Suicide Squad was awesome, critics high on crack

[JUMBO PALACE]

I'm more inclined to believe the critics after the train wreck that was BvS. I turned to my girlfriend halfway through, looked her in the eye and said "I hate this." Her response was a relieved "oh thank god" because she was worried it was only her. I would love to find out how bad Suicide Squad is (or find out I'm completely wrong and I love it) but I just don't want to give WB any more of my money. I'm holding out hope for Wonder Woman and Affleck's Batman film though. And Justice League looks like it could be fun as well.

I feel so conflicted about the whole thing. I love DC and its characters and I would love for these movies to be great because I would love to get as excited about them as I do about Marvel movies. But right now I'm at best indifferent and at worst snarkily satisfied that I saw this coming.

 

[EHKOS]

I lost my shit when it played three different well known tracks one right after the other. They clearly spent all the budget on the soundtrack and marketing.
It's laughably bad, and the Joker has about three minutes of screen time. The popcorn isn't for watching the movie, it's for watching the movie fail and the fallout from it.

Spoiler

They're suiting up and the most baffling cut of "Without Me" by Eminem starts playing for about ten seconds.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

http://observer.com/2016/08/just-released-script-for-suicide-squad-deleted-scene/

Okay I had to post this, 'cause it makes me laugh so much.
If you want to know what the problems with the movie are, this parody encapsulates all of them.

 

[Glongpre]

Like Leto's Joker I'd never imagine is competent, let alone skillful, enough to kill Robin.

I believe it says that Harley helped kill Robin, so you are more or less correct. He wasn't able to do it himself.

Plot twist: Harley is the brains behind their operation, an inverse of their comic relationship.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

I'm going to see it tomorrow with some friends I haven't seen in a while, so we'll see. There have been enough people saying it's at least alright that I'm willing to chance it.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

http://observer.com/2016/08/just-released-script-for-suicide-squad-deleted-scene/

Okay I had to post this, 'cause it makes me laugh so much.
If you want to know what the problems with the movie are, this parody encapsulates all of them.

Dude I was actually hoping it was a leaked script of the original portrayal of the movie

 

[CaitSeith]

However, when the film hit, it proved to be a phenomenal summer flick, and most likely a very lucrative one. Indeed, it was one of the best action flicks in years.

This created questions. If the film was so good, then why did critics hate it?

I don't know. Why did the critics hate Transformers 2? It has 19% in Rotten Tomatoes; and yet it made 836.3 million dollars in box office worldwide! Surely they were high or drunk to be condemning one of the best action flicks of 2009!

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

http://observer.com/2016/08/just-released-script-for-suicide-squad-deleted-scene/

Okay I had to post this, 'cause it makes me laugh so much.
If you want to know what the problems with the movie are, this parody encapsulates all of them.

#actuallyprettyfunny

It's not that Man of Steel had too much building punching. It's that Zack Snyder doesn't understand Superman as a character.

Superman is one of the harder characters to get right. Partly because of the difficulties in humanising an invulnerable flying sun-god, and partly because of the weight of everyone's expectations about what "Superman" is.

I like to think there's some leeway for writers to do their own interpretation or version of the character that deconstructs or reconstructs the core elements of their personality. Red Son, for example, gave us a Superman who tried to take over the world in the name of socialism. The Dark Knight Returns gave us a Superman who had essentially become a government stooge. All-Star Superman gave us a Superman who was literally the second coming of Christ.

They're all different, but they're all Superman, and I like to think there's room for Man of Steel's Superman in there. A Superman who's never tested the limits of his powers, who doesn't fully understand the destruction he's capable of, and who - in general - fights like a Kansas farmboy.

He improves significantly in BvS; when he catches Lois, I was impressed because he actually matches speed with her, which is how catching a falling person would actually work. And with Doomsday, as soon as he's exchanged a couple of blows with him and gauged his strength, he just tackles him straight upwards into space. That might be enough for you, it might not; it was for me.

If your "Superman" wouldn't do this [http://whatculture.com/film/10-great-comic-book-moments-that-should-be-in-a-movie?page=8], then you've failed as a Superman creator.

That girl would see and reach out to Zack Snyder's version who watches her fall, swoops in a microsecond too late, and mopes that he couldn't save her. At least, that's what I gather from the part where he lets Zod throw an oil truck at him and doesn't even try to catch it, instead letting it explode behind him. Or when flood victims are reaching out to him from their roof and he's just farting around in the sky because they can wait.

He does actually save a girl from a factory fire, you know. And she's alive and fine; she didn't die of smoke inhalation or get crushed to death in his clumsy pincer-hands or anything.

I always read the oil truck scene as Superman just not knowing what to do in this situation. He actually turns around to look at the explosion as if he's thinking "Shit, I should've caught that instead of just dodging" and then Zod sucker-punches him while he's distracted. Granted, that's me reading things into it.

I had the exact same thought with the flood people, by the way. "No, don't help them or anything. Just hover in the sky to emphasise your semi-divine nature. It's not like you're faster than a speeding bullet or anything."

The only worse source to adapt would be Frank Miller-style grim-dark; oh gee, look what we had earlier this year.

Man, people need to stop bashing on Frank Miller.

The guy basically invented the entire concept of "What if Batman and Superman fought?" He's responsible for codifying so much shit about the character that we don't even realise they didn't exist before then - he was the first guy to have Batman use a grappling hook gun, and the first guy to interpret the Batmobile as anything other than a really fast car. He killed Jason Todd before Jason Todd existed as a character. And don't get me started on Year One.

All-Star Batman and Robin sucked. We get it. But it didn't suck so much that it turned back time and shat all over his previous work.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

To be fair, that parody scene would have been amazing in the actual movie. It'd help explain Waller's massive incompetence and ineptitude.
But rest assured there are enough deleted scenes to make for dozens of plot wholes. I'd hazard a guess that 2/3rds of the scenes actually filmed didn't make it into the movie. That the movie was literally put together in post, with dozens of random scenes shot in reaction to social media based viral marketing.

 

[kris40k]

http://observer.com/2016/08/just-released-script-for-suicide-squad-deleted-scene/

Okay I had to post this, 'cause it makes me laugh so much.
If you want to know what the problems with the movie are, this parody encapsulates all of them.

Which I also had a problem with this because of what they ended up doing for the big bad. It could have been resolved if they actually used a few minutes to show the Squad doing what the Squad does. Like maybe a couple minutes of them in a foreign country taking out an enemy of the US who is also a Meta and leaving the bodies of him and his soldiers stacked like cord wood. Shit the Flash and Batman would not do at the beck and call of the US Gov.

Spoiler

Once that has been established, have Enchantress go rogue and continue from there.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

That would have been so cool! Just get 2 or 3 low tier villains, like...Red King, Manbat, and I dunno, LiveWire and have the squad kill them and their minions in little flashbacks. And that's a great way to show how the squad both comes together, and what they do.

 

[Einspanner]

I'm sure the marketing and PR departments that got this "fuck RT" and similar things going feel monumentally smug right now. Instead of apologizing to their most loyal and extreme fans for not meeting their expectations, they've cashed in on their cognitive dissonance and turned them into marketeers!

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I'm sure the marketing and PR departments that got this "fuck RT" and similar things going feel monumentally smug right now. Instead of apologizing to their most loyal and extreme fans for not meeting their expectations, they've cashed in on their cognitive dissonance and turned them into marketeers!

I'm super tired at the moment, so correct me if I'm wrong, but cognitive dissonance is where a person holds two contradictory opinions and it causes subconscious mental stress. I don't get how it applies here because there's nothing contradictory about the statements "Fuck Rotten Tomatoes" and "I liked Suicide Squad". They're complentary, in fact.

Sorry in advance for being pedantic.

The mistakes of the past are, if anything, the opposite of an excuse to make more mistakes; and my place for Pa "Your secret and a dog's life are both more important than mine" Kent is in the garbage because I am so generous. In fact, I'd go so far as to say every mainstream version of Superman yet made has been inherently flawed by his insistence on lying to everyone with his "Clark Kent" facade, which I presume to be a hold-over from that insane time in our culture where weirdness was something to hide. I'd prefer that he be open with both his upbringing (to be actually heroic, by the way) and heritage and ask everyone to let him continue his Earth life. Lex could even be the typical hateful prick to uses his wealth to manipulate politics against Superman.

Well, they've basically dumped Superman's secret identity as of BvS because...they literally killed Clark Kent. His obituary is in the newspaper copy that Perry White is looking at during the wrap-up.

It wasn't a very good secret identity to start with; Lex Luthor and probably Bruce Wayne figured it out within a year and a half, and it's implied the members of the Planet who survived Zod's invasion know who Clark Kent is and just don't care. (Which makes Perry White's scenes with Clark in BvS either much more confusing or much, much more interesting.)

After all, "heroes against each other" is only a selling point of their motives make sense and there's nothing less logical than hypocrisy.

This was the only part of that, um, rant that I thought I could respond to, but...hypocrisy doesn't invalidate the logic of an argument. An appeal to hypocrisy is, in fact, a common logical fallacy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque].

Hypocrisy is when a person fails to act in accordance with their own argument's logical conclusions. It doesn't invalidate the argument at all because, when you think about it, whether or not a person actually practices what they preach has no logical bearing on the validity of what they're preaching.

Sorry. I don't know what it is with me right now, I must get more pedantic as I get less decent sleep.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Okay question on the plot, so spoilers

Spoiler

When the Squad finds Waller in her top secret command bunker, she pulls out a gun and shoots all her techs. Deadshot and what's his face are all like "Damn, ***** be cold!" and she be like "They weren't cleared to know about this operation." and...and then they walk away, apparently satisfied.
Hold up!
Why did Amanda Waller, who despite all evidence to the contrary, is supposed to be very calculated and smart, staff her emergency Black Ops command bunker with techs who weren't cleared to know about Black Ops?! And she's on the comm with the Pentagon the whole time too! Did the Joint Chiefs watch her gun down her entire team and just go "Well, our fault for assigning Geek Squad guys to the highest level Government Operations positions."
And why the fuck did she have a separate command bunker from the Pentagon anyway?! What, are they not even cleared to know what their own assets are doing?

 

[Orga777]

Yeah. Nothing I hear about this movie sounds very good to me. It sounds like the studio butchered the movie into something unrecognizable from those re-shoots that made everything significantly worse. Especially after reading about what was cut. I am pretty sure WB really has no idea what they are doing and are just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks without any real thought or plan in place like Marvel does. They are trying way too hard, and it doesn't seem like they want an entertaining universe. If that Wonder Woman trailer wasn't so good, I would have lost all interest in their whole movie universe because of how poor a state it is in right now. Even the Justice League trailer didn't really inspire me. It is a shame, too since DC has better characters than Marvel, especially with their villains.

 

[kris40k]

Okay question on the plot, so spoilers

Spoiler

When the Squad finds Waller in her top secret command bunker, she pulls out a gun and shoots all her techs. Deadshot and what's his face are all like "Damn, ***** be cold!" and she be like "They weren't cleared to know about this operation." and...and then they walk away, apparently satisfied.
Hold up!
Why did Amanda Waller, who despite all evidence to the contrary, is supposed to be very calculated and smart, staff her emergency Black Ops command bunker with techs who weren't cleared to know about Black Ops?! And she's on the comm with the Pentagon the whole time too! Did the Joint Chiefs watch her gun down her entire team and just go "Well, our fault for assigning Geek Squad guys to the highest level Government Operations positions."
And why the fuck did she have a separate command bunker from the Pentagon anyway?! What, are they not even cleared to know what their own assets are doing?

Spoiler: Well, mostly likely, bad writing in an attempt to...

A) make Waller look like a cold-blooded badass while at the same time B) getting rid of a bunch of extras so they don't have to haul them around for the rest of the movie. The other option was to have them get killed by the monsters.

My head canon excuse is that Waller was planning on killing everyone to coverup her colossal fuck-up of a first attempt at the squad. They were cleared, she just didn't want lose ends and the excuse was believable enough for Deadshot and Flag. She was probably going to waste the squad as well once she got out.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Okay question on the plot, so spoilers

Spoiler

When the Squad finds Waller in her top secret command bunker, she pulls out a gun and shoots all her techs. Deadshot and what's his face are all like "Damn, ***** be cold!" and she be like "They weren't cleared to know about this operation." and...and then they walk away, apparently satisfied.
Hold up!
Why did Amanda Waller, who despite all evidence to the contrary, is supposed to be very calculated and smart, staff her emergency Black Ops command bunker with techs who weren't cleared to know about Black Ops?! And she's on the comm with the Pentagon the whole time too! Did the Joint Chiefs watch her gun down her entire team and just go "Well, our fault for assigning Geek Squad guys to the highest level Government Operations positions."
And why the fuck did she have a separate command bunker from the Pentagon anyway?! What, are they not even cleared to know what their own assets are doing?

Spoiler: Well, mostly likely, bad writing in an attempt to...

A) make Waller look like a cold-blooded badass while at the same time B) getting rid of a bunch of extras so they don't have to haul them around for the rest of the movie. The other option was to have them get killed by the monsters.

My head canon excuse is that Waller was planning on killing everyone to coverup her colossal fuck-up of a first attempt at the squad. They were cleared, she just didn't want lose ends and the excuse was believable enough for Deadshot and Flag. She was probably going to waste the squad as well once she got out.

Spoiler

Just have half of the tech killed by the Joker and his minigun, and the other half die in the helicopter crash that followed.
The entire shoot-em-dead scene was pointless, and while it made have characterized Waller as a cold *****(despite the fact that had already been established like ten times), it was at the cost of a massive plot hole! Not least of which is why did Waller have a separate command post than the pentagon where she was shown to spend most of her time.