Stolen Pixels #241: The Gaming Afterlife

[Doctor VonSexMachine]

Don't mind me, just adding to the 5 pages of "Best.Comic.Ever." comments.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

You forgot that in hell, they are Marketed by Peter Molyneux

LMAO. With Kotick as their PR relations.

EDIT: And if you go to Hell, you unlock a new Hat in Team Fortress 2.

 

[Irridium]

Spoiler

the rachni queen has been shown capable of manipulating other species, who knows what it could've done with all of those dying asari commandos, also, if you left it in the cage, then contacted the council, they would have killed it, no questions asked.

Actually, I chose that background and was able to talk with the illusive man about it, he claimed to know nothing of the splinter group, and would have ordered miranda to kill them all if your buddy didn't do it in the first place, the cutscene is a little easy to miss, just antagonize the illusive man and you'll be talking about it.

Don't forget, the council have no idea how advanced the geth are, if you read the codex on ships you'll see they replicated sovreigns guns in less than two years, so it would not be hard to believe the geth couldn't create them, and the reaper artifacts you ffind they believe to be prothean, like the mass relays.

lastly, a lot of choices are black and white, or shades of gray phrased differently. For example, destroying the collector station, if you had an option to give it to the alliance, many of the highest ranking alliance members are pro cerberus, and cerburus could claim it was their discovery, if you tried giving it to the council, cerberus would claim it was a human find, and also theirs, not to mention, cerberus engineers are the only ones who know how to get to the station in the first place.

EDIT: A little hlpful advice, hit preview and proof read things so that you don't screw up spoilers and quotes, I've fixed those here for you.

Spoiler

I'm not so sure that the council would have chosen to kill the Rachni. They did it before, and they almost killed all the Krogan. Mordin states what happened to the Rachni was a huge mistake, and in other places it was mentioned that the Rachni never surrendered, even right before they were (thought to be) annihilated. I doubt they would just kill it without at least seriously debating the issue first.

How were you able to ask the Illusive Man about Akuze? I tried every option and never got anything from him. The only Cerberus stuff he mentioned were the groups I killed(the ones making Rachni Soldiers).

And they don't know much about the Geth, which is why they should probably have shown more emotion other then "mild indifference" when I bring a fully functioning, free-willed Geth onto the Citadel.

And choices are sometimes shaded grey, however the game slaps good/evil stickers on them. An example I used is the Genophage. Both sides of the argument have good reasons for believing what they believe, both are reasonable, and neither are really "evil" or "bad". Yet if you agree with Mordin that the Genophage was needed(which is a perfectly reasonable choice) the game claims its "renegade". Its just stupid.

And in dealing with the Collector Base, its not the choice of giving it to Cerberus or destroying it that I have a problem with, its just Shepard's line when if I choose to destroy it. That line being "I won't let fear compromise who I am". Out of all the perfectly reasonable, well thought out things he could say he picks the lamest, most cliche one.

And yes, preview is your friend.

 

[Warachia]

Spoiler

the rachni queen has been shown capable of manipulating other species, who knows what it could've done with all of those dying asari commandos, also, if you left it in the cage, then contacted the council, they would have killed it, no questions asked.

Actually, I chose that background and was able to talk with the illusive man about it, he claimed to know nothing of the splinter group, and would have ordered miranda to kill them all if your buddy didn't do it in the first place, the cutscene is a little easy to miss, just antagonize the illusive man and you'll be talking about it.

Don't forget, the council have no idea how advanced the geth are, if you read the codex on ships you'll see they replicated sovreigns guns in less than two years, so it would not be hard to believe the geth couldn't create them, and the reaper artifacts you ffind they believe to be prothean, like the mass relays.

lastly, a lot of choices are black and white, or shades of gray phrased differently. For example, destroying the collector station, if you had an option to give it to the alliance, many of the highest ranking alliance members are pro cerberus, and cerburus could claim it was their discovery, if you tried giving it to the council, cerberus would claim it was a human find, and also theirs, not to mention, cerberus engineers are the only ones who know how to get to the station in the first place.

EDIT: A little hlpful advice, hit preview and proof read things so that you don't screw up spoilers and quotes, I've fixed those here for you.

Spoiler

I'm not so sure that the council would have chosen to kill the Rachni. They did it before, and they almost killed all the Krogan. Mordin states what happened to the Rachni was a huge mistake, and in other places it was mentioned that the Rachni never surrendered, even right before they were (thought to be) annihilated. I doubt they would just kill it without at least seriously debating the issue first.

How were you able to ask the Illusive Man about Akuze? I tried every option and never got anything from him. The only Cerberus stuff he mentioned were the groups I killed(the ones making Rachni Soldiers).

And they don't know much about the Geth, which is why they should probably have shown more emotion other then "mild indifference" when I bring a fully functioning, free-willed Geth onto the Citadel.

And choices are sometimes shaded grey, however the game slaps good/evil stickers on them. An example I used is the Genophage. Both sides of the argument have good reasons for believing what they believe, both are reasonable, and neither are really "evil" or "bad". Yet if you agree with Mordin that the Genophage was needed(which is a perfectly reasonable choice) the game claims its "renegade". Its just stupid.

And in dealing with the Collector Base, its not the choice of giving it to Cerberus or destroying it that I have a problem with, its just Shepard's line when if I choose to destroy it. That line being "I won't let fear compromise who I am". Out of all the perfectly reasonable, well thought out things he could say he picks the lamest, most cliche one.

And yes, preview is your friend.

Spoiler

I was able to talk with him about akuze by choosing the options to antagonaize him, it's been a while since I played the game, but I remember you get it in within earlier cutscenes with him, You're right, they should have showed terror, but for all they know, this could be a geth you reprogrammed, as everything about sovreign has already been termed "geth technology" so anything legion could say would be dismissed as they already believe shepard to be obsessed with the reaper theory, with the rachni, now we're back to personal opinion, they probably would have a debate, ending with the rachni extermination, as they were once the galaxy's greatest threat, not to mention some of the asari (and krogan) are old enough to remember the rachni war, and without large numbers of krogan it would be impossible to stop them.
and lastly it is VERY easy to find the paragon renegade choices, you believe that it was right to nearly destroy a species with a virus, therefore you think more about yourself in the game than the species that was nearly destroyed, don't worry about it so much, again, only on insanity was I not able to get them both maxed out, if you find yourself getting more renegade points because if what you say, you're probably more suited to renegade in the first place.

 

[Irridium]

Spoiler

the rachni queen has been shown capable of manipulating other species, who knows what it could've done with all of those dying asari commandos, also, if you left it in the cage, then contacted the council, they would have killed it, no questions asked.

Actually, I chose that background and was able to talk with the illusive man about it, he claimed to know nothing of the splinter group, and would have ordered miranda to kill them all if your buddy didn't do it in the first place, the cutscene is a little easy to miss, just antagonize the illusive man and you'll be talking about it.

Don't forget, the council have no idea how advanced the geth are, if you read the codex on ships you'll see they replicated sovreigns guns in less than two years, so it would not be hard to believe the geth couldn't create them, and the reaper artifacts you ffind they believe to be prothean, like the mass relays.

lastly, a lot of choices are black and white, or shades of gray phrased differently. For example, destroying the collector station, if you had an option to give it to the alliance, many of the highest ranking alliance members are pro cerberus, and cerburus could claim it was their discovery, if you tried giving it to the council, cerberus would claim it was a human find, and also theirs, not to mention, cerberus engineers are the only ones who know how to get to the station in the first place.

EDIT: A little hlpful advice, hit preview and proof read things so that you don't screw up spoilers and quotes, I've fixed those here for you.

Spoiler

I'm not so sure that the council would have chosen to kill the Rachni. They did it before, and they almost killed all the Krogan. Mordin states what happened to the Rachni was a huge mistake, and in other places it was mentioned that the Rachni never surrendered, even right before they were (thought to be) annihilated. I doubt they would just kill it without at least seriously debating the issue first.

How were you able to ask the Illusive Man about Akuze? I tried every option and never got anything from him. The only Cerberus stuff he mentioned were the groups I killed(the ones making Rachni Soldiers).

And they don't know much about the Geth, which is why they should probably have shown more emotion other then "mild indifference" when I bring a fully functioning, free-willed Geth onto the Citadel.

And choices are sometimes shaded grey, however the game slaps good/evil stickers on them. An example I used is the Genophage. Both sides of the argument have good reasons for believing what they believe, both are reasonable, and neither are really "evil" or "bad". Yet if you agree with Mordin that the Genophage was needed(which is a perfectly reasonable choice) the game claims its "renegade". Its just stupid.

And in dealing with the Collector Base, its not the choice of giving it to Cerberus or destroying it that I have a problem with, its just Shepard's line when if I choose to destroy it. That line being "I won't let fear compromise who I am". Out of all the perfectly reasonable, well thought out things he could say he picks the lamest, most cliche one.

And yes, preview is your friend.

Spoiler

I was able to talk with him about akuze by choosing the options to antagonaize him, it's been a while since I played the game, but I remember you get it in within earlier cutscenes with him, You're right, they should have showed terror, but for all they know, this could be a geth you reprogrammed, as everything about sovreign has already been termed "geth technology" so anything legion could say would be dismissed as they already believe shepard to be obsessed with the reaper theory, with the rachni, now we're back to personal opinion, they probably would have a debate, ending with the rachni extermination, as they were once the galaxy's greatest threat, not to mention some of the asari (and krogan) are old enough to remember the rachni war, and without large numbers of krogan it would be impossible to stop them.
and lastly it is VERY easy to find the paragon renegade choices, you believe that it was right to nearly destroy a species with a virus, therefore you think more about yourself in the game than the species that was nearly destroyed, don't worry about it so much, again, only on insanity was I not able to get them both maxed out, if you find yourself getting more renegade points because if what you say, you're probably more suited to renegade in the first place.

Spoiler

Huh, I'll have to check that on my next playthrough.

And even if they deemed Sovereign "Geth Technology", they have a chance to finally learn about the Geth, a chance to try and come up with something benificial to both parties. They have more to gain by just talking to Legion then ignoring him. The fact that they just brush him aside is foolhardy. Same with Captain Anderson.

And with the Rachni, well since it could go either way, and we really don't know what they would choose, I'd say we can't really debate it much more. They could choose to end them, or they may feel guilt for doing it the first time, and perhaps give them one planet then monitor them. Anything could happen.

And my problem isn't with the Paragon/Renegade system per-say, its with how they're applied to morally grey situations. The genophage didn't destroy the species, it merely leveled out the Krogan's numbers so they wouldn't become the "next Rachni" and overrun the galaxy. I don't mind if I max one or the other out, or even both. I'd just prefer that the "good/evil" labels not be applied to arguments which are grey areas. Either nearly sterilize a species, preventing them from overrunning the galaxy and causing another very large and costly war, or don't, and possibly deal with the consequences. Both sides have their pro's and cons, and neither is really wrong. Its one of those "do a great evil to do a great good" type situations. Either choice is justified, and not really "wrong".

 

[Warachia]

Spoiler

I was able to talk with him about akuze by choosing the options to antagonaize him, it's been a while since I played the game, but I remember you get it in within earlier cutscenes with him, You're right, they should have showed terror, but for all they know, this could be a geth you reprogrammed, as everything about sovreign has already been termed "geth technology" so anything legion could say would be dismissed as they already believe shepard to be obsessed with the reaper theory, with the rachni, now we're back to personal opinion, they probably would have a debate, ending with the rachni extermination, as they were once the galaxy's greatest threat, not to mention some of the asari (and krogan) are old enough to remember the rachni war, and without large numbers of krogan it would be impossible to stop them.
and lastly it is VERY easy to find the paragon renegade choices, you believe that it was right to nearly destroy a species with a virus, therefore you think more about yourself in the game than the species that was nearly destroyed, don't worry about it so much, again, only on insanity was I not able to get them both maxed out, if you find yourself getting more renegade points because if what you say, you're probably more suited to renegade in the first place.

Spoiler

Huh, I'll have to check that on my next playthrough.

And even if they deemed Sovereign "Geth Technology", they have a chance to finally learn about the Geth, a chance to try and come up with something benificial to both parties. They have more to gain by just talking to Legion then ignoring him. The fact that they just brush him aside is foolhardy. Same with Captain Anderson.

And with the Rachni, well since it could go either way, and we really don't know what they would choose, I'd say we can't really debate it much more. They could choose to end them, or they may feel guilt for doing it the first time, and perhaps give them one planet then monitor them. Anything could happen.

And my problem isn't with the Paragon/Renegade system per-say, its with how they're applied to morally grey situations. The genophage didn't destroy the species, it merely leveled out the Krogan's numbers so they wouldn't become the "next Rachni" and overrun the galaxy. I don't mind if I max one or the other out, or even both. I'd just prefer that the "good/evil" labels not be applied to arguments which are grey areas. Either nearly sterilize a species, preventing them from overrunning the galaxy and causing another very large and costly war, or don't, and possibly deal with the consequences. Both sides have their pro's and cons, and neither is really wrong. Its one of those "do a great evil to do a great good" type situations. Either choice is justified, and not really "wrong".

Spoiler

they did learn more about the geth, they learned about their technology and what they are capable of, I guess they didn't see the need to do an in depth analysis of geth culture, if you remember, or listen to news broadcasts there was a LOT going on when you got legion on your team, you could claim they didn't have any time to spare, also, the council didn't want to see shepard again even if you did save them, they did it reluctantly.

I don't like aplying moral dilemmas to grey areas either, but I see it as a limitation, maybe one we'll overcome, if they didn't apply it then most of the points would come from very few choices throughout the game making it extremely unbalanced, and the system itself isn't centered around "good choice, bad choice" but is more "serves self, serves others".

 

[Irridium]

Spoiler

I was able to talk with him about akuze by choosing the options to antagonaize him, it's been a while since I played the game, but I remember you get it in within earlier cutscenes with him, You're right, they should have showed terror, but for all they know, this could be a geth you reprogrammed, as everything about sovreign has already been termed "geth technology" so anything legion could say would be dismissed as they already believe shepard to be obsessed with the reaper theory, with the rachni, now we're back to personal opinion, they probably would have a debate, ending with the rachni extermination, as they were once the galaxy's greatest threat, not to mention some of the asari (and krogan) are old enough to remember the rachni war, and without large numbers of krogan it would be impossible to stop them.
and lastly it is VERY easy to find the paragon renegade choices, you believe that it was right to nearly destroy a species with a virus, therefore you think more about yourself in the game than the species that was nearly destroyed, don't worry about it so much, again, only on insanity was I not able to get them both maxed out, if you find yourself getting more renegade points because if what you say, you're probably more suited to renegade in the first place.

Spoiler

Huh, I'll have to check that on my next playthrough.

And even if they deemed Sovereign "Geth Technology", they have a chance to finally learn about the Geth, a chance to try and come up with something benificial to both parties. They have more to gain by just talking to Legion then ignoring him. The fact that they just brush him aside is foolhardy. Same with Captain Anderson.

And with the Rachni, well since it could go either way, and we really don't know what they would choose, I'd say we can't really debate it much more. They could choose to end them, or they may feel guilt for doing it the first time, and perhaps give them one planet then monitor them. Anything could happen.

And my problem isn't with the Paragon/Renegade system per-say, its with how they're applied to morally grey situations. The genophage didn't destroy the species, it merely leveled out the Krogan's numbers so they wouldn't become the "next Rachni" and overrun the galaxy. I don't mind if I max one or the other out, or even both. I'd just prefer that the "good/evil" labels not be applied to arguments which are grey areas. Either nearly sterilize a species, preventing them from overrunning the galaxy and causing another very large and costly war, or don't, and possibly deal with the consequences. Both sides have their pro's and cons, and neither is really wrong. Its one of those "do a great evil to do a great good" type situations. Either choice is justified, and not really "wrong".

Spoiler

they did learn more about the geth, they learned about their technology and what they are capable of, I guess they didn't see the need to do an in depth analysis of geth culture, if you remember, or listen to news broadcasts there was a LOT going on when you got legion on your team, you could claim they didn't have any time to spare, also, the council didn't want to see shepard again even if you did save them, they did it reluctantly.

I don't like aplying moral dilemmas to grey areas either, but I see it as a limitation, maybe one we'll overcome, if they didn't apply it then most of the points would come from very few choices throughout the game making it extremely unbalanced, and the system itself isn't centered around "good choice, bad choice" but is more "serves self, serves others".

Spoiler

Yes, but they still don't know that the Geth are split(at least until you decide whether to destroy/re-program the other faction). They could have learned that the Geth are actually open to peace, and to a relationship if it strengthens both parties. It would also open up a lot of doors for the whole AI controversy in the ME world.

And yeah, I see it as kind of a limitation as well. What I think they should have done is include factions, and your standings in them. This way its a lot less about good/evil and more about how others see you. For example in ME2 you have the Alliance, The Council, and Cerberus. Those could be the main factions, and what you did affected how they see you. You could also have smaller factions, like the various mercenary groups, Aria on Omega, The Krogan on Tuchanka, Liara on Illium, and C-Sec on the Citadel. You actions affect how they all see you, and they'll either like or hate you depending on your choices. You also have your companions, and ship-crew to worry about. Of course seeing as how Bioware is having your decisions carry from game to game it would be a massive pain to code, but the result would be a lot better then the Paragon/Renagade system. The Witcher and New Vegas do this, and it works really well.

 

[Lan_EX]

Oh Shamus, you did it again.

No matter how many times I read this. I keep laughing.

 

[Warachia]

Spoiler

I was able to talk with him about akuze by choosing the options to antagonaize him, it's been a while since I played the game, but I remember you get it in within earlier cutscenes with him, You're right, they should have showed terror, but for all they know, this could be a geth you reprogrammed, as everything about sovreign has already been termed "geth technology" so anything legion could say would be dismissed as they already believe shepard to be obsessed with the reaper theory, with the rachni, now we're back to personal opinion, they probably would have a debate, ending with the rachni extermination, as they were once the galaxy's greatest threat, not to mention some of the asari (and krogan) are old enough to remember the rachni war, and without large numbers of krogan it would be impossible to stop them.
and lastly it is VERY easy to find the paragon renegade choices, you believe that it was right to nearly destroy a species with a virus, therefore you think more about yourself in the game than the species that was nearly destroyed, don't worry about it so much, again, only on insanity was I not able to get them both maxed out, if you find yourself getting more renegade points because if what you say, you're probably more suited to renegade in the first place.

Spoiler

Huh, I'll have to check that on my next playthrough.

And even if they deemed Sovereign "Geth Technology", they have a chance to finally learn about the Geth, a chance to try and come up with something benificial to both parties. They have more to gain by just talking to Legion then ignoring him. The fact that they just brush him aside is foolhardy. Same with Captain Anderson.

And with the Rachni, well since it could go either way, and we really don't know what they would choose, I'd say we can't really debate it much more. They could choose to end them, or they may feel guilt for doing it the first time, and perhaps give them one planet then monitor them. Anything could happen.

And my problem isn't with the Paragon/Renegade system per-say, its with how they're applied to morally grey situations. The genophage didn't destroy the species, it merely leveled out the Krogan's numbers so they wouldn't become the "next Rachni" and overrun the galaxy. I don't mind if I max one or the other out, or even both. I'd just prefer that the "good/evil" labels not be applied to arguments which are grey areas. Either nearly sterilize a species, preventing them from overrunning the galaxy and causing another very large and costly war, or don't, and possibly deal with the consequences. Both sides have their pro's and cons, and neither is really wrong. Its one of those "do a great evil to do a great good" type situations. Either choice is justified, and not really "wrong".

Spoiler

they did learn more about the geth, they learned about their technology and what they are capable of, I guess they didn't see the need to do an in depth analysis of geth culture, if you remember, or listen to news broadcasts there was a LOT going on when you got legion on your team, you could claim they didn't have any time to spare, also, the council didn't want to see shepard again even if you did save them, they did it reluctantly.

I don't like aplying moral dilemmas to grey areas either, but I see it as a limitation, maybe one we'll overcome, if they didn't apply it then most of the points would come from very few choices throughout the game making it extremely unbalanced, and the system itself isn't centered around "good choice, bad choice" but is more "serves self, serves others".

Spoiler

Yes, but they still don't know that the Geth are split(at least until you decide whether to destroy/re-program the other faction). They could have learned that the Geth are actually open to peace, and to a relationship if it strengthens both parties. It would also open up a lot of doors for the whole AI controversy in the ME world.

And yeah, I see it as kind of a limitation as well. What I think they should have done is include factions, and your standings in them. This way its a lot less about good/evil and more about how others see you. For example in ME2 you have the Alliance, The Council, and Cerberus. Those could be the main factions, and what you did affected how they see you. You could also have smaller factions, like the various mercenary groups, Aria on Omega, The Krogan on Tuchanka, Liara on Illium, and C-Sec on the Citadel. You actions affect how they all see you, and they'll either like or hate you depending on your choices. You also have your companions, and ship-crew to worry about. Of course seeing as how Bioware is having your decisions carry from game to game it would be a massive pain to code, but the result would be a lot better then the Paragon/Renagade system. The Witcher and New Vegas do this, and it works really well.

Spoiler

and now you are going into topics that I will bet you any amount of money they will cover in ME 3, I forgot to mention that you only find out about the geth split near the end of the game mission wise.

Yes it would be harder to code, and if you wanted the same effect, you would need to program how they felt, how various missions would effect them, how they would be affected by how other people see you, and you in the media, not to mention the long term effects your choices have between games, my compromise is: have both, but don't make them exclusive, you can choose a paragon option to get on the characters good side, or you can get on their good side by choosing renegade options, and making them see it through your point of view, you can get options by having them like/dislike you and still have paragon/renegade influence, I've played games that screwed up factions by making them exclusive to the black and white choices (fallout 3 and others did this a lot), which we've already established we don't want, this suggests the closest to a grey area you can get.

 

[Morzas]

The part with Tidus sealed it for me. FFX is a pretty nonsensical game when you think about it like that.

 

[LadyRhian]

I laughed so hard, I think I hurt something. And in Hell, all MMO's are billed as "WoW-Killers"- but their servers are always down. In Heaven, they really are, and the servers are Never down.

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

I dunno, I think "I'm an underwater football player created by ghosts who travels through time to fight my dad, who has become Satan" is a better story than "I am a space marine, aliens are bad"...

But this is still one of the best you've ever done, Shamus

its about execution, funk.

holy hell does that need work...

 

[DoW Lowen]

Heh, nice idea for a comic. I think Square Enix makes great stories, though. >.> <.<

I realize that Square make incredibly complex and intriguing concepts, they just have terrible execution with card board cut out characters, cliche dialogue and saturday morning cartoon morality. Case in point: Final Fantasy XIII.

EDIT: Also Shamus, one of the best stolen pixels to date.

 

[Bane_Star]

I think the Original Joke Was:

Heaven: Western Man, Russian Woman, Chinese Food and British Country House,

Hell: Russian Man, Western Woman, British Food and Chinese Country House.

 

[tzimize]

Cracked up when I saw the RE5 on the hell line. Good comic.

 

[Firepowered]

What? we have Greggs, steak pies, and invented the Fish and Chip shop!

*storms off angrily*

You don't like Meat Pies? Cornish Pasties? Haggis? Scotch Egg? Fish and Chips? Yorkshire pudding? Sunday Roast? Eel Pie? Steak and Kidney Pie? Really bad Curry?

Oh yeah I see what you mean.

And especially the french lovers...

Well, I suppose I could have gone for better restaurants during my travels in England.
Unfortunately I was on school trips, and eating fish and chips only for one week straight leaves a REALLY bad impression of the local food

Oh Gawd school trips. No. Erm the examples were jokes. Our food is bad except the food we stole from other countries (though not scotland they are as bad as us).

I suppose you mean Haggis?

 

[Firepowered]

"The release shedule is set by valve"

Vavle aint THAT bad, it's just the HL series. Since 2004 valve have actually made 5 games , with 2 new IP snot includung things like DoD;Source and CSS. But the point is taken, they DO run on Valve time.

Yeah, but the L4D team is actually another gang of developers whom Valve hired, if I'm not mistaken (Not completely sure though).

 

[Vetinarii]

What? we have Greggs, steak pies, and invented the Fish and Chip shop!

*storms off angrily*

You don't like Meat Pies? Cornish Pasties? Haggis? Scotch Egg? Fish and Chips? Yorkshire pudding? Sunday Roast? Eel Pie? Steak and Kidney Pie? Really bad Curry?

Oh yeah I see what you mean.

And especially the french lovers...

Well, I suppose I could have gone for better restaurants during my travels in England.
Unfortunately I was on school trips, and eating fish and chips only for one week straight leaves a REALLY bad impression of the local food

Oh Gawd school trips. No. Erm the examples were jokes. Our food is bad except the food we stole from other countries (though not scotland they are as bad as us).

I suppose you mean Haggis?

And deep fried Mars Bars =P