Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

How fuckin' original.

Religion appears to get tied in with violence because that makes for a compelling narrative.

No, religion appears to get ties in with violence because it's that fuckin' easy. All you have to do is turn on the TV and watch the news every once in a while, or read a fuckin' history book. Or even better, read one of the Holy Books. There's more evil in those books than in Al-Qaeda suggestion box.

 

[Treblaine]

Everyone, just ignore Treblaine. Click on his name, then click on the rest X icon. Nothing you say is going to convince him of anything and he's just going to continually insult the religious and derail this topic with his ranting.

Stop, ignore him, and let the mods deal with the matter if he continually acts problematic.

To Treblaine specifically... take your issues to the Religion board and stop derailing this topic.

That seems to be an open admission of wilful ignorance. Typical.

Religions shouldn't be insulted by someone stating there is no factual basis to their faith, nor should they be insulted when it is pointed out how their dogma harms and otherwise negatively affects other people either inherently in scripture or by exploitation.

How am I being problematic when I answer questions that you ask? Did you assume I'd be unable to answer them? As to your false and fallacious claims about religion and science it is not the duty of other forum members to kowtow to the first to make claims so as not to cause a "problem". I have been civil. You cannot go off topic and expect no challenge by hypocritically expecting others to not follow in challenge of those claims. Discussion is not "problematic". It however IS a "problematic" to say that religious claims about the natural world cannot be challenged, that is the path to censorship.

And to keep this so on topic, why is challenge to religion a problem rather than religion itself being the problem?

You accuse me of derailing when you start making claims biblical scripture has precedence over scientific method and a load of other false and fallacious claims. Do you expect to preach to this thread and we should all just be silent? That would give it the impression of acceptability if it wasn't challenged.

"take your issues to the Religion board"

What?!?!? You concoct these false and fallacious claims about science and religion, Yet you tell ME TO LEAVE?!!?!?

This is already a topic about religion, the titles is: Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent

You CAN convince me. Just not with baseless claims (goddidit), logical fallacies (prove He didn't) nor hollow threats and blackmail (Pascal's Wager).

This should not be a problem.

 

[Gearhead mk2]

While I can see where this is coming from, I would still disagree. Yes, baddies are often religous in games, but it is almost never meant to comment on real beliefs(save Yevon and the Catholic Church). Besides, most of the time, calling the stuff in games "religon" is a strech, cause most of the time its just a variant on a Scientologist death cult.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Pft, like Religion in Reality was ever perfect... Cue face palms - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

 

[Fleetfiend]

I think this guy has an interesting point. Like he said, video games don't say religion is bad (which is what I originally thought this was going to be about), he just spoke of how they are excessively "problemized". I see where he's coming from. I can't think of one game off the top of my head that includes a religion that isn't directly involved in the conflict of the story in which it is included. As he said; they create interesting moral and physical conflicts.

 

[Fleetfiend]

3 - Nah, forget Schopenhauer and Epicurus and Nietzsche and generations of writers, philosophers, scientists, artists and film-makers who have spoken out negatively against Religion - VIDEO GAMES ARE INDOCTRINATING THE YOUTHS.

From what I gathered from the post, the writer never portrayed video games' depictions of religion as being bad or "indoctrinating our youths," and that they were simply used as an interesting means of conflict and portrayed as violent, never that it causes kids to become anti-religious or anything.

But he also stated that despite the common presence of those themes, he doesn't believe game makers are trying to "purposefully bash" religion. "I believe they are only using religion to create stimulating plot points in their story lines. If you look at videogames across the board, most of them involve violence in some fashion because violence is conflict and conflict is exciting," he continued. "Religion appears to get tied in with violence because that makes for a compelling narrative."

To me, that doesn't seem like it's saying video games are doing anything wrong. Just that they are doing it.

 

[fenrizz]

Spoiler

The bible has not proved itself when it needs to and science has proved itself.

One question then for all powerful Science. What started the universe/Big Bang?

Lots of plausible hypothesis that are being studied in this extremely hard to study area, while none of them involved god and none relate to Christian scripture.

I don't believe in Creationism but I also believe that Evolution isn't the entirety of the truth. There are things in this world that science CANNOT explain. There are quite a few things in this world that it CAN explain. Look at religion throughout history and then put it with the scientific advances throughout history and you will notice that things that the God(s) have done/are responsible for.
You also jumped into this thread and down people's throats who are expressing their beliefs going WRONG WRONG WRONG SCIENCE SAYS SO! Well guess what Science is wrong 90% of the time as well. I mean they don't call it trial and error testing for nothing. There are still things in the Bible that science hasn't disproved. There are also somethings in the bible that Science HAS proved. There is still a lot to learn from the bible and I am guessing the teachings of humility by Jesus has completely gone over your head.

"expressing their beliefs going WRONG WRONG WRONG SCIENCE SAYS SO!"

Well science does say there are wrong. Remember, Christians started this when they kicked down the door to the science classroom and started forcing scripture to be taught as science. I don't have a go at other religions because it doesn't try to corrupt science.

"Well guess what Science is wrong 90% of the time as well."

That defies the definition of science as it requires proof, repeatability, predictability and to be falsifiable. How could we have landed on the moon of 90% of the science was wrong. How can your GPS be so accurate. How are you able to use the internet to make such a claim??!?!

"There are still things in the Bible that science hasn't disproved."

Same with Harry Potter books. Both are JUST books. Why should something which there is no evidence for need to be disproven? That is not how the burden of proof works. You can't accuse someone without any evidence for a crime and say "huh! Well prove you didn't!".

"There are also somethings in the bible that Science HAS proved."

Some part of Harry Potter are true. Like parts of it take place in London, and London is a real city.

"I am guessing the teachings of humility by Jesus has completely gone over your head."

I think that applies much more to you both for how you act and how you are supposed to be following his ideals.

Never said I was Christian.

Also no where recently have Christians knocked down doors and started shoving creationism down peoples throats as fact besides at CHRISTIAN/CATHOLIC schools. The Creationist Museum? Yeah completely private venture. No one s saying that you HAVE to go there and you HAVE to believe it. Yes people latch onto what they are taught but there are more and more people questioning things.

To your statement that Science has proven them wrong. What is the point of saying you BELIEVE in something if you let somethings sway you the other way. I bet that if you did believe in Santa Clause that it took a little bit afterwards for you to actually realize that he wasn't real. Beliefs are something that people hold close to them it doesn't matter whether you like it or not. People will always believe in a higher power.

As for the 90% of science being wrong? Go look up all the debunked hypothesis and all the ones that were changed from their origin. Yeah there is your 90%. Science doesn't mean just the things that worked. Science includes EVERY experiment ever done. Be it by a PHD holder or by a kindergartener Science by definition can and will be wrong on multiple occasions.

As for the "Prove you didn't do it" statement if there is no evidence against the person. There would be no court trials if that were true. Most non-guilty verdicts are people proving that the evidence that is apparently against them is not evidence against them at all. Apparently science can prove and disprove anything. Well it hasn't disproved the existence of a God yet. It has disproved some of the teachings of what it states God has done. But there is a point where science will not prove or disprove it. It might eventually but for now there is no evidence to contradict a higher power.

You talk about "the Bible" being true without a shred of evidence, you're a Christian. You may claim to not be a creationism yet you espouse creationist ideals of god creating things rather than natural processes.

Christians HAVE forced secular public schools to kowtow to this theory, not just private religious schools and even then those private religious schools have a public responsibility to - if they want the reputation as teachers to standards of national curriculum - should teach SCIENCE in the science classrooms!

"What is the point of saying you BELIEVE in something if you let somethings sway you the other way."

So you admitting to wilful ignorance? To believe in holy scripture and damn everything else, just dismiss, ignore and reject. Typical creationist stance.

The fact that even the majority (you seem to have pulled 90% figure out of your ass) of science experiments going against expectation does NOT make science wrong, that adds to its strength that so many lines of enquiry have been tested and keeps adjusing theory to fit WITH ACTUAL PRACTICE! It's not about dogma, it's about the hard results of experiments and studies, Science get excited when the results go AGAINST expectations!

"Most non-guilty verdicts are people proving that the evidence that is apparently against them is not evidence against them at all."

Yes but there must be SOME prima-facie-evidence to analyse and weigh. Bible doesn't have that. It's just baseless ancient rumour.

"Well it hasn't disproved the existence of a God yet."

Well, no more than science has not yet disproved the existence of Santa Clause either. Really, science has disproved both by their claims being impossible.

It has disproved almost every one of the claims of natural providence to the point of making the work wholly unreliable. If you know a man has been caught out lying over and over and over and over again... would you still ask for more of his outlandish and unsupported claims to be "proven wrong" before thinking it might be a bad idea to start forcing his lies on education and public policy.

It is intellectually insulting to treat the Bible as fact or even remotely reliable.

Indeed.

It is good too see another voice of reason on these boards.
Keep up the good work, Sir.

 

[InvisibleMan]

I'm surprised (as I'm sure most everyone else is) that the study didn't even take a look at Dead Space...

 

[BrotherRool]

God is perfect, not as descriptor, but as a thing. Literally perfect.

Someone hasn't been reading their Kant. Perfection is not a predicate. I hope we aren't giving an ontological argument for the existence of God. Those went out of style in the 1700s.

Pascal's wager I'll talk about more, because it's something i particularly joy because it suits my world view very well. The point about pascals wager isn't actually about hell as such. It's simply if life is finite, than ultimately there is nothing to be won or lost. It happens, you die, you don't even get to know what happens. The most important thing you care about now will be more than nothing. You could punch someone today and in the blink of an eye no-one will be around to remember it happened. Whereas something eternal will always be infinitely more important than something finite. If you aim for ever and you miss, you won't be around to know and if it is true then you'll have done something that actually has meaning.

Pascal's wager only works if there are two options: materialism and Christianity. But in actuality there are multiple, mutually exclusive options in the form of each religion. So if you're going to buy into pascal's wager you're going to end up looking like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDWR5RkWRTY

There's an even bigger problem with Pascal's wager, that neither belief nor faith work that way. You can't just decide to worship God because its got to do with what you really think, not just what you've concluded is most beneficial for yourself. The correct approach would be to find a religion that places worth purely on some material thing, say sacrificing Broccoli and yet still promises eternal reward and follow that. Even with multiple religions it's still better to aim for the hope of one eternal thing because you'll either be better off or just the same as you would have been if you continued on a non-atheistic path.

I still think finite existence is worthless though. It's hard to describe because its something I've been sure of from a very young age but it wasn't at all involved with how I eventually ended up as a christian. Even now as I am, it's not that I think 'oh a finite existence sucks, better believe in God' but 'a finite existence sucks, lucky for me that's not the case though'. I can say it didn't influence because I'll be honest it's only really recently that I even liked the sound of heaven. For the other 4 years I was afraid of it, put off by it or at best apathetic to it.

The idea that existence is futile didn't even depress me, or scare me or anger me, because reacting in that way is equally pointless. I was less motivated to do charity work because even the people you help would just die, but I don't think it affected my life much either way. I couldn't work up a passion about anything so much and I guess I might have done some more non-sequitor things, because hey, if you're free from consequence why not make life a bit weirder?

Hmm I don't know. I don't think that the people around me share my opinion, but I've never seen a reason not to have it. I'd be interested if you've got some counter-arguments.

I didn't reply to your Kant bit, because tbh you clearly know a lot more philosophy/theology than I do, so I'll just take from it that I've got a lot more learning to do before I think stuff.

 

[noobium]

Know what else "problematize" organized religion: Learning History

 

[BrotherRool]

If the gods of Hinduism appeared to you and directly threatened you to give up Christianity and convert to their religion... would YOU!

"if right now God proved his existence to you, would you want to go to heaven? In that heaven is being perfectly united with God?"

I'd have some reservations, like for example I'd ask him to STOP TORTURING BILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR ALL ETERNITY! Muhatma Ghandi is in there being tortured because he is Hindu, I am NOT OK at all hanging around with a god who would do such a thing. Heavy hand or not HE DOES NOT HAVE TO!

"God is perfect"

Bullshit. He admits to torturing billions of Hindus! This is circular logic, he is perfect because he says so, that he is perfect. When even the concept is not.

" But 'God is love'. Every time you have smiled in your life, every time you've felt love for someone or been loved by someone, that was God."

God will take credit for ANYTHING!

The very concept of this god I find monumentally offensive. You cannot deny that it tries to scare people into believing and obeying and with that belief charlatans can quote the bible and give false legitimacy to their claims. It is no zero sum thing believing in the God of the bible... believing his words that call for gays to be lynched, that evolution and all of geography are wrong.

This is exactly my point, we've all made our choice and if the Hindu God(s) appeared and proved there existence to me, yes I'd probably still not follow them. And if I openly reject them, then yeah I can't see an eternal existence between me and them happening. I would know this and willingly take the consequences of my choice.

It's not nice, but on the other hand, the alternative is the Hindu God(s) actually changing my mind so that I follow them and in all honest I would hate that so much more. If I die forever than at least my life had meaning and I was allowed to have an impact on the own course of my future. I understand that I've been given the offer and in various religions, that that offer was unconditional and in-spite of the way i've acted in my life towards them and other people and I understand that I have consciously rejected that offer and chosen the other path and I'm happy with that choice.

I'm not happy that other people have made that choice and in all honesty, I pray pretty frequently that God will have done something brilliant that allows people to have free will and eternal life. It's not completely out of the question, because he did it once before in the crossing from Judea focus to world focus and there's a parable in the bible, about how if you've worked for your reward and when the time comes other people have got it, well don't be jealous, you haven't been paid any less.

Obviously it was meant for the Jewish people accepting that Roman's and Greek were going to be allowed to share God with them, but it could still happen.

And as I've said, there are equal cases in the bible for non-existence, or short existence then destruction and I do hope that if my prayer can't be answered then one of those turns out to be correct, but in the end, I've got to trust in God that it's going to turn out all right.

As I've said I've made that choice and I've got some Muslim friends I know who've made the same choice but the other way and I respect them from being comfortable with it.But if you don't mind me saying, I don't think you seem very comfortable with your choice yet, or at least it doesn't come across that way

I'll be frank for you anyone who believes that God commanded gays to be lynched is not a christian and needs to be saved. Urgently. There are so so many things you can show them that tell them what they're doing is absolutely wrong and hateful and if they don't listen to that, then they aren't listening to anything. God instructed, strictly, that the correct response for someone punching you in the face is to pray that they have a good healthy life and let them punch you again. That the correct answer to someone stealing your coat is to hope that it'll keep them warm and maybe seeking them out and helping them with the heating bill if they're having trouble with it.

An adulterer was brought before Jesus and they asked him to stone her. He just replied that not one person there had the right to judge anyone else, because their hearts were just as full with sin.

When people came to arrest Jesus he actually healed them.

When Jesus was on the cross, one of his last words were that God would _forgive_ the people who were actively murdering his son.

Far from killing sinners, Jesus spent most of his time with those who sinned and society looked upon and rejected for what they did. He ate with prostitutes and extortioners and loved them, deliberately avoiding the company of the 'religious' righteous people who said that these people were sinners and should be avoided.

If people can read this and still be so bloody-minded and xenophobic that they refuse to believe the words and instead preach the fear and hate in their heart, then these people need our pity and compassion because they have gone so far down the wrong path and their heart and soul is so shrivelled and burdened by the weight of their sin.

As for creationists, well I'm cool with them and respect their faith, they've just got to understand that they can't decide this for others and they've got to let the world work as it should. But in the end, even the Pope doesn't think Genesis says what they say it says.

My church at home is full of a lot of really awesome people. I've been lucky enough to live in an area where we just don't see the extremists and fake christians and there are tons and tons of teachers and doctors and nurses and people like that and I'll be honest, that was part of the reason I started going to church before I was a christian, among them are some of the nicest people I've ever had privileged of knowing but some of them are creationists and it hasn't affected the good stuff they do with their lives. They wouldn't make good geologists or physicists, but that isn't their calling in life and they aren't demanding that the world changes to suit their thinking. Apart from a certain area of a certain country it's mainly a self correcting problem. Non of the christian physicists/chemists/scientists in general I know are creationists and I don't think they would be what they are if they were. At least even in that certain area the law has seen to it that the affects on other people are limited

 

[Atmos Duality]

What a shock. News story about "religion" and "games", and it goes to 11 pages.
Gee, I wonder why? Could it be the tired ol' "Atheist Pride vs Theist Pride" again?

Keep up the good work Internet.

 

[Treblaine]

If the gods of Hinduism appeared to you and directly threatened you to give up Christianity and convert to their religion... would YOU!

"if right now God proved his existence to you, would you want to go to heaven? In that heaven is being perfectly united with God?"

I'd have some reservations, like for example I'd ask him to STOP TORTURING BILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR ALL ETERNITY! Muhatma Ghandi is in there being tortured because he is Hindu, I am NOT OK at all hanging around with a god who would do such a thing. Heavy hand or not HE DOES NOT HAVE TO!

"God is perfect"

Bullshit. He admits to torturing billions of Hindus! This is circular logic, he is perfect because he says so, that he is perfect. When even the concept is not.

" But 'God is love'. Every time you have smiled in your life, every time you've felt love for someone or been loved by someone, that was God."

God will take credit for ANYTHING!

The very concept of this god I find monumentally offensive. You cannot deny that it tries to scare people into believing and obeying and with that belief charlatans can quote the bible and give false legitimacy to their claims. It is no zero sum thing believing in the God of the bible... believing his words that call for gays to be lynched, that evolution and all of geography are wrong.

This is exactly my point, we've all made our choice and if the Hindu God(s) appeared and proved there existence to me, yes I'd probably still not follow them. And if I openly reject them, then yeah I can't see an eternal existence between me and them happening. I would know this and willingly take the consequences of my choice.

It's not nice, but on the other hand, the alternative is the Hindu God(s) actually changing my mind so that I follow them and in all honest I would hate that so much more. If I die forever than at least my life had meaning and I was allowed to have an impact on the own course of my future. I understand that I've been given the offer and in various religions, that that offer was unconditional and in-spite of the way i've acted in my life towards them and other people and I understand that I have consciously rejected that offer and chosen the other path and I'm happy with that choice.

I'm not happy that other people have made that choice and in all honesty, I pray pretty frequently that God will have done something brilliant that allows people to have free will and eternal life. It's not completely out of the question, because he did it once before in the crossing from Judea focus to world focus and there's a parable in the bible, about how if you've worked for your reward and when the time comes other people have got it, well don't be jealous, you haven't been paid any less.

Obviously it was meant for the Jewish people accepting that Roman's and Greek were going to be allowed to share God with them, but it could still happen.

And as I've said, there are equal cases in the bible for non-existence, or short existence then destruction and I do hope that if my prayer can't be answered then one of those turns out to be correct, but in the end, I've got to trust in God that it's going to turn out all right.

As I've said I've made that choice and I've got some Muslim friends I know who've made the same choice but the other way and I respect them from being comfortable with it.But if you don't mind me saying, I don't think you seem very comfortable with your choice yet, or at least it doesn't come across that way

I'll be frank for you anyone who believes that God commanded gays to be lynched is not a christian and needs to be saved. Urgently. There are so so many things you can show them that tell them what they're doing is absolutely wrong and hateful and if they don't listen to that, then they aren't listening to anything. God instructed, strictly, that the correct response for someone punching you in the face is to pray that they have a good healthy life and let them punch you again. That the correct answer to someone stealing your coat is to hope that it'll keep them warm and maybe seeking them out and helping them with the heating bill if they're having trouble with it.

An adulterer was brought before Jesus and they asked him to stone her. He just replied that not one person there had the right to judge anyone else, because their hearts were just as full with sin.

When people came to arrest Jesus he actually healed them.

When Jesus was on the cross, one of his last words were that God would _forgive_ the people who were actively murdering his son.

Far from killing sinners, Jesus spent most of his time with those who sinned and society looked upon and rejected for what they did. He ate with prostitutes and extortioners and loved them, deliberately avoiding the company of the 'religious' righteous people who said that these people were sinners and should be avoided.

If people can read this and still be so bloody-minded and xenophobic that they refuse to believe the words and instead preach the fear and hate in their heart, then these people need our pity and compassion because they have gone so far down the wrong path and their heart and soul is so shrivelled and burdened by the weight of their sin.

As for creationists, well I'm cool with them and respect their faith, they've just got to understand that they can't decide this for others and they've got to let the world work as it should. But in the end, even the Pope doesn't think Genesis says what they say it says.

My church at home is full of a lot of really awesome people. I've been lucky enough to live in an area where we just don't see the extremists and fake christians and there are tons and tons of teachers and doctors and nurses and people like that and I'll be honest, that was part of the reason I started going to church before I was a christian, among them are some of the nicest people I've ever had privileged of knowing but some of them are creationists and it hasn't affected the good stuff they do with their lives. They wouldn't make good geologists or physicists, but that isn't their calling in life and they aren't demanding that the world changes to suit their thinking. Apart from a certain area of a certain country it's mainly a self correcting problem. Non of the christian physicists/chemists/scientists in general I know are creationists and I don't think they would be what they are if they were. At least even in that certain area the law has seen to it that the affects on other people are limited

What a load of nonsense. This UTTERLY flies in the face of the facts and reason.

You expect me to convert to Christianity if I see proof of the God-of-the-Christian-Bible yet you remain bloody minded that you have "made your choice" that even if you see the supernatural proof that Hinduism is the one true religion you sill still reject it.

Hypocrisy. Pure hypocrisy.

You are victim of deluded thinking, you think God is real just because you believe in him regardless of everything about the actual observable world.

Everywhere you assume god did this. Rather than Christianity is simply the evangelisation of Judaism orchestrated by priest who wanted a wider and ever expanding flock to hear and blindly accept their ideology.

"God instructed, strictly, that the correct response for someone punching you in the face is to pray that they have a good healthy life and let them punch you again. That the correct answer to someone stealing your coat is to hope that it'll keep them warm and maybe seeking them out and helping them with the heating bill if they're having trouble with it."

Irrelevant nonsense as is borne out in fact. The punishment for theft in Christian countries is to be locked in a cold cell, the punishment for violence is reaction and punishment.

The practice of Christians IS "Jesus Forgives, I don't". They have transplanted forgiveness to be something that is only possible in the after life and that forgiveness is not for in this world

"An adulterer was brought before Jesus and they asked him to stone her. He just replied that not one person there had the right to judge anyone else, because their hearts were just as full with sin."

He doesn't say that adultery isn't a crime against society, he simply says we are too meek to punish for it. What if a murderer or child rapist was brought before Jesus? would he say they cannot be punished and they should be let go because "we are just as guilty"?

This pacifism is useless and inaccurate. Christianity didn't get where it is today from pacifism. When it was struck by opposing religions it's didn't turn the other cheek, it started the crusades!

And why is it atheist organisation who are the loudest opponents of Westbro Baptist Church? And of course they all fit in perfectly with your ideal that all humans should be meek pacifists, Westbo Baptist Church is causing offence by claiming GOD is responsible for all these horrible things and we DESERVE all this as gods wrath. Why should we accept this? God or not he is acting like a psychopath, he doesn't deserve to be prayed to, we should be plotting how to destroy him, to stop this being dealing death and destruction.

 

[targren]

Yanno, I'm pretty sure it's, yanno... all of recorded human history that "problematizes" (WTF? Is that even a thing?) religion as violent, actually.

Besides, in Dragon Quest, the churches were on your side, so cut the QQ.

 

[Kimarous]

This pacifism is useless and inaccurate. Christianity didn't get where it is today from pacifism. When it was struck by opposing religions it's didn't turn the other cheek, it started the crusades!

Not entirely true. It mostly held true to their pacifism during their early days, but once the Roman emperors adopted it, suddenly it was no longer a peaceful underground religion and now a powerful force they felt was obligated to share with everyone, willing or not.

On a side note, the whole "divine right of kings" started when a devout Eastern Roman empress got booted out of a chapel on account of being a woman, and when she kicked up a fuss about it, this gradually got her equated with the Virgin Mary, and if she was producing the heirs of the "holy" Romans, than they have a divine right to their rule. Other kingdoms played "follow the leader" and adopted this mentality to assert their rule. Byzantium was still stuck in this mentality by the time most of Europe thought it was a stupid idea; that's part of why nobody helped the Byzantines against the Turks - they thought the Emperor was a pompous ass.

In the end, it's less that the original religion was corrupt so much as the Romans twisting things around.

 

[Sylveria]

He forgot SMT2 where you try to kill God. He'd have a field day with it.

Some time ago one of those Christian zealot organizations.. ya know.. the kind that don't wanna be portrayed as violent while they espouse violence against gays, Muslims, abortion clinics, etc, made a play to have games with religious themes to be rated for "Satanic content" specifically citing games like SMT:Nocturne and Shadow Hearts where you kill a "god" entity as the final boss.

Though, it was interesting to learn that some Christian groups think their god is the same as the one in Shadow Hearts.. a gigantic space insect monster. The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is way off.

 

[Treblaine]

This pacifism is useless and inaccurate. Christianity didn't get where it is today from pacifism. When it was struck by opposing religions it's didn't turn the other cheek, it started the crusades!

Not entirely true. It mostly held true to their pacifism during their early days, but once the Roman emperors adopted it, suddenly it was no longer a peaceful underground religion and now a powerful force they felt was obligated to share with everyone, willing or not.

On a side note, the whole "divine right of kings" started when a devout Eastern Roman empress got booted out of a chapel on account of being a woman, and when she kicked up a fuss about it, this gradually got her equated with the Virgin Mary, and if she was producing the heirs of the "holy" Romans, than they have a divine right to their rule. Other kingdoms played "follow the leader" and adopted this mentality to assert their rule. Byzantium was still stuck in this mentality by the time most of Europe thought it was a stupid idea; that's part of why nobody helped the Byzantines against the Turks - they thought the Emperor was a pompous ass.

In the end, it's less that the original religion was corrupt so much as the Romans twisting things around.

I see these religions for what they are, the way they ACTUALLY act, not they way you say they are supposed to act.

And don't act like it's a good idea to get "back to basics" with the bible with the whole duality of either stoning adulterers and homosexuals... or the other extreme of saying we can't punish any guilty people.

This "turn the other cheek" pacifism is only going to lead to believers getting robbed and murdered but maybe they'd be fine with that as they hold the delusion of Heaven so will have little qualms with throwing away their precious lives and the lives of their family and letting barbarians prevail.

 

[Sylveria]

Ohh, not like books and film then and religions themselves? No, just vidja gaems.


Gocha........

Anyone up for trying to prove Mario is responsible for 9/11? Got a feeling that's where this is headin. I figure if we beat them to it we might get a sweaty.

In super Mario Brother's 3 there's one of the desert levels where you must use a turtle shell to destroy blocks to enter a pyramid. Now, clearly the desert setting is representative of the middle east where Islam is the dominant religion and the blocks represent Western influence as well as the state of Isreal and the WTC towers, preventing Mario, who is an allegory for the Islamic followers, from entering into the pyramid, which represents the holy land. In the face of this western and Zionist oppression, Mario must use force in order to move forward to his goals. The turtle shell represents the planes from 9/11 and how Mario must use this planes to simultaneously break down the walls of his oppressors and the WTC towers.

The hijackers obviously played SMB3 and figured out all this deep symbolism and that inspired the 9/11 attack. And there you have it, Mario caused 9/11.