To all the people that keep saying that the empire wanted to execute you for no reason think about the circumstances of your capture. You were captured by an ambush set for Ulfric so of course they'll assume you're with him and can't take any chances by simply letting you go otherwise they would have to let every idiot that's allied with the stormcloaks but not famous enough to be on the wanted list go when captured.
I see your point, but that doesn't change the fact that they WERE wrong, and about to kill an innocent citizen. Sure, they don't have to kiss your boo-boos and let you walk away, but the whole thing was a kangaroo court. There are always options other than "cut his/her fucking head off". You were tied up surrounded by imperial guards, escape was not an option. Just ask the arrow ridden dead fellow over yander.
When someone is murdered, do the police gun down the first person at the scene?
And by doing so you allow war to continue, crippling Skyrim to the point where neither side of the war effort has even the slightest chance of being able to stand up the the Ald'meri Dominion.
The point I'm trying to make is that the Empire are certainly not perfect, but they are Skyrim's only hope, the lesser of the evils.
But the Empire has already given up the fight. Siding with the Empire means working for the Thalmar. If the Empire wins against the Stormcloaks then they will continue to be a puppet of the Thalmar until they are weakened enough that the Thalmar will step in and completely take over no more governing from the shadows.
At least the Stormcloaks will try to fight. Hell if the Stormcloaks get really lucky, throw off the Empire and hold off the Thalmar maybe they'll inspire the remnants of the empire, show them that it is possible to fight rather than accept their corrupt Emperor's surrender.
And Skyrim isn't even the original Nord homeland they took it from the original inhabitants. They are originally from another continent north of Tamriel.
You can't get north of Tamriel, that's like going north of Earth. But I think I get what you mean.
OT: I joined the Stormcloaks for two reasons: one, I was roleplaying a Nord veteran. Two, as much as there is to dislike the Stormcloaks, the Imperials gave the elves the key to the Empire and outlawed worship of Talos. Real-world parallel would be the Roman outlawing and persecution of Christians, especially since Talos is an ascended mortal.
The Stormcloaks being at war and having animosity towards the Thalmor high elves, of course they would have a problem with elves in general. As regrettable is it is, why wouldn't they when war tends to foster a "with me or against me" mentality? Most Stormcloaks that have dialogue will tell you that they hold no animosity towards other races, but have an extreme distrust for anyone who won't take up arms for Skyrim. I have noticed though that whichever side you pick portrays the absolute worst about the enemy and the best of itself, like any real-life faction, so the Empire may seem just as noble from within their own ranks. The way I see it from here though, the Imperials are valorous but wrong, and the Stormcloaks are right but occasionally stereotypically barbaric. Also, anyone who sends me to the headsman's block when there aren't even charges against me needs to pay.
I get exactly what the OP is going on about. I can't work out who to side with! Ulfric is a dick and the Stormcloaks are dicks too and their methods are questionable at best, but I agree that the Thalmor need kicking out of Skyrim and that they don't need the empire to run themselves. But the empire is much more civil and diplomatic, and Talos came from Skyrim himself anyway! The empire was founded by a Nord! And Arngeir of the Greybeards is a Blade, so maybe the main quest wants me to go with the empire... very hard to choose!
It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.
1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?
2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?
3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power. Main story spoilers coming up.
During the peace treaty with the Imperials, he acted like a child. he kicked up a fuss because he didn't want to be in the same room as a Thalmore, and then proceeded to demand city after city to be surrendered to the Stormcloaks, whilst ranting away at the Imperials with his bile about "true sons of Skyrim". Even in the face of the total destruction of Skyrim, he continued to act like a child, and to furhter his own power.
4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.
How the hell do you think the Aldmeri are going to invade Skyrim? I don't know if you've tried, but I suggest you consider how hard it is to leave Skyrim without being able to fly over mountains. Skyrim is incredibly, mind-blowingly easy to defend because every single entrance is a narrow mountain pass and this is a world where it is not only feasible but fairly easy to bathe a small area in magical fire that will kill most normal people on a constant basis.
But the Empire has already given up the fight. Siding with the Empire means working for the Thalmar. If the Empire wins against the Stormcloaks then they will continue to be a puppet of the Thalmar until they are weakened enough that the Thalmar will step in and completely take over no more governing from the shadows.
The Empire is only a puppet of the Dominion for as long as the peace treaty lasts. End the peace treaty, and the war continues as normal. If the Empire can secure Skyrim before they are truly one with the Dominion, then they still have a fighting chance.
Having said that, this argument is the first to make me truly consider going with the Stormcloaks. It has been made twice now, and while I stick by my counter argument, there is truth in what you say, and that is certainly the best reason I've heard for going Stormcloak.
And Skyrim isn't even the original Nord homeland they took it from the original inhabitants. They are originally from another continent north of Tamriel.
I went Empire, I felt as though it would save more lives in the long run. Also, Ulfric seemed like a bit of a knobbo. Additionally, I quite like the idea of having the authority of the Empire behind me as I stamp out rebels. I
They're called "Stormcloaks". They could be wearing bright-pink spandex leotards and dual wield rolled up Far-Right newspapers, and they'd still be more badass than the Empire.
Plus, they're the rebels. Everyone loves them rebels.
How the hell do you think the Aldmeri are going to invade Skyrim? I don't know if you've tried, but I suggest you consider how hard it is to leave Skyrim without being able to fly over mountains. Skyrim is incredibly, mind-blowingly easy to defend because every single entrance is a narrow mountain pass and this is a world where it is not only feasible but fairly easy to bathe a small area in magical fire that will kill most normal people on a constant basis.
This is also a very solid point. However, Skyrims position and easy to defend nature is not really argument in favour of either side. If the Stormcloaks win, they stand a chance of being able to defend Skyrim, if the Imperials win, and they break the peace treaty, the same applies to them as well.
Even if the Imperials lose all of their territory and are totally dominated by the Dominion but for Skyrim alone, I would still rather the Imperials were the ones left to defending what's left of it, as apposed to a group of rebels that are more interested in Nord supremacy than building a fair kingdom, under a King that can barely run two cities and a couple of villages.
What about the rest of Skyrim that doesn't want to doom the entire province to slavery just because they aren't allowed to worship a god anymore? If the Stormcloaks allied with the Empire instead of fighting them, then maybe the Dominion could be fought off and the nords could have their rights back? The Stormcloaks fail the realise that THEY are part of the reason that Talos worship is outlawed, and that THEY are part of the reason why the Empire cannot afford to keep fighting the Dominion, and why they have to give in to the Dominions demands. Without the Stormcloak's the Empire would stand a chance against the Dominion, but because of them, they don't.
And by doing so you allow war to continue, crippling Skyrim to the point where neither side of the war effort has even the slightest chance of being able to stand up the the Ald'meri Dominion.
The point I'm trying to make is that the Empire are certainly not perfect, but they are Skyrim's only hope, the lesser of the evils.
lunncal said:
In my eyes the empire has already lost to the Ald'meri Dominion, I mean they were so close to being completely obliterated they surrendered their god.
Skyrim on the other hand might be strong and isolated enough to hold off against the dominion
This is a very good point, but it relies on the idea that the Stormcloak's stand a chance against the Ald'meri, and if they can't defeat a fraction of this crippled empire, they could not stand up to the might of the Ald'meri Dominion. Siding with the Imperials will probably just hand victory to the Dominion, but there is hope that the Imperials will be able to liberate themselves.
A big advantage to Skyrim is exactly the reason Napoleon couldn't take Russia, and I think the Nazis too. Unfamiliar and hostile territory, where your men are dropping off like flies not from combat but from starvation, injury from terrain, and frostbite. Altmer have a racial weakness to cold. With the Stormcloaks in power, the Nords are also able and ready to fight any invaders. You can't be taken by surprise if you already see it coming. Also, the first thing the Altmer will do is stage a full coup of the Empire anyway and kill the Emperor first thing. Those chess pieces are already set up by Skyrim.
How the hell do you think the Aldmeri are going to invade Skyrim? I don't know if you've tried, but I suggest you consider how hard it is to leave Skyrim without being able to fly over mountains. Skyrim is incredibly, mind-blowingly easy to defend because every single entrance is a narrow mountain pass and this is a world where it is not only feasible but fairly easy to bathe a small area in magical fire that will kill most normal people on a constant basis.
This is also a very solid point. However, Skyrims position and easy to defend nature is not really argument in favour of either side. If the Stormcloaks win, they stand a chance of being able to defend Skyrim, if the Imperials win, and they break the peace treaty, the same applies to them as well.
Even if the Imperials lose all of their territory and are totally dominated by the Dominion but for Skyrim alone, I would still rather the Imperials were the ones left to defending what's left of it, as apposed to a group of rebels that are more interested in Nord supremacy than building a fair kingdom, under a King that can barely run two cities and a couple of villages.
And Skyrim isn't even the original Nord homeland they took it from the original inhabitants. They are originally from another continent north of Tamriel.
"Even your realm is Daedric! Tamriel ae daedroth!"
I somewhat paraphrased, but I think other races also have a different name for earth than the Nords.
I have yet to cast my lot with either group, concerning myself mainly with exploration and dungeon-crawling.
So, is there a way to avoid taking sides at all?
It would be fitting that my Dunmer Sellsword would play both sides of the conflict, but in hearing the general mood of the people of Skyrim I feel as though I would rather ally myself with the empire.
Reasons:
1. Ulfric is a xenophobic, biggoted, power-hungry, d-bag.
2. The Stormcloaks claim that the issue of Talos worship is central to their rebellion, while their enemies are in fact Tiber Septim's empire.
3. I worked my ass off to protect the Empire from the denizens of Oblivion some 200 years ago, why would I want to see that effort wasted on some racist pup.
My Nord Character is siding with Ulfric because he's basically an intolerant werewolf prick. Every other character I've made so far though is siding with the Empire, since they are non-nords and have nothing to gain from joining the Stormcloaks.
They are. Every damn poser is all Stormcloak this and Stormcloak that these days! Well, I was a Stormcloak supporter before they were popular and I certainly won't support this mainstream garbage they've become!
But on a more serious note, they need an underdog so you can (probably in whatever will pass as the canon as well) root for the little man. Who's actually kind of a dickish kid who's kicking the real little man in the teeth because a grown man with an axe came by and demanded things which he kinda had to obey unless he wanted to admire the world in a rather more... cephaloid new form.
Yeah, sure sucks they outlawed your god worship. Yet nobody actually seems to care about the crazy man hollering about Talos on the streets (yeah yeah, Whiterun's neutral and all that, but still), and what the hell were they supposed to do? Deny the Aldmeri and get curbstomped so far into the curb that they're reaching molten magma? I don't think so. And then Ulfric Stormcloak decides that it'd be an awesome move to totally screw everything up by killing their king in a spectacular display of butthurt that'd totally solve everything with the big oppressive empire that doesn't understand or care about their ways. Oh wait.
All in all, the Aldmeri are dicks, but the Stormcloaks are just stupid. Can't blame 'em, they're scared, but anyhow.
And Skyrim isn't even the original Nord homeland they took it from the original inhabitants. They are originally from another continent north of Tamriel.
"Even your realm is Daedric! Tamriel ae daedroth!"
I somewhat paraphrased, but I think other races also have a different name for earth than the Nords.
There are four know continents on Nirn:
Tamriel is the one we play on
Akavir to the east of Tamriel where the Akaviri live
Atmora to the north of Tamriel. The ancestral homeland of the Nords is there.
Yokuda to the west. This is where the Redguards used to live but it sank in the sea.
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