spawn busting and scouting? That is until they figured out you could bumrush the diety ai since they massed archers.

So maybe someone will be able to use that massive early game bonus gold for some cheesy strat.

Or maybe it sucks.
 

Weaver

Overcaffeinated
Apr 28, 2008
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Wow if someone has every wonder by 2,400 BC they've got to be cheating lol.
 

Midnight Crossroads

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Jul 17, 2010
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Dammit, I hate Egypt. They've always seemed to have been given some ridiculous combinations of bonuses that make them attractive, but I just hate playing them.
 

Karlaxx

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Oct 26, 2009
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I totally agree; even though I've only played Civ 4, 5 just seems better. It's the combat; it feels like a contest of skill, as opposed to Civ 4's test of whether or not you have epic cities. The tile purchasing is fun, too. Taking your money and translating it into more territory.
 

lomylithruldor

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Aug 10, 2009
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Supp said:
Wonders really don't matter as much in Civ 5 as they did in the other games, unless you're going for a small empire culture bid.

As for the x3 barb gold... everyone said huyana capac's unique unit in civ 4 sucked. After all, it was just a warrior with +100% to archers. Who would want a UU for a unit that was never used except for spawn busting and scouting? That is until they figured out you could bumrush the diety ai since they massed archers.

So maybe someone will be able to use that massive early game bonus gold for some cheesy strat.

Or maybe it sucks.
If you can isolate a part of the map so that barbarians spawn there, you can easily farm them. I had 3 spots on the map plus a couple of islands where barbarians regularly spawned. I destroyed an encampment every 1-2 turns for half of the game and got 37 each times (the amount seems to depends on the size of the map and the difficulty). With that cash, I could fund one extra city-state. I was playing as Monty, so if I had 3 times the cash from barbarians, I could be allied with 2 more city-states. That means +40 culture per turn or 2 military units every 17 turns or a lot more food for all your cities. Of course, I had the honor SP to know where the barbarians spawn and patronage SP to help against influence decay.
 

ilion

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Aug 20, 2009
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Too bad they dont put the Portuguese in the initial 18 civs, probably in a expansion. And we all know why the Egyptians are overpowered, they are aliens who already knew all forms of government and are controlling humanity since its dawn. lol.
 

Tom Phoenix

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Mar 28, 2009
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This has me seriously worried, since I am considering purchasing the game. Any news of a patch coming?
 

H0ncho

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Feb 4, 2008
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This article filled me with nerd rage, but then, you recently defended that so be prepared to have it unleashed...


Civ 5 might have some evolutionary leaps forward. But for every leap forward, they have taken three back, and the remaining is a dumbed down RTS-clone.

See, strategy games, and 4x's in particular, are dependent upon choices: Having a large number of different paths and choosing which/combining different elements is what makes a good 4x experience, and having many different strategies is what defines a good 4x. In civ 5, sadly, everything but the war aspect has been dumbed down.

OK, so let me count the ways:
First, all the diplomatic modifiers have been removed... People try to say that they are simply not shown, but I don't believe that; the civ 5 AI is a completely irrational psychopath that will declare war then five turns later give you all it's cities for peace.

Now, some will point to the introduction of city states as a diplomatic innovation, but what you fail to take into consideration is that all interaction with these is dependent upon a completely two dimensional slider where you gain affection by doing quests or giving money, and lose it over time. That's it.

Second, and most importantly, the economy has taken a massive dumbing down. All the improvements are only +1, with farms upgrading to +2 close to water and trading posts being +2 gold. And that's it. Compare this to civ 4, where tile yields got up around 5-6 for important tiles, there were many more improvements to choose among, and if that was not enough their yields differed widely with your level of tech, government etcetera. One or two good tiles could mean the difference between a great and mediocre city. Contrast this to civ 5 where everything is bland and samey, the only thing to really avoid is desert.

Not only that but they removed sliders and made science population-specific. In previous iterations, balancing money with science was a hard choice and one to build your strategy around. Now, gone. This is made worse by the fact that science is based on population, of all things, which means that no matter how hard you try you can't fuck up science. In civ 4 you had to trade science/money if you wanted expansion, via the city upkeep system. Not so in civ 5, where global happiness doesn't take distance into account - in other word, yet another strategic aspect taken out.

Third, the buildings are also massively dumbed down. this post [http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=384680] explains it better than I, but essentially, you'll only ever want to build a very few amount of buildings. While that is alright seen in isolation, this means that the only thing to actually do... Is waging war.

Really, civ 5 is a warmongers dream. War weariness is out; science is indepenent on gold, meaning that going to war no longer hurts your science; very few buildings to build, and no diplomatic interaction with civilizations due to them being psychopathic...

Now, hexagons made wars better, but AI still cannot deal with ranged units any good. And certain civs like japan are ridiculously overpowered. In spite of units being able to walk on water, AI's cannot do naval invasions any good.

So really, the only realistic path is to build more units, then war. Hence the comparison with RTS's, cuz' this one doesn't have the builder aspect of 4x's at all.



Oh, and before I forgot: The difficulty levels on this game are laughably low. I am challenged by monarch in civ 4, but playing civ 5 on a similar level feels like playing on chieftain!!






PS The bonus to Egyptians is pretty mediocre; for comparison, the "industrial" trait in civ 4 gave 50% bonus, and in that game people had two traits... The reason why the Egyptians get all the wonders is that they have a higher priority on them; it is not really hard to get wonders before them. This statement makes me wonder whether you have actually played a civ before.
 

civver

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May 15, 2009
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"Smaller empires are more viable now"
Agreed, definitely agreed. I'm so happy that wars of conquest are not practically mandatory anymore for your dominion to thrive. There are actually more ways to play.

Also concur on the "one-tile, one-unit" concept. Moving units is no longer just an exercise in repetition.
 

USSR

Probably your average communist.
Oct 4, 2008
2,367
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Yes, my game started to get a tad confusing..

First off, I don't remember The Great Wall of Sparta <.<

Secondly..

The Statue of Liberty has been built in Moscow!
Must I say more?