or the OTHER SMT games where god is the last boss .......RaikuFA said:
other wise ... sounds like he doesn't think its much of an issue so, points for him having a brain that works
Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent
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other wise ... sounds like he doesn't think its much of an issue so, points for him having a brain that works
First off, that's a paltry selection of games to base a study off of, both being small in number and narrow in category, being primarily adventure games and RPGs.
Second, I'm sure that people would be even more upset if and when the player is acting on behalf of religion, because the designer(s) could:
A: Use a real-world religion and be criticized for promoting one over the other, or
B: Make up a fake religion and be criticized for either mocking real religions or making thinly-veiled attacks at them.
Not to say that religion can't be touched upon in games. I think Skyrim got it right (one way, at least), where the deity you follow is of little consequence outside of stat-boosts.
Second, I'm sure that people would be even more upset if and when the player is acting on behalf of religion, because the designer(s) could:
A: Use a real-world religion and be criticized for promoting one over the other, or
B: Make up a fake religion and be criticized for either mocking real religions or making thinly-veiled attacks at them.
Not to say that religion can't be touched upon in games. I think Skyrim got it right (one way, at least), where the deity you follow is of little consequence outside of stat-boosts.
Yes all for the sake of compelling narrative, it has nothing to do with creating a realistic narrative by fictionalizing shit that has actually happened.
Religion provides a means to influence very large numbers of people, for better or worse it's the truth. No other influence can project the opinions of so few key people into the way so many different people of different nations live their lives. To use religion as a social construct that impedes the progress of an individual is logical and real.
Especially considering religion is founded on faith not logic. Who would believe Shin-Ra would knowingly destroy the planet to turn a profit, they have to live here too. But if the impeding doom of the world goes against a core belief then no faithful person would listen to the heresy.
For some reason I'm reminded of the Peter Cotton Tail episode of South Park right now...
Well, he looked at two games of Japanese design (FF and CV), and it's probably well-known by now to anyone who grew up with Japanese games that the Shinto-majority culture of Japan tends not to look very highly on organised religion in general. (How many Shin Megami Tensei games have God as the final boss? Saga, Breath of Fire, and so on...) I wonder if the Japanese origin of so much of modern (i.e. post-Great-Crash) videogaming has to do with that tendency? (Probably not at all, but the question came to mind anyway.)
And I suspect it's not so much religion, but any organised group that gets targetted in videogames. By their nature, video gaming tends to adopt a one-against-the-world mentality - it only makes sense when most games are naturally designed to involve controlling a single, central character. In that sort of narrative environment, a large, shadowy organisation with questionable motives makes an ideal adversary. Whether it's a religion, a cult (and the line can be fine between those two), a government, a supra-governmental entity, an alien race, or what have you, they all fit the bill as a source of antagonism. I don't think it's specific to religion. Which I think is pretty much what he's saying.
And I suspect it's not so much religion, but any organised group that gets targetted in videogames. By their nature, video gaming tends to adopt a one-against-the-world mentality - it only makes sense when most games are naturally designed to involve controlling a single, central character. In that sort of narrative environment, a large, shadowy organisation with questionable motives makes an ideal adversary. Whether it's a religion, a cult (and the line can be fine between those two), a government, a supra-governmental entity, an alien race, or what have you, they all fit the bill as a source of antagonism. I don't think it's specific to religion. Which I think is pretty much what he's saying.
Who is the violent religious sect in Mass Effect 2???
Also, the Protoss in Starcraft would be another good example.
Also, the Protoss in Starcraft would be another good example.
Huh, never really noticed all that before, suppose it's slightly realistic in most cases, Dragon Age is a excellent example, with the templar mage war, which isn't even a case of conflicting religion, the equivalent of a Church going to war with gays (admittedly gay people can't shoot lightning so it might be slightly more one-sided)
Nah, im not raging. Quite the opposite. Im rofling like a school girl getting tickled by her first boyfriend who shes going to date and marry for the rest of her lifeGrandmaFunk said:
"I believe they are only using religion to create stimulating plot points in their story lines"
Which, is almost a completely wrong statement, because almost every game that revolves around religion, has its entire STORY wrapped around it. Not just "plot points".
And other then the fact that religion itself is known to be violent, brainwashing, people sacrificing or any combination of those, id say that video games are just stating the obvious.
Honestly, his statement itself is rather redundant >.>; "Games are tying video games to violence, and the violence is emphasized." Thats because most religions that have existed openly flaunted their violence, passed out books that involved rape, slavery and slaughter of the innocent, and murder those who dont believe in them word for word.
Sure he says that he doesnt believe its trying to bash religion or anything. But then his entire theory as a whole is just, "Theres violence in video games because its part of a story." Gee, thanks random student who is unnamed for some reason that probably isnt, "my study was a waste of time, and was a good excuse to just play video games for a month"!
I'm not fan of religion, I recognize it as probably the greatest catalyst for violence in human history. That being said I have to give this guy props for being reasonable with his ctiticism. He wasn't all 'VIDEO GAMES ARE TEACHIN THE CHILDRUNS THAT RELIGION IS BAD. ALL VIDEYA GAMES IS SATAN!'. He was pretty fair in his reasoning.
I can't seem to recall the correct verse but in Deuteronomy in the Old testament there is detailed instructions on how to rape and marry a woman against her will.kouriichi said:""problematize" organized religion by equating it with violence in their stories."
Yeaaaaah...... Hate to break it to you, but i can name half a dozen verses off the top of my head that are nothing but violence, rape and mass murder.
Lets just go with Psalm 137
"Joyful is the one who takes, and dashes his children against the stone."
See, i was raised christian, and forced to read the bible several times. Of course, i quickly learned the bible is more fucked up then ripping a dudes spine out in Mortal Kombat, and refused to go to Brainwash Scho-..... I mean Sunday School. :3 Honest.
Maybe when a real Doctor of something says something, it will be worth listening to. Not a Doctoral Student, who says something which was probably PURPOSELY controversial with so little truth to it.
"OHHHH! Forgive video gaming and its sins for PROPERLY showing what religion is, and has been capable of." - Me
If while at war with another people, and you see among the captives a woman that you desire. You must shave her head, paint her nails, and give her a month to grieve, after that you "may enter into her and if she gives you pleasure you may take her as your wife. However if she did not bring any pleasure to you then you may set her free to go where she wishes for she has been humiliated."
it's pretty funny their are also verses that say the sun orbits around the earth.
"The earth is fixed at (or near) the center of the universe. The sun and other planets travel around it. That is what the Bible plainly says [Ps. 93:1, Ps. 19:1-6, Joshua 10:12-14] and what the evidence indicates. " Source [http://creationwiki.org/Bible_says_the_sun_goes_around_the_earth_-_Part_2_%28Talk.Origins%29]
I <3 you for putting "problematize" in quotes every single time it appears. Gratuitous use of that word has driven me nuts for a very long time. It all started back in the day when one of my friends was an undergrad and taking some class or other for her Modern Culture and Media major and working on an analysis paper of some sort. I think everyone in the class was in the beginning of their third year by that point, so they'd had some time to become familiar with the academic terminology and whatnot.Andy Chalk said:
Anyway, I proofread/edited my friend's paper to help her out, and the unnecessary use of that word several times in half a dozen pages jumped out at me because "normal" people never, ever use it. Just out of curiosity I looked at a couple others of hers and some by other people in the same class. Without exception, every single one contained the word "problematize", generally for no good reason, and usually more than once. You do not need to try to insert a fancy word (half the time incorrectly) when something more straightforward would get your point across even better and to more people. Academic writing makes me want to problematize someone in the kidney.
Too...tired...to be...snide.
Anyways, of the games listed, at least two of them deal with very real religious conflicts that are/were intensely violent, and therefore should be praised instead of criticized. Of the remainder, I've never played Final Fantasy 13 and therefore don't know what he's talking about, and I honestly have no concept of what terrible religious conflict there is in Oblivion. If he had said Skyrim on the other hand, I could see what he was talking about.
Also:
Damn, apparently I'm not that tired...
EDIT: Also, "problematize"?
Anyways, of the games listed, at least two of them deal with very real religious conflicts that are/were intensely violent, and therefore should be praised instead of criticized. Of the remainder, I've never played Final Fantasy 13 and therefore don't know what he's talking about, and I honestly have no concept of what terrible religious conflict there is in Oblivion. If he had said Skyrim on the other hand, I could see what he was talking about.
Also:
That explains so many problems in real life.
Damn, apparently I'm not that tired...
EDIT: Also, "problematize"?
Haha, now comes the horde of angry gamers saying it's simply untrue that it's been "problematized" because religion is the most evil thing in the world.
Only, while there are crimes that religious organization are certainly guilty of, there are plenty of positive things that come out of organized religion, but I suppose we can all ignore this. I mean, there is the crusades, the Catholic/Protestant war in Ireland, the Spanish Inquisition, hate crimes against black people/asian people/jewish people/white people, etc/etc. It can go on forever. The only thing that people fail to realize is that these things exist because of social problems outside of religion, and since religion is such a big part of everyone's lives at any given point in time, it gets the finger pointed at it. It's not usually religion that is guilty of these things, it's usually people within that religion that guilty.
But, as the paper said, it is the focal point of many games. He is not incorrect in that. But, religion is not the cause of all the worlds ills like many would like to think.
Only, while there are crimes that religious organization are certainly guilty of, there are plenty of positive things that come out of organized religion, but I suppose we can all ignore this. I mean, there is the crusades, the Catholic/Protestant war in Ireland, the Spanish Inquisition, hate crimes against black people/asian people/jewish people/white people, etc/etc. It can go on forever. The only thing that people fail to realize is that these things exist because of social problems outside of religion, and since religion is such a big part of everyone's lives at any given point in time, it gets the finger pointed at it. It's not usually religion that is guilty of these things, it's usually people within that religion that guilty.
But, as the paper said, it is the focal point of many games. He is not incorrect in that. But, religion is not the cause of all the worlds ills like many would like to think.
If you point out a group of games with violent Knights Templar you will have a study in which all the games you study have violent Knights Templar in them.
It is like when the big 'violence in video games' freakout happened and you would read reports like: "Researches study the games: Modern Warfare, Grand Theft Auto, Battlefield, Warcraft, and Age of Empires and found violence in all of these games." I could have told you that!
Where are games like Minecraft or Audiosurf in his list of studied games?
It is like when the big 'violence in video games' freakout happened and you would read reports like: "Researches study the games: Modern Warfare, Grand Theft Auto, Battlefield, Warcraft, and Age of Empires and found violence in all of these games." I could have told you that!
Where are games like Minecraft or Audiosurf in his list of studied games?
I do believe it was "If you rape an unmarried woman, you must pay the father 50 coin and marry her, never to devorce" xD And yes, it was Deuteronomy.Sandytimeman said:I can't seem to recall the correct verse but in Deuteronomy in the Old testament there is detailed instructions on how to rape and marry a woman against her will.kouriichi said:""problematize" organized religion by equating it with violence in their stories."
Yeaaaaah...... Hate to break it to you, but i can name half a dozen verses off the top of my head that are nothing but violence, rape and mass murder.
Lets just go with Psalm 137
"Joyful is the one who takes, and dashes his children against the stone."
See, i was raised christian, and forced to read the bible several times. Of course, i quickly learned the bible is more fucked up then ripping a dudes spine out in Mortal Kombat, and refused to go to Brainwash Scho-..... I mean Sunday School. :3 Honest.
Maybe when a real Doctor of something says something, it will be worth listening to. Not a Doctoral Student, who says something which was probably PURPOSELY controversial with so little truth to it.
"OHHHH! Forgive video gaming and its sins for PROPERLY showing what religion is, and has been capable of." - Me
If while at war with another people, and you see among the captives a woman that you desire. You must shave her head, paint her nails, and give her a month to grieve, after that you "may enter into her and if she gives you pleasure you may take her as your wife. However if she did not bring any pleasure to you then you may set her free to go where she wishes for she has been humiliated."
it's pretty funny their are also verses that say the sun orbits around the earth.
"The earth is fixed at (or near) the center of the universe. The sun and other planets travel around it. That is what the Bible plainly says [Ps. 93:1, Ps. 19:1-6, Joshua 10:12-14] and what the evidence indicates. " Source [http://creationwiki.org/Bible_says_the_sun_goes_around_the_earth_-_Part_2_%28Talk.Origins%29]
The bible and its "teachings" are far worse then anything modern media has ever depicted. Everything it condemns, it tells stories of. Video Games only touch the violent side of religion, because thats the only one they CAN touch without having mobs of angry parents burning down the corporate office.
So this thread is EXACTLY why you cant have an open-minded discussion about religion. Ill just point that out real quick, because if a thread even mentions religion, its all 'OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTE', 'RAGE AGAINST CHRISTIANITY', when the topic doesn't even have a motive to talk about religion specifically.
On topic though... I agree with a few people, its a pretty pointless study. Yes, religion is used as a plot in some games today (open sandbox worlds usually have at least 1 crazy religion/cult), so its not surprising. Also, this doesn't seem to have any real world uses... so why is it needed?
On topic though... I agree with a few people, its a pretty pointless study. Yes, religion is used as a plot in some games today (open sandbox worlds usually have at least 1 crazy religion/cult), so its not surprising. Also, this doesn't seem to have any real world uses... so why is it needed?