Stormcloaks are too mainstream.

[Genibus]

We are nerding out hardcore on fantasy politics... Fuck Yeah

Awesome eh?


It should be noted that, for those who've played the previous TES games, use those experiences and what you've learned about the lore/races/factions etc, to inform your choices and it will make for a more engaging play-through.

Food for thought.

Cheers.

Actually, I was pretty impressed at how much the political situation had changed since previous TES games. It's pretty clear that the Empire of Skyrim isn't the empire you knew and loved in Oblivion...it's a bit ambiguous whether the failing of the Septim bloodline and the White-Gold Concordat are just setbacks for the Empire, or whether the Empire has become a power-hungry meddler interested only in the safety of Cyrcodil, at the expense of the other provinces...remember, Skyrim was pretty much left defenseless during the attack on the Imperial City.

As for myself, I ended siding with the Empire (my character's a Dunmer, so signing up for the Stormcloaks really doesn't make much sense), but I was a bit disappointed that I wasn't given a chance to rethink my position after a couple of missions. Especially after

Spoiler

the Jagged Crown mission, I thought the Crown ought to be handed over to the rightful Queen, Jarl Elsif. Instead Gen. Tullius was just like "OK, thanks", and it became obvious that he really didn't respect Elsif's position at all, as long as she was a good puppet.

It'd have been nice to be able to advance a little in the questline and explore each side before choosing sides for good, like the main quest in New Vegas.

Yeah, Falk Firebeard finds your lack of faith in General Tullius's relationship with Jarl Elisif disturbing.

 

[Dumbfish1]

Most people go with the Stormcloaks because the Imperial Legion tries to cut your head off at the beginning of the game. They're supposed to be the bad guys. It might be reasonable that they would assume I'm with the Stormcloaks, but even so, in that situation, I'd do everything in my power to see them burn.

I think bad guys is a bit strong. Everyone in the game is motivated for different reasons. If you join the legion they don't seem so bad.

(For the record, I played stormcloaks first, then legion. They're both good)

 

[XMark]

I went with the Stormcloaks because they're the dramatically appropriate option (rebels are almost always the good guys in fiction because they're the underdog fighting against authority and that makes for good drama). If I actually lived in Skyrim I'd side with the empire though.

 

[zHellas]

Has anybody tried going Stormcloack as a high elf yet? I'd love to see somebody post a story about that...

XP

I'm actually doing that in one of my alt's.

Female High Elf Mage.

The Nord is going Empire, my Khajiit is going Stormcloak, and my High Elf will also go Stormcloak.

 

[beefpelican]

I went with the stormcloaks cause I was playing a Nord and am fond of underdogs. Now I'm kind of regretting it, because they're all racist and the Jarl never acknowledges all the stuff I've done for him. He just sits on his throne all lazy style and makes me conquer things in his name. Not even a "thank you for almost single handedly turning the tide of the entire war, Oswulf". Or a "Hey, maybe you should get to be Jarl of the next place we conquer, Oswulf". Super lame!

 

[Nieroshai]

And Skyrim isn't even the original Nord homeland they took it from the original inhabitants. They are originally from another continent north of Tamriel.

You can't get north of Tamriel, that's like going north of Earth. But I think I get what you mean.

Tamriel is actually the continent, the entire world itself is called Mundus, or something.

Anyways, I'll just copy and paste what I wrote on a similar article.

I had a very hard time choosing, this is one of the in-game decisions that I will remember for a long time.

I chose Empire.

The Empire NEEDS Skyrim, and Skyrim NEEDS the Empire. Without the manpower and skill of the Nord troops, the Empire will not win the second war versus the Thalmor. But if Skyrim gains independance, they can't stand alone against the might of the Altmeri Dominion.

If Humanity is to survive the Thalmor's future attacks, (and believe me, they are coming) they will need to be united. The old cliche, divide and conquer.



While the Empire might seem to be a puppet of the Thalmor, you know, the whole concordat and all, make no mistake, shit's going to go down, and soon. The Empire will need every sword at it's disposal. It can't afford to be surrounded by hostile forces on yet another side.

No matter how just the Stormcloaks cause may seem, their demands must be rejected, for the greater good.

Okay. Everyone and their grandmother is quoting me about my Tamriel flub. I know. I know. And also both sides were written so that ultimately neither would really have the moral high ground. Both are assholes, and both state genuine reasons they would be the better rulers.

Regarding the whole who came to Skyrim first, it was actually elves, the race of men came from Atmora and settled first in Skyrim, then the rest of Tamriel.

Saying "the elves" were first is true, but those elves weren't altmer, bosmer, orsimer, dunmer, or even dwemer. To my knowledge, the original Tamrielic race was ayleid, and I haven't researched where the falmer are from.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

And Skyrim isn't even the original Nord homeland they took it from the original inhabitants. They are originally from another continent north of Tamriel.

You can't get north of Tamriel, that's like going north of Earth. But I think I get what you mean.

Tamriel is actually the continent, the entire world itself is called Mundus, or something.

Anyways, I'll just copy and paste what I wrote on a similar article.

I had a very hard time choosing, this is one of the in-game decisions that I will remember for a long time.

I chose Empire.

The Empire NEEDS Skyrim, and Skyrim NEEDS the Empire. Without the manpower and skill of the Nord troops, the Empire will not win the second war versus the Thalmor. But if Skyrim gains independance, they can't stand alone against the might of the Altmeri Dominion.

If Humanity is to survive the Thalmor's future attacks, (and believe me, they are coming) they will need to be united. The old cliche, divide and conquer.



While the Empire might seem to be a puppet of the Thalmor, you know, the whole concordat and all, make no mistake, shit's going to go down, and soon. The Empire will need every sword at it's disposal. It can't afford to be surrounded by hostile forces on yet another side.

No matter how just the Stormcloaks cause may seem, their demands must be rejected, for the greater good.

Okay. Everyone and their grandmother is quoting me about my Tamriel flub. I know. I know. And also both sides were written so that ultimately neither would really have the moral high ground. Both are assholes, and both state genuine reasons they would be the better rulers.

Regarding the whole who came to Skyrim first, it was actually elves, the race of men came from Atmora and settled first in Skyrim, then the rest of Tamriel.

Saying "the elves" were first is true, but those elves weren't altmer, bosmer, orsimer, dunmer, or even dwemer. To my knowledge, the original Tamrielic race was ayleid, and I haven't researched where the falmer are from.

From what ive read in another thread about the Dwemer, the Falmer were Snow Elves that were driven underground by the Nords, and they then made a pact with the Dwemer who betrayed them somehow, and so they ended up evolving into the Falmer who now hate all surface people.

 

[Therumancer]

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.

1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?

2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?

3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power. Main story spoilers coming up.

Spoiler

During the peace treaty with the Imperials, he acted like a child. he kicked up a fuss because he didn't want to be in the same room as a Thalmore, and then proceeded to demand city after city to be surrendered to the Stormcloaks, whilst ranting away at the Imperials with his bile about "true sons of Skyrim". Even in the face of the total destruction of Skyrim, he continued to act like a child, and to furhter his own power.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

I have similar thoughts overall, but you have to understand the general left wing slant of the gaming community, or at least the vocal part of it, and your dealing with freedom fighters and those crusading for cultural independance. A lot of people look at those aspects and don't bother to consider whether that's the right thing or not, a complicated issue and the points your talking about going over their head.

Of course there is also the slight issue that The Empire was going to chop off your head at the beginning of the game, and didn't even care that you were likely innocent since it was a sort of deniable op. to wipe out the leader of the resistance. I figure a lot of people like me probably look at this RP wise and figure that even if the Stormcloaks are the worse of the two groups the empire *DID* try and kill you.

Also congrats on your observation about the master race stuff, remember these guys are the Aryans/Germans of Tamriel. Personally I'm surprised we hadn't seen a ton of people screaming about the portrayal for reasons of political correctness. On some levels I've gotten a few lulz due to everyone backing the freedom fighters and talking about real world politics without catching onto the whole racial aspect of things.

Basically if Ulfric takes over not only is Skyrim going to have trouble surviving the current threats out there on it's own, but he's also likely to start trying to invade everyone around him for cultural reasons, because in the end that's what the Nord culture
is all about... war mongering for glory. Tamriel was a huge mess of infighting before The Empire unified it, while more ambigious in Daggerfall they are the least of all possible evils you could put in charge of the world by giving them the super-golem, which is why they became the official ending I believe.

 

[michiehoward]

Ahhh guys, don't say The Elves, its not the Elves or all Elves, its a particular group of dick Elves I hope we can obliterate in some future DLC.

 

[predatorpulse7]

I went with the Stormcloaks because they're about the only guys in the area who seem to have a spine and because fuck elves. Oh am I'm Khajit LOL. Technically, shouldn't I be denied entrance into this supremely nord brotherhood?

And I couldn't care less about what the future may bring since the next TES will be in another setting and if it follows the story from Skyrim, there will be only one canon ending so it matters little in the end(if we are talking about influencing future lore). It's a sandbox, have fun with it. Stormcloaks seem to be dicks, Imperials seems to be a-holes and Thalmor are a mix of the two.

 

[Genibus]

Ahhh guys, don't say The Elves, its not the Elves or all Elves, its a particular group of dick Elves I hope we can obliterate in some future DLC.

Is it wrong I hate the Altmer? I've never met a nice one.

Those evil women at the Raidant Raiment are mean about my stylish monk robes.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.

1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?

2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?

3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power. Main story spoilers coming up.

Spoiler

During the peace treaty with the Imperials, he acted like a child. he kicked up a fuss because he didn't want to be in the same room as a Thalmore, and then proceeded to demand city after city to be surrendered to the Stormcloaks, whilst ranting away at the Imperials with his bile about "true sons of Skyrim". Even in the face of the total destruction of Skyrim, he continued to act like a child, and to furhter his own power.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

I have similar thoughts overall, but you have to understand the general left wing slant of the gaming community, or at least the vocal part of it, and your dealing with freedom fighters and those crusading for cultural independance. A lot of people look at those aspects and don't bother to consider whether that's the right thing or not, a complicated issue and the points your talking about going over their head.

Of course there is also the slight issue that The Empire was going to chop off your head at the beginning of the game, and didn't even care that you were likely innocent since it was a sort of deniable op. to wipe out the leader of the resistance. I figure a lot of people like me probably look at this RP wise and figure that even if the Stormcloaks are the worse of the two groups the empire *DID* try and kill you.

Also congrats on your observation about the master race stuff, remember these guys are the Aryans/Germans of Tamriel. Personally I'm surprised we hadn't seen a ton of people screaming about the portrayal for reasons of political correctness. On some levels I've gotten a few lulz due to everyone backing the freedom fighters and talking about real world politics without catching onto the whole racial aspect of things.

Basically if Ulfric takes over not only is Skyrim going to have trouble surviving the current threats out there on it's own, but he's also likely to start trying to invade everyone around him for cultural reasons, because in the end that's what the Nord culture
is all about... war mongering for glory. Tamriel was a huge mess of infighting before The Empire unified it, while more ambigious in Daggerfall they are the least of all possible evils you could put in charge of the world by giving them the super-golem, which is why they became the official ending I believe.

I thought exactly the same thing aswell, at the start i was like, woo time to bring down the evil Empire, Skyrim can govern itself!.. but then by the time i got to Windhelm to sign up i realised the Stormcloaks are basically Nazis and Ulfric is basically Hitler.. they even try to get into power using the same methods, gaining popularity by spreading nationalist dissent, promising a return to the countries former glory after what most citizens feel is an extremely harsh peace treaty.

(ie. Skyrim is basically post ww1 Germany, with its citizens feeling let down by its government/the empire for signing the Treaty of Versailles/The White-Gold Concordat)

 

[Evil Raccoon]

The Imperials look like Romans, end of story for me.
And about the 'cutting my head of' part.
Meh, forgive and forget I suppose.

 

[Outcast107]

snip

You guys are missing everything. First off, Ulric isn't going to kick any non-nords out. They merely don't trust them due to the outsiders telling them how to live and who to believe in. Plus Hitler wanted to conquer all of Europe WHILE Ulric just want the outsiders invasion force kick out EX. The Empire and Dominion.

Plus if any faction a nazi its the Dominion. They are the ones who believe they are better then everyone. They are the ones who are invading everywhere. THEY are the ones who are enforcing their rule on everyone. Its like no one pays attention to the Thalmor as they walk the hall of Empire control cities. Saying how they are the superior race and they are going rule over the "mere humans"

Though I don't mind if you choose the Empire side, but saying the Stormcloaks are nazi is just plain wrong. Just take a look at what the empire is doing to the Nords. Who ever doesn't follow how the Thalmor like are taken from their homes and torture and probably killed. That sounds a LOT more nazish then what the Stormcloaks want.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

snip

You guys are missing everything. First off, Ulric isn't going to kick any non-nords out. They merely don't trust them due to the outsiders telling them how to live and who to believe in. Plus Hitler wanted to conquer all of Europe WHILE Ulric just want the outsiders invasion force kick out EX. The Empire and Dominion.

Plus if any faction a nazi its the Dominion. They are the ones who believe they are better then everyone. They are the ones who are invading everywhere. THEY are the ones who are enforcing their rule on everyone. Its like no one pays attention to the Thalmor as they walk the hall of Empire control cities. Saying how they are the superior race and they are going rule over the "mere humans"

Though I don't mind if you choose the Empire side, but saying the Stormcloaks are nazi is just plain wrong. Just take a look at what the empire is doing to the Nords. Who ever doesn't follow how the Thalmor like are taken from their homes and torture and probably killed. That sounds a LOT more nazish then what the Stormcloaks want.

Im not saying its a perfect comparison, im just saying there are similarities.. and yes the Thalmor are the real bad guys here, every chance i get to kill a Thalmor i take it. (for example i wiped out the Thalmor who kidnapped the Gray-Mane guy, even though im with the Empire.)

Plus in general Ulfric and most of the other Stormcloaks are dicks, same with most of the citizens of Windhelm (I really enjoyed beating up the guy that walks around the Elvish Quarter of the city telling them to go back to where they came from)

 

[xxcloud417xx]

The argument that Talos Worship will be saved by siding with the Stormcloaks is completely and utterly invalid considering the simple fact that once the empire loses the fight in Skyrim and the Stormcloaks take over, the Thalmor will sweep in and do what the empire could not, and that in efficient and bloody fashion. If the might of the Empire could not defeat the Aldmeri Dominion, how does Ulfric expect to?

Ulfric has a huge lack of foresight and I believe everything he does is a grab for more power. Only the Empire can assure survival against the Dominion for at least a few more years to come. Perhaps it would also be time to have someone born with the Dragon's Blood to bear the Amulet of Kings once again, since it can only be worn by a Dragonborn emperor (according to Oblivion) and to relight the dragonfires as well, (you know, before Dagon decides he wants another crack at Tamriel and we get another Oblivion crisis).

 

[Outcast107]

snip

You guys are missing everything. First off, Ulric isn't going to kick any non-nords out. They merely don't trust them due to the outsiders telling them how to live and who to believe in. Plus Hitler wanted to conquer all of Europe WHILE Ulric just want the outsiders invasion force kick out EX. The Empire and Dominion.

Plus if any faction a nazi its the Dominion. They are the ones who believe they are better then everyone. They are the ones who are invading everywhere. THEY are the ones who are enforcing their rule on everyone. Its like no one pays attention to the Thalmor as they walk the hall of Empire control cities. Saying how they are the superior race and they are going rule over the "mere humans"

Though I don't mind if you choose the Empire side, but saying the Stormcloaks are nazi is just plain wrong. Just take a look at what the empire is doing to the Nords. Who ever doesn't follow how the Thalmor like are taken from their homes and torture and probably killed. That sounds a LOT more nazish then what the Stormcloaks want.

Im not saying its a perfect comparison, im just saying there are similarities.. and yes the Thalmor are the real bad guys here, every chance i get to kill a Thalmor i take it. (for example i wiped out the Thalmor who kidnapped the Gray-Mane guy, even though im with the Empire.)

Plus in general Ulfric and most of the other Stormcloaks are dicks, same with most of the citizens of Windhelm (I really enjoyed beating up the guy that walks around the Elvish Quarter of the city telling them to go back to where they came from)[/quote

Just saying, yeah their dicks. Just look at their point of view. 30 years of the Empire just letting the Thalmor do what they want. Plus if you talk to the StormCloaks they are very piss off at the Empire just merely giving up.

How would you feel if you gave your life to fight for the Empire and in the end it meant nothing. I forget the one General name but he goes on saying "I didn't give my life to the Empire just to let some elf tell me how to live my life."

Also this whole war started because Urlic challenge the High King and won. It wasn't murder it was a rightful challenge and the Empire said "um no it was murder." They could have easily let Skyrim and prehaps work out a truth in secret. I"m sure Ulric would have been more then please to help out if this came to be. Urlic gets Skyrim indepentent while helping the Empire get back on its feet in being the "true" empire it once was. As well as get back at those damn Thalmor

Last thing, if the stormcloaks were as racist as everyone said, then why do they let the Dark Elves in their city. Sure they are living in the slums but it is still a home. Plus they are refugees. I don't expect them to get special treatment even if they came to the Empire. True the Stormcloaks might be racist, but I don't think they are really racist. Rather they are just really resentful against outsiders. Plus, if you listen to that guy speech in the start of the windhelm city. He seem he doesn't care if she a dark elf, more that they haven't pick a side in the war. But it just my view on things lol. I just blame the Thalmor for giving the nords a bad view on elven kind.

 

[Outcast107]

The argument that Talos Worship will be saved by siding with the Stormcloaks is completely and utterly invalid considering the simple fact that once the empire loses the fight in Skyrim and the Stormcloaks take over, the Thalmor will sweep in and do what the empire could not, and that in efficient and bloody fashion. If the might of the Empire could not defeat the Aldmeri Dominion, how does Ulfric expect to?

Ulfric has a huge lack of foresight and I believe everything he does is a grab for more power. Only the Empire can assure survival against the Dominion for at least a few more years to come. Perhaps it would also be time to have someone born with the Dragon's Blood to bear the Amulet of Kings once again, since it can only be worn by a Dragonborn emperor (according to Oblivion) and to relight the dragonfires as well, (you know, before Dagon decides he wants another crack at Tamriel and we get another Oblivion crisis).

But hammerfell still fights the Dominion and they are winning. Why can't Skyrim do the same thing? I mean the only reason the Empire is giving stormcloaks such a hard time is because they already had set up bases already. If both Empire and Thalmor are truely kick out then I'm sure Skyrim can be held off fully. Empire most likely get involve again, and the Dominion have to invade on their own. And they have forces already in two different places, a thrid will be hard.

 

[xxcloud417xx]

The argument that Talos Worship will be saved by siding with the Stormcloaks is completely and utterly invalid considering the simple fact that once the empire loses the fight in Skyrim and the Stormcloaks take over, the Thalmor will sweep in and do what the empire could not, and that in efficient and bloody fashion. If the might of the Empire could not defeat the Aldmeri Dominion, how does Ulfric expect to?

Ulfric has a huge lack of foresight and I believe everything he does is a grab for more power. Only the Empire can assure survival against the Dominion for at least a few more years to come. Perhaps it would also be time to have someone born with the Dragon's Blood to bear the Amulet of Kings once again, since it can only be worn by a Dragonborn emperor (according to Oblivion) and to relight the dragonfires as well, (you know, before Dagon decides he wants another crack at Tamriel and we get another Oblivion crisis).

But hammerfell still fights the Dominion and they are winning. Why can't Skyrim do the same thing? I mean the only reason the Empire is giving stormcloaks such a hard time is because they already had set up bases already. If both Empire and Thalmor are truely kick out then I'm sure Skyrim can be held off fully. Empire most likely get involve again, and the Dominion have to invade on their own. And they have forces already in two different places, a thrid will be hard.

Find me a source that says Hammerfell is winning against the Dominion. I find it really hard to believe considering the major Ass-Kicking they gave the empire to force it into submission. I mean, you hear about it all over in Skyrim how the Empire got raped by the Aldmeri Dominion.

 

[Outcast107]

The argument that Talos Worship will be saved by siding with the Stormcloaks is completely and utterly invalid considering the simple fact that once the empire loses the fight in Skyrim and the Stormcloaks take over, the Thalmor will sweep in and do what the empire could not, and that in efficient and bloody fashion. If the might of the Empire could not defeat the Aldmeri Dominion, how does Ulfric expect to?

Ulfric has a huge lack of foresight and I believe everything he does is a grab for more power. Only the Empire can assure survival against the Dominion for at least a few more years to come. Perhaps it would also be time to have someone born with the Dragon's Blood to bear the Amulet of Kings once again, since it can only be worn by a Dragonborn emperor (according to Oblivion) and to relight the dragonfires as well, (you know, before Dagon decides he wants another crack at Tamriel and we get another Oblivion crisis).

But hammerfell still fights the Dominion and they are winning. Why can't Skyrim do the same thing? I mean the only reason the Empire is giving stormcloaks such a hard time is because they already had set up bases already. If both Empire and Thalmor are truely kick out then I'm sure Skyrim can be held off fully. Empire most likely get involve again, and the Dominion have to invade on their own. And they have forces already in two different places, a thrid will be hard.

Find me a source that says Hammerfell is winning against the Dominion. I find it really hard to believe considering the major Ass-Kicking they gave the empire to force it into submission. I mean, you hear about it all over in Skyrim how the Empire got raped by the Aldmeri Dominion.

Edit:

4E 175 ? Hammerfell leaves the Empire after rejecting the White-Gold Concordat.

Titus II renounces Hammerfell as a province of the Empire to preserve the treaty after the Redguards oppose ceding their lands. The Redguards see this as a betrayal, and a lasting bitterness between Hammerfell and the Empire is sown to the delight of the Thalmor. Hammerfell continues to war with the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years.

4E 180 ? The Second Treaty of Stros M'kai is signed.

Having been fought to a standstill by the Redguards, the Aldmeri Dominion completely withdraws from Hammerfell.

Here you go. From a Skyrim wiki. I'm pretty sure there a book about this as well in Skyrim somewhere. But yeah, after the Empire gave up hammerfell, they continue the war and got the Dominion kick out of Hammerfell. Though I'm sure the Dominion will try again.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Hammerfell