yes but thalmor are all around supposed to be evil guys because they are parallel to nazis. and since talos is human, they find it inferior to them. its barely to do with religion, more on the fact that the thalmor find themselves superior to other races. talos is just an excuse. the 8 divines themselves are fine as a religion and everyone is happy with them. the daedra on the other hand....thats no no religion for you.Jinxey said:
Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Do those games have overt portrayals of religion in them?DrLoveNKiss said:
Not all games present religion, the researcher just picked a handful of some of the most popular games that do. I have to agree with him: religion is almost invariably associated with violence, even when the games aren't explicitly blaming the religion for causing the violence, or promoting it. Heck, even Father Grigori makes biblical puns whilst shooting zombies. Or bishops on the battlefield of a chessboard.
It is fairly rare to see a religion promote peace in a game and extremely rare for a game to depict a religion as exclusively peaceful. I guess Okami has a couple, and there are those priests in Age of Empires (whom everyone has to kill first).
At first I was like "Ugh"
Then I was like "Meh"
To be fair to the guy, he's not trying to be all "VIDEO GAMES ARE EEEEVIL AND THEY ARE EVIL ON PURPOSE AND WE MUST PROTEST THEM FOR THEY ARE BAD!"
Though I would say that it's not just games... I mean, Doctor Who had a whole religious military bit (though they were ostensibly good guys there)
I'd also argue that there are plenty of non-violent religious themes in video games, especially RPGs. I mean, they're often tied into the combat, but it's usually not a matter of organized religious violence.
Then I was like "Meh"
To be fair to the guy, he's not trying to be all "VIDEO GAMES ARE EEEEVIL AND THEY ARE EVIL ON PURPOSE AND WE MUST PROTEST THEM FOR THEY ARE BAD!"
Though I would say that it's not just games... I mean, Doctor Who had a whole religious military bit (though they were ostensibly good guys there)
I'd also argue that there are plenty of non-violent religious themes in video games, especially RPGs. I mean, they're often tied into the combat, but it's usually not a matter of organized religious violence.
I am glad the violent side of religion is being emphasised, it is so often defended and the history of actual events excused by apologist actors.
On the presentation of religious actors, I do worry that it will become quite predictable and eventually stale in the medium for them all to be cast in the negative, as villains, templars, evil clerics. I don't mind a Cadfael character once in a while, or an honest religion actor--something you do see in Dark Souls, but the clerics aren't all honest devotion to the good. The frequent reading of religion in game is quite close to Dostoevsky in The Grand Inquisitor, and that is worth a read (and is also quite short and easy to find) to better appreciate the organised church as totalitarian vehicle idea.
On the presentation of religious actors, I do worry that it will become quite predictable and eventually stale in the medium for them all to be cast in the negative, as villains, templars, evil clerics. I don't mind a Cadfael character once in a while, or an honest religion actor--something you do see in Dark Souls, but the clerics aren't all honest devotion to the good. The frequent reading of religion in game is quite close to Dostoevsky in The Grand Inquisitor, and that is worth a read (and is also quite short and easy to find) to better appreciate the organised church as totalitarian vehicle idea.
Yes...it's problematic that religion is being equated to violence in video games because religion in real life is totally non-violent.
*reads up on the crusades, the third reich, the spanish inquisition, the salem witch trials, the war on terror, the troubles, the taiping rebellion, and several other wars/slaughters*
Ohhhhhhh.........
*reads up on the crusades, the third reich, the spanish inquisition, the salem witch trials, the war on terror, the troubles, the taiping rebellion, and several other wars/slaughters*
Ohhhhhhh.........
Religion
Weapons
Politics
All three are fine on their own, but if you mix any two of them, you're going to have big problems. Mixing all three is a REALLY big problem
If you notice, all games feature a mix of two or three of those subjects. But yea, religion is an issue in many games because while people can debate and change their mind about political issues, the religious can't consider anything but their beliefs an option.
Weapons
Politics
All three are fine on their own, but if you mix any two of them, you're going to have big problems. Mixing all three is a REALLY big problem
If you notice, all games feature a mix of two or three of those subjects. But yea, religion is an issue in many games because while people can debate and change their mind about political issues, the religious can't consider anything but their beliefs an option.
Oh boy, here come the atheist quotes from the Bible and the theist 'you're misinterpreting it' posts...
Makes sense, religion is an easy target. And not in the sense of the modern day debate around it, but that it's really easy to construct an 'evil' faction focused around faith. Think about it, you can basically have your villains ignore legitimate reasoning and use their religion as a justification for all their actions. Take Seymour from Final Fantasy 10, his plan is completely bat-shit insane and stupid when viewed from an objective, secularist viewpoint. But then throw in that wacky state religion and all of a sudden 'he's just a religious wacko' seems like legitimate character motivation to some players (not me, but some).
Makes sense, religion is an easy target. And not in the sense of the modern day debate around it, but that it's really easy to construct an 'evil' faction focused around faith. Think about it, you can basically have your villains ignore legitimate reasoning and use their religion as a justification for all their actions. Take Seymour from Final Fantasy 10, his plan is completely bat-shit insane and stupid when viewed from an objective, secularist viewpoint. But then throw in that wacky state religion and all of a sudden 'he's just a religious wacko' seems like legitimate character motivation to some players (not me, but some).
Treblaine said:
Yep, TOOOOOTALLY based around violence. >_>
OT: I myself am religious and while I do not deny that a lot of harm has been done in the name of religion (which is also overblown and used as a scapegoat for other motivations; power, wealth, non-religious hatred, etc.), it is rather disheartening to see a near-absence of positive religious characters. Is it too much to ask for a good shepherd every so often? I'm not asking for religion to be crammed down the player's throats, but it would be nice to run across someone with religious beliefs who wasn't part of some antagonistic organization or didn't have negative ulterior motives.
Oh, so you are telling me there is no concept of Hell as a place of eternal torture in the Bible? And how you will be sent there if you don't do certain arbitrary things beyond just being a good person?Azuaron said:
Anyway, I'm not using the bible for this basis because NEITHER DOES CHRISTIANITY! Almost every denomination (including my former denomination) not only picks and chooses which part of the bible they want to follow but every translation has been hugely and unscrupulously adulterated. From all this I was told by a priest that hell awaits those who don't follow the guidance of the bible, THAT is where I get this from.
If Christianity was JUST about the bible, then why do churches exist for priests to give sermons? Why isn't the sole message just "read the bible"?
They hide behind the bible, cherry picking what supports their organisations contemporary whims and defend the bible as infallible. It's artificial legitimacy. The homophobia seen in the modern church does not come from god. It comes from people, who look for excuses in the bible.
If you want to turn a reasonable Christian atheist, get them to actually read the entire bible rather than have select passages read to them and "interpreted" by the priestly hierarchy.
I have not read the entirety of the modern English translations of the bible as used by the Anglican Church. I have not read the Torah either. Nor the Qu'ran, nor Sruti of Hinduism, nor Svetambara of Jainism. Nor the Homeric Hyms of greek mythology, nor Dianetics of Scientology. All claim to have universal significance but none have a shred of evidence to convince me to read them. I read Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code and decided that was a waste of my time, so why bother with all those?
He probably failed to notice religion being portrayed normally or positively because it doesn't fucking stand out when it does.
Did he not notice the fact that The Nines are openly worshipped in Cyrodill and most of the world of the Elder Scrolls? And nothing really bad comes of them? Hell, you even get bonuses for praying at their Shrines? As opposed to the main cult who worships the Deadra Lord of Assholes and Douches?
Assassin's Creed the 1st is set during the damn Crusades. They were carried expressly for the purpose of religious violence. Derp. And if he paid attention, the Templars aren't actually religious in AC - they just use the Church because it became one of the most effective means of achieving their goal.
FF13....the religion isn't the problem. Its that the Big Head God and his main lackey are jealous, insecure Mommy-issue jerkasses who have to force others to do their bidding in order to get things done, which in turn causes the other gods to have to try and stop them...by being jerkasses themselves........
......
....
Ok, maybe FF13 does make it an issue.
Did he not notice the fact that The Nines are openly worshipped in Cyrodill and most of the world of the Elder Scrolls? And nothing really bad comes of them? Hell, you even get bonuses for praying at their Shrines? As opposed to the main cult who worships the Deadra Lord of Assholes and Douches?
Assassin's Creed the 1st is set during the damn Crusades. They were carried expressly for the purpose of religious violence. Derp. And if he paid attention, the Templars aren't actually religious in AC - they just use the Church because it became one of the most effective means of achieving their goal.
FF13....the religion isn't the problem. Its that the Big Head God and his main lackey are jealous, insecure Mommy-issue jerkasses who have to force others to do their bidding in order to get things done, which in turn causes the other gods to have to try and stop them...by being jerkasses themselves........
......
....
Ok, maybe FF13 does make it an issue.
Of course we portray it as violent. Organized Imaginary Friend Stores (Churches, Mosques, Synagogues) have never done any good in history. These businesses have spent thousands of years trying to sell ignorance and an invisible product, all whilst telling people that their friends with different values, views or imaginary friends are wrong and in some cases need to die.
To be fair how do you represent religion in a non-violent game? You'd probably have to resort to a mass simulator.
Don't forget Thane praying before and after missions. And I suppose there is some commentary in the Hanar worshipping the Protheans, who canonically are just another race killed by the Reapers, and from a historical standpoint, Jesus was just a leader who splintered from and created a variation of Judaism.soren7550 said:
Wait, the new DLC character is a Prothean...
OMG JESUS ALLEGORY!